Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well since my beginnings as a war gamer and the first time I set foot in the local GW store (sadly no longer around) I have not really cared too much for space marines. Im not sure exactly what it is about them maybe that it was like the first army they tried to get me to buy, or just the general attitude that other space marine players in that store would display. What I would simply like to know are some dakka users INTELLIGENT and MATURE thoughts on these guys.

For the longest time, I didn't want anything to do with Space Marines, but after I'd gotten Eldar, CSM, IG and dabbled in a couple others, I ended up jumping on board with SM.

I started out as standard 3E min/max Marines, then they were kind of aimless in 4th. Now that GW is specializing the various SM, I've decided on playing under Blood Angels Codex.

JohnHwangDD wrote:For the longest time, I didn't want anything to do with Space Marines, but after I'd gotten Eldar, CSM, IG and dabbled in a couple others, I ended up jumping on board with SM.

I started out as standard 3E min/max Marines, then they were kind of aimless in 4th. Now that GW is specializing the various SM, I've decided on playing under Blood Angels Codex.

Thats interesting. Ive started out and continue IG and when things clear up financially for me I would like to explore the Tau actually

If you have shooty GEQs, why do you need more shooty GEQs?

JohnHwangDD wrote:If you have shooty GEQs, why do you need more shooty GEQs?

Lol seriously IDK the Tau just really interest me with all the techy stuff they have

OK, just curious.

Some people look down on SM simply because they're GW's star seller. Others look down on them because they're relatively forgiving to play (3+ sv). Still others dislike them due to special rules ala SW/BT. I'm sure there are more reasons.

Me? I like SM. Everything's available to purchase so I don't "need" to convert half my army just to field it. The conversions I do are for flavor and add to the army. Being able to utilize several rules sets with the same army is icing on the cake.

I'd play DE if they had 1/2 decent models...

YMMV as certain aspects of SM do not apply to everyone. If you like them, play them. If not, pick another army and game on.

Flagg07 wrote:Some people look down on SM simply because they're GW's star seller. Others look down on them because they're relatively forgiving to play (3+ sv). Still others dislike them due to special rules ala SW/BT. I'm sure there are more reasons.

Me? I like SM. Everything's available to purchase so I don't "need" to convert half my army just to field it. The conversions I do are for flavor and add to the army. Being able to utilize several rules sets with the same army is icing on the cake.

I'd play DE if they had 1/2 decent models...

YMMV as certain aspects of SM do not apply to everyone. If you like them, play them. If not, pick another army and game on.

Yeah I get what your saying. Some "Hardcore" players like in music dont like the "mainstream" army. The challenge they present while playing them is not exactly what I like either

Jon Touchdown wrote:

Flagg07 wrote:Some people look down on SM simply because they're GW's star seller. Others look down on them because they're relatively forgiving to play (3+ sv). Still others dislike them due to special rules ala SW/BT. I'm sure there are more reasons.

Me? I like SM. Everything's available to purchase so I don't "need" to convert half my army just to field it. The conversions I do are for flavor and add to the army. Being able to utilize several rules sets with the same army is icing on the cake.

I'd play DE if they had 1/2 decent models...

YMMV as certain aspects of SM do not apply to everyone. If you like them, play them. If not, pick another army and game on.

Yeah I get what your saying. Some "Hardcore" players like in music dont like the "mainstream" army. The challenge they present while playing them is not exactly what I like either

Sm are a core/essential part of the fluff/setting and iconic symbols of the Imperium.

Not wanting to collect/play them is understandable; heck we all have different tastes and different things appeal to us.

hating on them as an army or hating on those that choose to represent thta part of the 40K universe beyond that is just dumb pure and simple. it's like saying you don't like jedi in Star Wars. Without them you lose half the background, story, action and point of the movies...

After mowing down space marines with my "pure" Grey Knights in 3rd, and Eldar in 4th, and having had no time to play in 5th...

It will be nice to play as them once I finish building my Battle Company, Scout Company, Ancients Assault Force, and various other Apocalypse data sheets.

...mind you, I need to scratchbuild thunderhawks and rhino chasis - but that's just a drop in the bucket!

CT GAMER wrote:

Jon Touchdown wrote:

Flagg07 wrote:Some people look down on SM simply because they're GW's star seller. Others look down on them because they're relatively forgiving to play (3+ sv). Still others dislike them due to special rules ala SW/BT. I'm sure there are more reasons.

Me? I like SM. Everything's available to purchase so I don't "need" to convert half my army just to field it. The conversions I do are for flavor and add to the army. Being able to utilize several rules sets with the same army is icing on the cake.

I'd play DE if they had 1/2 decent models...

YMMV as certain aspects of SM do not apply to everyone. If you like them, play them. If not, pick another army and game on.

Yeah I get what your saying. Some "Hardcore" players like in music dont like the "mainstream" army. The challenge they present while playing them is not exactly what I like either

Sm are a core/essential part of the fluff/setting and iconic symbols of the Imperium.

Not wanting to collect/play them is understandable; heck we all have different tastes and different things appeal to us.

hating on them as an army or hating on those that choose to represent thta part of the 40K universe beyond that is just dumb pure and simple. it's like saying you don't like jedi in Star Wars. Without them you lose half the background, story, action and point of the movies...

True stuff right there. I dont hate them they just dont suit my tastes and every time I have encountered a SM player they have been cocky to the point where they are verbally attacking all other armies the entire time and I have lost an important game due to my SM partner's over the top barbaric playing style and his refusal to use stupid IG tactics

I have gone through 5 marine armies since I started. I like them.

I don't like the fact that GW tries to shove them down your throat. How many marine codexs are there? There needs to be more of a balance with the way dex's are done... and the way GW markets thier products IMO.

I kinda just hate the Imperial side of things (except the Inquistion). I have CSM, Daemons, and Eldar and they seem infinitely cooler and less... straightforward. SM and Guard just seem super boring to me cuz they're so much what they are if that makes any sense. CSM are kinda the same thing anyway though.

And in regards to the previous comment, I do hate Jedi as well as Optimus Prime. You're either there to fight or your rallying for peace, not a some funky-ass hybrid of the two that just leaves your own men vulnerable. Trying to get yourself killed is hardly heroic, it's just stupid.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

And in regards to the previous comment, I do hate Jedi as well as Optimus Prime. You're either there to fight or your rallying for peace, not a some funky-ass hybrid of the two that just leaves your own men vulnerable. Trying to get yourself killed is hardly heroic, it's just stupid.

Your missing the point. Without Jedi or space marines each setting loses a vital element of it's setting/story arc. I don't want to play marines, but I like to fight them with my "evil aliens" (Tyranid sand orks) purely for the symbolism of alien vs. man, etc.

I only say I hate SM, partly because its just fun to. For me tho, they just BORE me. Ive tried painting them, I even played as them for a short period of time, I just cant get motivated to liking them. I completely understand why GW pushes them so hard. They are easy sellers, and make loads of cash. Cmon, "they are super human destroyers that are over 7 feet tall. A small number of them, can hold off a much larger force AND, did I mention they are 7 feet tall?!" Insert the cash register sound lol

As Iv said before, Dark Angels just appealed to me. The entire back story is what drew me in. I thank god the staff member at a game store told me to look into the back story of each army, and choose from there, and I preach it to every new player.

I know they are the big star of GW, but I dont care, most of the time its ultramarines anyways.

Plus I suck at painting flesh, so more armor means less flesh (which is obvious due to the lack of exposed heads in my army)

Space marines have always been my favorite army. I've built 4 marine armies of different kinds over the years, 5 if you count chaos marines. I currently have a Blood Angel and a Space Wolf army, but also have Eldar and Chaos Marines. It was the look of the power armor that initially drew me in, that and the various chapter insignias which I used to draw in the margins of my notes when I was in college. It's still mostly an aesthetic choice for me when it comes to them. I just like the way space marine armor and vehicles look.

That said, I think they are pushed by GW a little too much, but from a business standpoint I think they see it as responding to demand. People buy more space marines than anything else so from a purely business standpoint why not give them more of what they seem to want or have shown with their purchases they are interested in? None of that is saying space marines are all that much better than any other army out there, just that they resonate with a large segment of GW's market. It's too bad that we'll never know what another army would be like if they pushed them as hard. The focus on Space Marines has skewed the universe such that they show as much or more diversity than entire races.

It sort of feeds on itself after awhile, Space marine variants need less overall development time because the bulk of the line can be used as is. An extra parts sprue here and there plus a codex is a lot cheaper to rationalize than 3-4 new plastic kits and a codex in terms of startup costs etc. The return on investment for marine items goes well beyond the popularity of a given chapter, if the parts are nice or unique enough many players will buy the sprue regardless of who it is designed for.

Within the context of the universe marines are superheroes, fighting against all odds in small groups to hold back the tide of destruction. That appeals to a lot of people, plus well painted marine armies look really good on a tabletop so there's a show factor that orcs or guard might not have to the same degree to the casual observer.

All of that aside, GW spends too much development time on marines. While I'm not sure that a single codex would adequately cover all the marines, grouping the alternates together would remove 1-2 books from the cycle freeing up time for Xenos races or Ad. Mech/Inquisition or something new. I think an Angels of Death Style codex covering DA and BA and another book covering Wolves/Templars would still give adequate space for detailing these chapters and making them different from codex chapters.

Part of the issue is GW's codex development cycle to begin with though. While I doubt that they will change it anytime soon it's this main factor that causes most of the strife. When you are generally waiting 5-10 years for a new version of your army it's easy to get extremely frustrated at every book that lies between now and the one you want. It also means that releases for your army are few and far between while a lot of things you aren't very interested in come out.

As an army Space Marines are one of the easiest armies to learn the game with, their stats and abilities make them more forgiving or easier to wrap one's head around than say Tyranids or Eldar. They also tend to be small to medium sized armies with few if any hard to transport models. So basically space marines are easy, easy to buy, easy to build, easy to market, easy to sell, easy to learn and easy to play. That doesn't mean that they aren't worthwhile or that everyone who plays them is immature just that due to alot of factors they are, despite what they should be, the default in 40k.

I've been around the game since Rogue Trader and Space Marines just seem to draw people into the game in ways that other races do not. I think factors outside the game may start to affect this but it is difficult to see it changing any time soon.

i read through all the omnibus before i made my decision on ultras. i play them because i like their fluff. i read other races but not as cool. i want to make a soul drinker army though. the fact that gw spoon feeds us marine is just a perk..... hate their 18 to 25% increase on prices across the board during a depression. not buying ultras anymore, i would like a thunder fire but 50+ bucks for a two piece model is robbery. going to change to an elder bike army, seems like the least expensive army to make.

Playing as Space Marines is just fun for me. I like the Master Chief and Boba Fett too, and they are both BA genetically engineered warriors, so it is a trend.

KingCracker wrote:I only say I hate SM, partly because its just fun to. For me tho, they just BORE me. Ive tried painting them, I even played as them for a short period of time, I just cant get motivated to liking them. I completely understand why GW pushes them so hard. They are easy sellers, and make loads of cash. Cmon, "they are super human destroyers that are over 7 feet tall. A small number of them, can hold off a much larger force AND, did I mention they are 7 feet tall?!" Insert the cash register sound lol

Lol Ive tried reading and playing them but I just cant really relate to them the way I would like. I like the struggle of the IG and how if I think about it If eldar showed up tomorrow Id be holding a lasgun lol.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Playing as Space Marines is just fun for me. I like the Master Chief and Boba Fett too, and they are both BA genetically engineered warriors, so it is a trend.

I do like the Master chief myself but in the entire Halo series the marines always interested me more. Without them humanity would have been crushed and their would have been no war

The biggest problem I have with marines is the boredom.

"Oh look! space marines! How cool!" is something the newbs get to say for about 2 weeks.

After 10 years "Oh look, more stupid badly painted marines. the paint is so boring they get a bonus cover save because no one cares....'

So, my goal is to make a marine army, that people look at and say 'Those guys are friggin awesome!' but theyre probly in line behind my orks and chaos....but you never know when my army mood will change....

I like the Space Marines.

Yeah, they're a bandwagon type thing, but they just look real cool to me WHEN DONE CORRECTLY

If I did play Marines (and I probably will, they look real cool) I'd go for the Imperial Fists.

The Fluff behind these guys is amazing as well.

Still, I'll probably run my Orks, Start up my long awaited Eldar army or Daemonhunters before them....

THe Imperial Fists are great. Nothing like super advanced warriors with technology giving them highly mobile options and deployment ability, that choose to defend castle walls and trenches

Cryonicleech wrote:If I did play Marines (and I probably will, they look real cool) I'd go for the Imperial Fists.

The Fluff behind these guys is amazing as well.

Amazing?

As in their Primarch being stupid enough to lose nearly the entire Chapter to a well-planned trap by the Iron Warriors?

"FOR THE EMPORER!"

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:If I did play Marines (and I probably will, they look real cool) I'd go for the Imperial Fists.

The Fluff behind these guys is amazing as well.

Amazing?

As in their Primarch being stupid enough to lose nearly the entire Chapter to a well-planned trap by the Iron Warriors?

"FOR THE EMPORER!"

Did you ever see the Last Samurai? The Iron Cage is like the charge at the end. They lost, but it was meant to be a fall on your sword loss. The Iron Warriors outsmarted them, and they chose to give the survivors of the Siege a chance to die as part of the Imperial Fist Legion, instead of the Imperial Fist Chapter. The Ultramarines and Imperial Fists were actually participating in the Scouring together during these times (and not infighting like many think) and Guilliman let Dorn have his 'last hurrah' with his legion. When it went pear shaped he jumped in to keep another Legion from losing a Primarch.

Just look at the stats of the Space Marines. They're apparently balanced and usually a bit stronger than normal stuff. I started this game with Space Marines back in 2005, there was no GW in the area at all. They seemed alright, easy to hit and kill stuff with them. Easy to stop them from dieing. I gave up on the game after a while, but started playing again near the beginning of this year. They're still alright, but they kind of get boring to play after a while. So I'm going to start a Tau army.

It's not really about how good the stats are, its how fun the army is to use. Space Marines are real easy to learn the game with, the downfall is that they'll make the more normal guys seem crappy for a while. Space Marines are really just the learner army, the varients try to add some difference to using them. But, in the end playing Space Marines is kind of like playing on easy. Some people just like them for that, others just like them because of the armour or whatever reason.

Different strokes for different folks. A lot of you say they're boring, simple, basic and other more rude things. But to me they're a tactically flexible and exciting army to play with fluff that I really like and a look that never gets old.

If marines aren't for you then fine, just move on to the army that suits you. No reason to sit there bashing someone else for their choice.

What are space marines?

Maybe if you ignore them the will go away like 50 cent.

Honestly I like Space Marines. They are definitely the most iconic symbol of Warhammer 40,000. I think the fluff is really cool, and the miniatures aren't bad either. I think a lot of the hate for space marines is because a lot of the younger folks play them, and often get carried away with why the fluff doesn't translate onto the battlefield. But, playing Dawn of War/ watching any of the latest game trailers absolutely makes you love the space marines.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:I'd go for the Imperial Fists.

The Fluff behind these guys is amazing as well.

Amazing?

As in their Primarch being stupid enough to lose nearly the entire Chapter to a well-planned trap by the Iron Warriors?

Did you ever see the Last Samurai? The Iron Cage is like the charge at the end. They lost, but it was meant to be a fall on your sword loss.

Yeah, I know.

It's just that the Imperial Fists are pretty much the poster boys for "even the Emperor had a slowed son".
- supposed siege masters, but clearly and obviously inferior to the Iron Warriors (who easily tore down the IF defenses on Terra separate from the Iron Cage)
- Primarch characterized by extreme stupidity in losing 4 Companies for no good reason
- Primarch lacking the balls to stand up for his own Legion
- Primarch kissing Roboute's butt and becoming a Codex poster boy

PURE FAIL.

In the far future of 40k, the Imperial Fists are the one chapter I simply cannot respect.