Dashofpepper wrote:There we go, something worth critiquing.
1. Are your boys shoota boyz or slugga boyz?
2. I don't believe a Big Mek with a
KFF should ever be taking cybork body. That's 5 points that you shouldn't ever use. Use those 5 points and give him 'Eavy armor so that he has a 4+ save instead. If someone shoots at your boyz on the ground, put the wounds elsewhere. If you're in close combat with the big mek (for some reason?) just keep him out of base contact and no one can target him. When you unload your battlewagons, leave the big mek on there.
-Difficult to do: As the Big Mek is an
IC, whenever he reacts to an assault or piles in, he must be moved first. (p 49). Cybork Body may give him some added protection.
YMMV
3. Cybork bodies are also overrated for your nobs. They NEED 'Eavy armor to go with the painboy. It costs the same as Cybork and gives you a 4+ and a second 4+ instead of a 5+ and a 4+. Look at it this way: Your nobs will be in a vehicle, not getting shot at. If they're not in a vehicle its because they either got shot out of it, or they disembarked and are charging into close combat. If they got shot out of it, you're in wreckage, which gives a 4+ cover save...still no need for a 5+ invulnerable. You can move into and out of cover to stay safe. That means the only time you need cybork bodies is in close combat against power weapons. If you play intelligently, you won't assault things that will kill you outright. For example, if you see a squad of 10 terminators or something crazy that has all power weapons / lightning klaws / other, you can send in something to tie them up for a turn (killa kan / deff dread / Ghazghkull on the Waaaugh! / other), then assault the following turn where they can't put all their attacks on your nobs. Just play smart and you don't need cybork bodies.
-On a result of 5 on the damage chart, the Nobz will disembark from the vehicle and take a pinning test, not stay in the wreckage. If they later move into the wreckage, it is also considered Dangerous Terrain. On a '6' result on the damage chart, yes, the Nobz will be placed where the vehicle once was and get a 4+ cover save (p. 67). Cybork bodies are still situational in my opinion. Getting stuck in an assault with something that insta kills Nobz (very likely) is causing 2 wounds for every insta kill hit (typically). Take your big Nob unit into a unit of Termies w/ Thunderhammer and Stormshield, and you will notice how bad your Nobz are off in that situation. And these guys aren't so rare, especially with the Vulcan Salamander lists coming out.
4. I've done significant experimenting with Stikkbomb chukkas, and it pans out like this: Even on the assault, you're initiative 3, so stikkbombs or not....you're still going last. Not worth it.
-Can be worth it for Nobz as they will be I4 on the charge.
-Situational for normal Boyz.
5. Deffrolla - since it has no
AP value, its only real value is in smacking up vehicles, which is a hotly contested idea. I've taken to calling ahead of time to a tournament organizer, or talking in advance with an opponent for a friendly game. If its allowed, they go on my battlewagon, if they aren't, then they get subbed out for a reinforced ram.
-Agreed, but still useful for contesting your opponent's objectives late game. Folks don't want to try and Death or Glory a Battlewagon w/ Deff Rolla.
-If anything, at least have a Reinforced Ram.
6. I think you need less power klaws and more Big choppas. Also, you should distinguish them individually so that each nob is a seperate wound group. That means that it takes 11 wounds before a single nob dies. Here's my favorite configuration:
1. Painboy
2. Boss pole
3. Waaaugh! Banner
4. Power klaw
5. Power Klaw / Ammo Runt
6. Power Klaw / Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa / Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa / Skorcha
10. Normal Nob
I stick Ghazghkull with them, give them 'Eavy armor and either a trukk or battlewagon depending on the situation, and they're mean, green, and can whip the tail out of anything.
-It is a tough unit, but remember my previous statement. Powerfists/Thunderhammers and the like are insta killing each Nob. And Termies cost less. 6 Powerklaws are a lot of points to invest in a single unit. While tough, any unit can be brought down. The question is; are the points you spent on the Nob unit worth it? Personally, there's too many points tied up in that unit.
7. Battlewagon weaponry: Don't give your battlewagon 2 big shootas; you'll do fine with 1. Your battlewagons full of boyz are really designed to be highly mobile platforms to get your boyz into assault as quickly as possible. That means that your BWs are going to be moving 13" every turn, in which case you don't get to shoot your big shootas anyway. You need to have one in case you suffer a weapon destroyed result.
-Agreed. At least one should be mandatory (I think it is actually in the codex)
8. Honestly...I've stopped taking bosspoles with my nob units. Either my boyz are fearless, and its irrelevant, or they're below 10, in which case I probably seriously lost combat, in which case I need to roll a 2 or a 3. Causing a wound (and essentially killing) a boy so that you get a chance to reroll a...2 or 3 doesn't help much.
-
YMMV, but I won't take a unit w/o one. Even degraded Ork units have their purpose, even if it is to stick around one more turn even though they will surely be destroyed.
9. Boyz with rokkits are pretty much wasted points. With a BS2, you're not going to do much hitting, and Orks don't have target locks. If you're taking them to deal with vehicles that means that you're going to have to shoot them at vehicles, which means that the rest of your squad of 18 other boyz are going to shoot at nothing or ineffectively shoot at a vehicle with BS2 STR4 weapons. Rokkits are worthy as twin-linked weapons on outflanking Deffkoptas, but useless in a boyz squad. If you're making a shooty army, give yourself more dakka and stick in big shootas instead.
-I've honestly never used Rokkits in my Boyz unit. The times I've seen them used, they have been ok. In your particular build, I see uses for them if you play against a lot of mechanized lists.
10. Speaking of which, if you're making a dakka army, where are your Lootas?!? They're essential for an ork shooty army! If you're making an assault army and all those boyz are sluggas instead of shootas, then neither rokkits nor big shootas belong in there.
11. Might want to consider doing wound allocation magic to your Deffkoptas. For example, in a squad of 3 Deffkoptas you could have:
1.
TL Rokkits
2.
TL Rokkits + Big Bomb
3.
TL Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Alternatively, you could toss a single big shoota in there. I think having one big bomb is worthwhile for when you play swarm armies...
IG, tyranid, Orks...you can turboboost your unit 24", drop a large blast template over a huge swarm, and profit from a 3+ cover save next turn with wound allocation magic to keep you safe to get 3
TL rokkits off next turn.
12. You're missing anti-tank if Deff Rollas aren't allowed to be used on vehicles. Rokkits are unpredictable, especially with a BS2, and still ineffective against Land raiders.
A battlewagon list is expensive, but if you're going to do it, you need to add some punch in there to deal with tanks. Grabbin' Klaws will do it somewhat. Bring them, along with boarding planks. If you have 4 battlewagons, grabbin' klaws work on a 4+, in which case you'll get to immobilize 2 vehicles on average per turn of theirs. Then on your following turn, you boarding plank them, get auto-hits, and get a nob worth of charging powerklaws against their rear armor.
That can take down a land raider too.
13. If you're going to take a battlewagon list, go all out with it. What would you think about dropping the Deff Koptas and adding in another battlewagon? Perhaps full of burnas? That would give you an answer to terminators, Nidzillas, and large squads of
MEQs.
-Burnas in a BW can be brutal. Personally, I'm not completely sold on Deff Koptas, and think if you can find a way to get another Battlewagon w/ Burnas, you will be happier.
There's my two cents. See what happens when you give a theme?
