Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Dred Bash 1750

So I must say at the very start that points are very tight trying to maximize and squeeze in as much as possible. The tactics involved in this list are very simple you simply run at the enemy at full speed every turn

Mek with KFF 85

Mek with KFF 85

Elites
12 lootas180
12 lootas180

I could take out two models from each squad to free up 60 points to spend elsewhere. Or alternatively I could simply have one squad 15 models to free up even more points

Total 360

Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85

not enough points to equip these guys with anything more

30 slugga boyz nob PK, 215
30 slugga boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215

If I could find the points I would equip these guys with 3 big shooters in each squads
Total 815

The backbone of the army 90 Boys

Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka

currently cannot afford rockets would need to find points possibly could make them cheaper by big shooters etc.
Total 405

Total 1750

unite all action wrote:Dred Bash 1750

So I must say at the very start that points are very tight trying to maximize and squeeze in as much as possible. The tactics involved in this list are very simple you simply run at the enemy at full speed every turn

Mek with KFF 85

Mek with KFF 85

Elites
12 lootas180
12 lootas180

I could take out two models from each squad to free up 60 points to spend elsewhere. Or alternatively I could simply have one squad 15 models to free up even more points

Take the 60 pts and put them in other stuff like DCCW and if you have points left then beff out these squads.

Total 360

Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85

not enough points to equip these guys with anything more
Find a way to give them DCCW they need to be running not shooting!


30 slugga boyz nob PK, 215
30 slugga boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215

If I could find the points I would equip these guys with 3 big shooters in each squads
No big shootas they are running to CC not shooting and they need bosspoles so that they won't run when they get to below 10 models because if they do then they won't be able to regroup.


Total 815

The backbone of the army 90 Boys

Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka

currently cannot afford rockets would need to find points possibly could make them cheaper by big shooters etc.
Total 405

Take off the grotzooke and give them some sort of non blast template weapon. They are the best shooters in the army since they have a BS3 so take advantage of that .

Total 1750

I run a almost identical list.

Skip those sluggas and make em shootas take big shootas stack em up behind ure kanz and just move forward and enjoy ure wins

so listening to your suggestions still a few points to spend


Dred Bash 1750

Mek with KFF 85

Mek with KFF 85

Elites
10 lootas150
10 lootas150
Total 300

Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
Total 815


Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Total 450

Total 1735

My advice: ignore everything that the previous poster wrote.

1. Grotzookas are awesome. =) Assault 2 blast template at STR6 is nice. They have BS3, not BS4; rokkits or big shootas are pointless on these guys because you can get dakka elsewhere in your army. Keep the Grotzookas.

2. Your Lootas: Either take 15 of each or take none. You can't do 10 or 12 and expect anything from the unit.

3. Mek with KFF is fun for a mechanized list and giving all your vehicles 4+ saves, but I honestly don't believe that they belong in a foot slogging list. Take one KFF and keep him near your kans and dreads to give them 4+ saves, and your other HQ choice...I think you should take a Mek with a Shokk attack gun and stick him in with a Loota squad. All your boyz and even your kans can be in ruins geting 4+ cover saves, so that 5+ cover save isn't really useful for boyz.

4. Deff Dread Skorchas - you're going to find an interesting situation here; often when you get up to an enemy, if you're in range to skorch them (and then assault them) you'll find that shooting them and killing a couple of models will result in you being out of assault range, so you'll hold off on shooting. Play around with it a few games and see how you like a the Skorcha+CCW combo. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, keep it to 2 CCWs.

5. If you NEED to cut points somewhere, cut your boy squads from 30 to 25 or 26, or whatever you need. Don't go below 20, but you've got a bit of room to play.

6. Shoota boyz are the right choice for a foot slogging list. That assault 2 18" gun makes up for having one less attack in close combat.

7. Your anti-tank is completely close-combat foot slogging; IE your dreads and killa kans. You're going to have trouble against a mechanized list. I personally don't favor the kan-wall army list, if I'm going to do a foot-slogging list, you're going to see overwhelming numbers of boyz on the ground.

That's why I do love this form some brilliant advice

Overall I think you may be right in regards to the Lootas and maybe one squad of 15 is the way to go it would free up a lot of extra points to spend elsewhere. Which would lead on quite nicely to incorporate as Shokk attack gun pairing the two together would work out quite nicely and since I do have the additional points.

The only problem is generally in test playing you always seem to be running closer to the enemy and you never seem to have the opportunity to shoot what the Killercan's are armed with so keeping them cheap as possible is generally the way I see it

The other point reducing the boys in size I do not see as an option as having 30 of them is a bit self-explanatory and seems to work very well may be adding a boss poll

I usually give generalized advice, which I'll do now:

Orks can do anything that any other army can do and do it better than they can. However, they cannot do everything that any other army can do. Make sense? If you make an ork assault army, they'll out-assault any other army in 40k. If you make a shooting army, you can outgun IG or Tau. If you go foot-slogging, or mechanized, or kan-wall....all those options make you a completely awesome army, but there's a catch. You can only do one of them at a time with an army list.

If you combine a mechanized and a foot-slogging list, you're going to lose. If you have part assault, party shooting, you're probably going to lose. Your strength is in being able to pick something and be completely awesome at it. So before giving you advice on where to go next with your army, you need to pick a theme and build around it. If you want a bike army, or a shooting army; an outflanking army, mechanized, assault, figure out what your playstyle is and start building your units and armylist around that idea.

THAT is the strength of Orks.

When you decide what you want your army list to be, start by explaining what your intent is, then post an army list along those lines and we'll work from there and make suggestions.
--------------------------------------
Now, with that said...you're combining a few different elements here. You've got shooting, you've got a kan-wall, and you've got foot-slogging. The latter two sort of go together, but Lootas might not belong in your list. If you want to take a dakka list, you should take as many lootas as orkishly possible (45) and leave them in cover in your rear along with two shokk attack guns. Seems like you want to make a kan wall, in which case having stationary targets on your rear line is a bad idea as they can easily get nuked by outflanking stuff.

I honestly run 2 squads of 3 kanz with zookas, and one squad of three rockitz at this points level. Having that one rockit group is going to nicely use that BS3 as a potential ranged vehicle sap, allows some kills against 12 and 13 armor easier, and will confuse your enemy. Hes obviously going to be like, what to go for, the 2 rushing dreads, the possible death to transport kanz, the anti horde kanz, the massed boyz I dont want charging, he is gonna have a real problem deciding because whatever he leaves is gonna mess stuff up, kanz are usually best to run at troops, so you would have lootas +SAG mek + dreadz on vehicles, maybe rockit kanz on vehicles, and then 2 kan squads and 3 boyz squads on infantry, I also agree with switching to shoots, boyz suck but when you have 59 shots per squad firing per turn, your gonna see a lot of damage...

Along with what Dash has said, taking Snikrot and friends would make for a nice distraction, and potentially come on and take out some heavy weapons to open things up for the kans and boyz.

Dashofpepper wrote:
When you decide what you want your army list to be, start by explaining what your intent is, then post an army list along those lines and we'll work from there and make suggestions.

Dashofpepper don't get me wrong I do see where you're coming from but the theme overall is Dred Bash.

So what does that entail simply put as many walkers as physically possible on the tabletop which in this list has been accomplished although equipment wise there's still issues mainly in the dreads extra armor etc. weapons

HQ
not much to say here to

Elites
so overall this seems to be the hot topic in your argument whether or not they fit in to this list but unless you're taking more boys what other viable option is there that hasn't already been accomplished elsewhere.

Troops
stripped out 30 man squad boys nice and simple the only option here is to include another squad of 30 and include big shooters in all the squads

Heavy support
3x3 Killercan's not much else to say here always seems to be a hot topic in regards to what the arm them with either rockets or grotzooka.

So to my understanding there's 360 points to left if you do not take lootas unless you're carrying with green tide theme what other options are available in your opinion

1 Dred Bash 1750

Mek with KFF 85

Mek with KFF 85

Elites


Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
Total 815


Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Total 450

Total 1435

As a whole I think we're all in agreement that the foundation is there its just simply where do you spend the extra points

2 Dred Bash 1750

Mek SAG 95

Mek with KFF 85

Elites
15 lootas 225

Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha Armour Plates 95
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha Armour Plates 95
30 slugga boyz Big Shoota nob 3 PK, 230
30 slugga boyz Big Shoota nob 3 PK, 230
30 slugga boyz Big Shoota nob 3 PK, 230
Total 880

The backbone of the army 90 Boys

Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Killercan 3x150 Rokkits
Total 450

Tota 1735

There's a good 1750 list; if you want a bigger list, just add more boyz.

Dashofpepper wrote:There's a good 1750 list; if you want a bigger list, just add more boyz.

In your opinion which one is better or is it all about personal taste

Honestly, I think that you should put the grotzookas back on your killa-kans. =p

It leaves you short on anti-tank, but rokkits don't scare land raiders, wave serpents, battlewagons, leman russ battletanks, or a lot of other things anyway.


I've done a *LOT* of experimenting with rokkits, and I've pretty much abandoned them for anti-tank. I take close combat weapons (which you have) tank bustas in a battlewagon, and/or Deff Koptas with twin-linked rokkits outflanking in squads of 1-3.

Killa-kans with rokkits aren't going to get you tank busting results. You've got a 24" range, and you're going to be shooting at front armor...not optimal. Sub them out and get your grotzookas back in there. At least then you'll be dishing out wounds.

If you need some real anti-tank, look into the possibility of taking some foot-slogging tank bustas. You're going to have to hide them somehow, or keep them alive, or at least keep them well screened, but they're looking better and better to me for anti-tank.

Dred Bash 1750

Mek SAG 98 Ammo runt

Mek with KFF 85

Elites
15 lootas 225

Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha Armour Plates 95
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha Armour Plates 95
30 shoota boyz 3 Big Shoota Nob boss pole PK, 235
30 shoota boyz 3 Big Shoota Nob boss pole PK, 235
30 shoota boyz 3 Big Shoota Nob boss pole PK, 235
Total 895

The backbone of the army 90 Boys

Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Total 405

Tota 1708

They are back in which leaves me 42 points to spend. Spend on what?

Although there is a few options there is not much else to buy, boss pole in the squads for 15 points

Get x2 CCW on the dreads, as has been said, you honestly will rarely find a use for them scorchas, youd be better off with the CCW especially since a lot of your anti tank is walkers in CC and you would need those extra attacks.

Obviously dash has doubts about rockits, I am not an overall fan of them, but I still like having one unit with them, to either nick a transport or something, like hit a transport with the rockits, kill it, force disembark, grotzooka the inhabitants, or assault them, or both, its just with hella mech these days, you need to pop the transports quick otherwise you charge them, then get blasted to hell with mad melta, then poss counter charge, I would rather never give them the chance...

gameandwatch wrote:Get x2 CCW on the dreads, as has been said, you honestly will rarely find a use for them scorchas, youd be better off with the CCW especially since a lot of your anti tank is walkers in CC and you would need those extra attacks.

It is clear of the disadvantage of scorchas which have all been highlighted but finding the points to include x2 CCW at the minute is hard to do.

Although I'm still getting mixed feelings in regards to including Mek SAG. I'm not too sure myself. Do not get me wrong, he has a place, and no doubt would work well but it is whether or not he can be used effectively although much-needed long-range firepower still is appealing

4xDCCW dreads are a real threath to all armys and they will get shot at lot and thats good if they come in to your enemy lines he's dead if they dont then you have alot of kanz left.

Put a Bosspole on your sag to so you can use it when ure lootas wanna leave the table.

Came across this list on the Internet By Stelek on the forum it had some good potential. Although I do think it needs to be changed a little as, things have moved on since then

But the fundamental question is there is no nods in the squads with PK that frees up points

1750 Pts - Orks Roster - Propa Dread Smash

1 Big Mek @ 105 Pts
Choppa; Kustom Force Field; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole; Grot Oiler (x3); Mek's Tools

1 Big Mek @ 105 Pts
Choppa; Kustom Force Field; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole; Grot Oiler (x3); Mek's Tools

10 Lootas @ 150 Pts
Defffguns; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!

10 Lootas @ 150 Pts
Defffguns; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!

10 Lootas @ 150 Pts
Defffguns; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!

17 Gretchin @ 61 Pts
Grot Blasta; It's a Grot's Life
1 Runtherd @ [10] Pts
Grabba Stikk (x1); Slugga; Furious Charge; Squig Hound

17 Gretchin @ 61 Pts
Grot Blasta; It's a Grot's Life
1 Runtherd @ [10] Pts
Grabba Stikk (x1); Slugga; Furious Charge; Squig Hound

24 Boyz @ 154 Pts
Big Shoota (x2); Shoota; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!

24 Boyz @ 154 Pts
Big Shoota (x2); Shoota; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!

1 Deff Dread @ 120 Pts
Count as Troop Troops; Dreadnought CCW (x2); Dreadnought CCW (x2); Armour Plates; Grot Rigger

1 Deff Dread @ 120 Pts
Count as Troop Troops; Dreadnought CCW (x2); Dreadnought CCW (x2); Armour Plates; Grot Rigger

3 Killer Kans @ 140 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Grotzooka (x3); Grot Rigger (x1)

3 Killer Kans @ 140 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Grotzooka (x3); Grot Rigger (x1)

3 Killer Kans @ 140 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Grotzooka (x3); Grot Rigger (x1)

Total Roster Cost: 1750

Run everything but the Grots and Lootas forward.

Screen the lootas with one grot unit, or both if you like. You will get saves, they won't (from the grots).

Give the Orks Shootas, makes them annoying.

You kill vehicles in CC, and you don't need Nobs.

Trust me, it's the way to go.

Boyz mob without a Nob and Powerklaw - meet my dread. It'll tie up the whole unit for the rest of the game. Orks need PKs more than Marines need PFs.

dietrich wrote:Boyz mob without a Nob and Powerklaw - meet my dread. It'll tie up the whole unit for the rest of the game. Orks need PKs more than Marines need PFs.

Do not get me wrong because I do understand where you're coming from but I think overall the idea was to hold them back claiming objectives

I'd use a grot mob to camp on my objective over a boyz mob.

I ran a dread bash list all last year, I've done very well with it, and have TONS of XP with it. You are really close to what I was running, and what i finally boiled it down to after all the games.

Here's just some tips from my games. i ran 6 grot zookas on my kans for the first few tourneys. The units they are devastating against were units I didn't really care about. The two types of games you are going to play are... guys who are shootier than you, and guys that are choppier than you.

When playing guys that are shootier than you, your kans will be doing two things, running or charging. No one is ever going to do anything but move away from them, so you'll need to run to keep up.

When playing against people choppier than you, you are going to use the kans to generate 4+ cover, block and shut down tank shocks, and shoot. when you are using them thusly, the extended range of the big shoota was important to me, as was the extra points. Long story short. grotzookas are impressive well costed weapons, that you don't need.

Lootas are obviously vital to any foot ork army, I'd stick with two units if possible. Also, in my set up. 2 KFFS were vital. I spread the kans wide, and in between the two gaps in the units I placed a KFF. If I didn't have two, they'd be forced to bunch up, and their ability to fan out would be comprimised.

Dietrich through out a great suggestion, which is really useful if you want to try and shoehorn both of the deff dreads and two loota units. Go down to 2 boys units and one grot unit. I have used that config and its perfectly safe. Hold the grots in reserve, and just bring them on behind some cover, begin going to ground .

Try something like this.

KFF
KFF

15 lootas
15 lootas

30 shootas pk nob
30 shootas pk nob
19 grots and a runt herder
deffdread
deffdread

3x KK
3x KK
3x KK


That in my estimation is quite a nasty list, and it plays itself.

As to what to put on each dread/kan. Its really all about how many points you have left over. I didn't point that list out as I'm at work, but you'll probably need to spend the rest of the leftovers on weapons.

Big shootas on the shoota boys are pretty good for those situations where you find yourself under attack from an assault army. But they certainly aren't important enough to cut from this core. I'd suggest either heavy flamers or big shootas on the kans, to keep them cheap. and I'd suggest close combat weapons or heavy flamers on the deff dread, and I'd only advocate HF on the deff dread if you couldn't afford the C weapons. If it turns out you can afford it, grotzookas are perfectly fine. but I don't imagine that will fit in a list this tight.

Have fun with the klokwurk killas!

I can see the advantage of what you have said and yes the list as a whole is starting to become clarified personally Mek SAG does not really fit in so he will have to wait for another time.

In regards to your suggestions dropping 30 boys could be done although I am reluctant but that in itself would free up points to bulk out both sets of lootas 15 in number and it is a bit self-explanatory of the advantages.


Personally I think the fundamental question is all about the Killercan's and what the arm them with if I need them very very cheap that would free up points to include grots and a runt herder another scoring unit

Rockets are the most expensive option and considering all the pk into squads vehicles will generally be taken up close and personal which stands to reason.

grotzooka on the other hand are a bit more of a trickier option they make things cheaper and generally everyone seems to recommend them so including them in the list isn't really a disadvantage it's just whether or not they could be afforded.

skorcha they're cheap cheerful do not really have an disadvantage as they can prevent you going into CC biggest advantage cost

Big shooter long-range firepower nice and cheap not really much else to say.

So my own personal view I think kicking all into consideration grotzooka are probably the way to go if they can be afforded.

Absolutely with the Grotzookas.

At the end of the day, you have to figure out what does what in your army and does it the best.

Rokkits: Battlewagons, trukks, tank bustas, deffkoptas can all do this better, so they're wasted on kans.

Big Shootas: In a foot-slogging army your ENTIRE army is dakka. Or at least it better be. =p Putting big shootas on here is redundant and doesn't give you anything.

Skorchas: You nailed it - you need to get into close combat, not kill stuff you're about to assault.

Grotzookas: Having templates is great against clustered troops! One of my favorite tactics is to tank shock someone to cluster them up, then template the crap out of what I just clustered up. Against swarms, templates do double wounds, and STR6 will insta-kill scarabs and (rippers I think).

So just to clarify I have posted the final list overall I think I'm very happy with it as always there is other options available any final comments welcome

Dred Bash 1750

Mek with KFF 85

Mek with KFF 85

Elites
12 lootas180
12 lootas180
Total 360

Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215
Total 815

Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka


Total 405

Total 1750