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Well, Ard Boyz is comming to Canada!... so I was thinking of going to the first round taking my Dark Eldar army. And I was wondering, I know that there are no comp, no painting and no sportsmanship scores, its all about beating the snot out of everyone. And at 2500pts the nastiest list come to the forefront.
Now, with Dark Eldar... I find that the apex of the list comes at about 1500-2000 pts but above that you run out of FOC... As in there is a max of 3 Ravages, and 6 Raider Squads, and 3 Wych squads... and 2 HQ... And they can be filled pretty fast with DE.

Anyway, I was wondering, any pointers? I was thinking of taking a Kabal list, with many raiders. Anyway, I am looking to your advice and tricks!

Bring it on.

Cheers!

There are not a huge number of dark eldar players. It would probably be better if you posted some kind of list
and asked for feedback.

I dunno anything about dark eldar, but this sounded fun:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/05/black-hole.html

Maybe it can be "biggerized" to 2500.

number- That list and tactic is completely illegal. The points are off and a heamonculous can't join the mandrakes.

Manimal- Yes a list might be more like it, but this is what I am thinking:

Vect (cant say no to a 4th ravager)
Dracon, Shadow, Drugs Agonizer
Drazar Master of Blades
8 Incubi
Raider - Night Shield

8 Wyches- Raider
8 Wyches- Raider

Raider Squad 9 man
Raider Squad 9 man
Raider Squad 9 man
Raider Squad 9 man
Raider Squad 5 man
Radier Squad 5 man

all in Raiders with night shields

And of course-
3 Ravagers (one with 3 lances the other 2 with 3 dissintegrators each)

I dont want this to be an army list discussion in te sense of "what would make the army better" but more in the sense that... I went to Ard Boy once, and the list that won was... watch out for this build.. etc etc.

Cheers!

Not to derail, and I don't have a personal opinion on this as I'm so unfamiliar with dark eldar rules, but there's a lengthy discussion about whether ICs can join mandrakes or not here:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/05/mandrakes-and-ics.html

Anyway, as I said, don't mean to derail, and hope you get what you are looking for from the thread =]

I doubt the points are off, it's built in army builder. Stelek is a great army builder and he for sure tries to find loopholes and abuse them. Even if he can't attack IC 's to Mandrakes, Black Hole armies are the only way to play DE effectively. I'll even counter argument myself.

"No dude! You can use your speed to get closer to the guy! Then you can assault him turn 2-3!"

Yeah against a noob player. If he hunkers down and forces you to go through his full firepower, nothing significant will make it. Raiders aren't that tough to kill. A SM squad could glance it down w/ Immobilized. If it's immobilized it's screwed anyway! If you even let yourself get shot for ONE turn then you are in trouble! Imperial guard can literally wipe you out if your whole army isn't moving flat out and even then they could cause MASSIVE casualties. Your raider squads should be snipers and should have leaders with trophy racks so they don't run away. Stuff like that!

Im not saying he is a bad army builder. Its just his points are off. A squad with a shredder and splinter cannon is 60pts. Plus Raider equals 115 pts. He has all the squads listed at 105pts. Just an observation.

The night shields are quite effective when engaged in a ranged firefight and they effectively help nullify all those low str weapons that the AV 10 are vulnerable to... namely anything that rapid fires... (if the enemy moves their range will be reduced to 6"!) If they stay still, only the major AT weapons will be able to deal with the tanks, making them more effective. Usually the enemy will get one turn of firing in no matter what. Of course 1st turn charges with wyches are not uncommon... especially against guard, that helps a lot .

As for trophy racks, they only add to the leadership of the squad once they have done casualties in close combat, therefore they are not effective on squads that want to sit back and shoot.

The army works by making the enemy mes up on target priority and using shock, capitaliing on the enemies mistakes.

4 Ravagers are nothing to sneeze at either...

EzeKK- I do have to differ on the "nothing significant will make it" statement. I deliberately make all my units significant in some way... all the units can mess with the enemy therefore something with significance will always make it. The one thing that the enemy, if they have any sense at all will kill, is the Dracon and his retinue... 8 incubi + drazar... that is a -VERY- killy unit and will take the brunt of enemy firepower, but even Drazhar alone I have seen walk though 5-600 points of enemy army on his own. It was a wonderfull day. If the raiders are destroyed I dont mind at all, there will always be an empty raider that will be mroe than willing to pick the stradlers up.

What other "stuff like that" would anyone want to comment on? - Thanks for the imput!

That is true, even 5 witches making it through could hurt something VERY badly. What I meant was that what will make it won't win you the game. It will kill something, Dark Eldar in CC are wicked, but raiders without flat out...

If you aren't going to web-way you just have to be an experience player. Even with webway you have to! You still have to place it in a good position. I wouldn't bring a 1st time DE army to any tourney, I would practice it a LOT.

I'm curious, do you have any special weapons on your Raider squads? Are they Splinter Cannon/Special Weapon or mini Dark Lance squads?

Unless you didn't mention it, you're definitely in need of more CC choppy-ness in your list. Your HQ's are impressive..but they're only two units. At the very least, Succubus with Agonizers in your Wych squads. If you can swing the points, Sybarites with Poisoned Blades or Agonizers in your Raider squads. At the moment, you have Raiders to get the squads in close, but I don't see them doing a whole lot up close with just splinter rifles.


Oh, and a Raider squad with Splinter Cannon and Shredder is 65 points, not 60

As for the composition of the list:

The wych succubuses do have agonizers.

The squads are armed with splinter cannon and blasters (for the 9 man ones) and dark lance for the 5 man ones.

The list is more shooty of course, and the trick is to soften up what the wyches are going to hit. This is not the first time im taking DE to a tournament, its the first time I am going to an Ard boyz. I am a 40K seasoned veteran, that is why I am playig DE, Black Templars are just not a challenge to play and win with any more. :(

Hehe, as for the rapid fire splinter rifles, I have seen them do wonders up close, but of course the spintercannon and blaster are there as well.

5 warriors 40 -shredder 10- splintercannon 10. = 60?
(put point values to prove a point)

I'm going to be bringing DE for the first time myself, if your looking for more of a CC edge without impacting your ranged firepower try some Reaver Bikes with a Agonizer or a Punisher. It gives you some more flexibility since your raiders do not have to get too close to the enemy and against anything but a dedicated CC unit you will beat the snot out of it.

@Iago.
If you read Steleks list again you will see he hasnt given his warriors splinter cannons, just shredders. (and snap for avatars )

The list looks quite good. Should be fun to play. If I may say something? I think you should upgrade the Dracon for an Archon. Just because he is only 10 points? more for an extra attack, BS and WS (dont have codex on me atm)

Guard are gonna have a field day with any raider spam.

G

@Yani- Vect takes up the place of the armies archon.

@ Green Blow Fly- Yes, guard will have a "field day".. but that does not really help me out in any way. I am looking for some constructive tips, maybe something like " when fighting guard, look out for hydras and autocannon, they are cheap plentiful and will tear your raiders to shreds. To counter this, I suggest...."

I am looking for advice, not foreboding. I dont mean to be a jerk either.

I am also a firm believer that the helmsman is of great importance when running an army, that terrain placement, deployment and most of all, the dice. Its all relative. And I am certain I would give any of the "uber" guard lists a run for their money. Then again the entry is free and all

Iago wrote:@Yani- Vect takes up the place of the armies archon.

@ Green Blow Fly- Yes, guard will have a "field day".. but that does not really help me out in any way. I am looking for some constructive tips, maybe something like " when fighting guard, look out for hydras and autocannon, they are cheap plentiful and will tear your raiders to shreds. To counter this, I suggest...."

I am looking for advice, not foreboding. I dont mean to be a jerk either.

I am also a firm believer that the helmsman is of great importance when running an army, that terrain placement, deployment and most of all, the dice. Its all relative. And I am certain I would give any of the "uber" guard lists a run for their money. Then again the entry is free and all

Honestly, if you're worried about facing IG, and by that I mean you think it's a possiblity, you are in a seriously tough position. I've played both, and DE on IG was a tough row to how back before the new book. With it, the IG simply are an uphill battle for DE.

I think if you get first, you take it. You blitz forward on a flank, grabbing the 4++ and hopeing to hit his lines. If you get second, or even if you feel crafty, keep everything in reserve, and sneak stuff out in response to your opponents deployment. Concentrate on knocking out his troops so he can't take objectives.

iago ignore the night shields. Waste of points. Paying for 6 -10 raiders with night shields almost gets you an extra unit!

I know the night shields are quite a chunka points. I do like them tho. And I would be able to put something else in, like RJB or something. I will certainly look into it.
@ Polonus- Im not worried about facing guard. I was trying to make a point on the value of good posting over one sentence that is of no value.

Iago wrote:I know the night shields are quite a chunka points. I do like them tho. And I would be able to put something else in, like RJB or something. I will certainly look into it.
@ Polonus- Im not worried about facing guard. I was trying to make a point on the value of good posting over one sentence that is of no value.

And I'm saying, just because your the OP doesn't mean you're the sole judge of a posts value. GBF may not have been helpful to you, exactly, but he raises a very valid point.

Next time you have a moment, scroll down to the bottom of the main forum index page. IT lists who is online, and how many registered vs. guest users there are. True lurkers (those that aren't even registered) outnumber members like 5-1. Your thread alone has had almost 200 views. It's hard to say that nobody benefited from GBF's statement. It wasn't what you wanted to hear, but it had value.

Here you go:

2500 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster - 2500 'ard boyz

1 Archon @ 477 Pts
Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Trophy Rack; Punisher; Plasma Grenades; Animus Vitae
1 Retinue @ [320] Pts
2 Warriors @ [40] Pts
Splinter Cannon (x2); Plasma Grenades
5 Incubi @ [225] Pts
Tormentor Helm; Punisher (x5); Plasma Grenades
1 Drazhar @ [90] Pts
Disembowler Blades; Tormentor Helm
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

1 Haemonculi @ 45 Pts
Scissorhand; Destructor

1 Haemonculi @ 45 Pts
Scissorhand; Destructor

1 Haemonculi @ 45 Pts
Scissorhand; Destructor

9 Wyches @ 233 Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster (x2); Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades
1 Succubus @ [42] Pts
Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad)
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

9 Wyches @ 233 Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster (x2); Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades
1 Succubus @ [42] Pts
Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad)
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

9 Wyches @ 233 Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster (x2); Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades
1 Succubus @ [42] Pts
Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad)
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

9 Raider Squad @ 142 Pts
Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x7); Splinter Cannon; Raider
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

9 Raider Squad @ 142 Pts
Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x7); Splinter Cannon; Raider
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

9 Raider Squad @ 142 Pts
Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x7); Splinter Cannon; Raider
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

9 Raider Squad @ 142 Pts
Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x7); Splinter Cannon; Raider
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

8 Raider Squad @ 134 Pts
Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x6); Splinter Cannon; Raider
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

9 Raider Squad @ 142 Pts
Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x7); Splinter Cannon; Raider
1 Raider @ [55] Pts
Dark Lance

1 Ravager @ 115 Pts
Dark Lance (x1); Disentegrator (x2)

1 Ravager @ 115 Pts
Dark Lance (x1); Disentegrator (x2)

1 Ravager @ 115 Pts
Dark Lance (x1); Disentegrator (x2)

Total Roster Cost: 2500

It's gross, just hope you go first against guard and you should be fine. I would put nightshields on at least the ravagers as that will keep them out of range of some units.

Guard are gonna have a field day with any raider spam.

If by field day you mean hard time, then yes you are correct. DE is the Rock to IG's scissors. If DE get the first turn they win, if they get the second turn they hold everything in reserves and win 3-4 turns later.





Also Haemonculi can not join mandrakes.

Thanks all for the posts.

Now, to the posted List: I would love to run something like that, but I only own 8 Raiders currently :( but it is the concept I am going for.

Hope all you lurkers find this useful

And Vect is a yes yes. 4 ravagers? wipee!

I think you should have bikes. 3 squads of bikes.

Also, guard might have a "field day" but you're going to have a field day right back with your massive anti-tank firepower. Depending on mission, you can do all sorts of things, and turbo-boost 24" forward to get into close combat turn 2 while benefiting from a cover save that will make half of the shots directed at you miss.

Yeah, or a first turn charge with the wyhes if the enemy gets sloppy.


Imperial guard have squadrons... 3 russes fire... one dead something.
Dark eldar have ravager... 1 ravager fires... 3 dead russes haha.

Of course luck is a big factor, but you get the idea. Im not worried about the armour in a guard list. Im worried about stubborn units. grrr