Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Guys. I noticed that this question is already in the list of questions to to be sent in and hopefully addressed in the official FAQ, but I was looking for something in the shorter term. Obviously if my opponent is unwilling to agree with me without an official FAQ, this is a moot point, but hopefully he wont have in issue.

So, I play a footslogging Eldar army, and was recently raped by a Valkyrie and its hellfire missiles. Part of this was my own fault, because I didnt spread my units out, hadn't expected the 24" scout + 12" move on the first turn, and some other things. Long story short, he got right up in the face of some Harlies I thought would be safe because of Veil of Tears, and fired his Hellfire missile at me which promptly owned all 6 of my harlies under its large blast template.

I was then perusing the IG tactica article on Dakka, and noticed that the poster said he didn't like hellstrike missiles because it was just an ordinance weapon, not a blast weapon. I thought this odd, but when I looked at the codex, sure enough it says ordinance, 1 shot under the profile. I have not seen any other template weapons that do no specifically say which blast template they use, so I am inclined to say that by leaving it out they are indeed saying it is not a blast weapon. However, the ordinance rule in the book says if not otherwise specified, it uses the large blast template.

So like I said, I know you can't give me an official answer, but if I could get some opinions/arguments for one way or the other, this will help me decide if I want to bring this up to the other player.

Thanks for your input in advance.

The rules do not say it is a blast weapon, so it is not.

No, really. It is THAT simple. It is an Ordnance weapon though, so it Rolls "2D6 pick Highest" for Armour Pen. and stops the firing of other weapons if fired. However you roll using BS, not the Blast Rules.
For more proof, check out the rest of the Ordnance Weapons in the IG codex. They ALL say they are Ordnance Large Blast apart from the Hellstrike, which does not.

Be warned that some people will use the wording on page 58 of the BRB (Unless their profile specifies otherwise, all ordnance blast weapons use the large blast marker) but you must Remember, the Hellstrike is NOT a Ordnance Blast Weapon.

That IS the official answer, it is just added to the FAQ because, it is a FAQ, because IIRC, no other Ordnance does not use the Blast Marker (I could be Mistaken though, I may be good, but I am not Encyclopaedic)

Right. I tend to agree with you on that one. I suppose I just have to bring it up to him and make my case, and hope he doesn't just try to stick to that interpretation of the ordnance classification. If he does, well, really not much I can do besides stop playing with him or grit my teeth and deal with an already great vehicle becoming even better. Thanks for your response Gwar.

Ask him to show you where "Ordnance" = "large blast" - he won't be able to find it. The ONLY reference is that all "ordnance BLAST" are large blast, however you must have the "blast" there in the first place.

Does that mean it doesn't use a template?

I agree with you there nosferatu, I think thats pretty much the best way to put it. Hopefully it works out for me, because that thing really raped me very hard.

Harkainos wrote:Does that mean it doesn't use a template?

Is it's Range "Template"? Because with very few exceptions, only Weapons with the range "Template" use the Template. Actually, bar some Obscure IA Weapon, even the Ones with Special Rules like the Hellhound still list the Range as Template.

Some Weapons use the Large or Small Blast Marker, such as Frag Missiles, Plasma Cannons and Battle Cannons, but the Hellstrike is not one of them.

And harkainos yes I believe that is the case. Because it is not an ordinance blast weapon, and it does not specify a template, it is just a one target attack like a lascannon.

Gwar! wrote:Some Weapons use the Large or Small Blast Marker, such as Frag Missiles, Plasma Cannons and Battle Cannons, but the Hellstrike is not one of them.

My apologies for supplementing the word template for the word marker....


I see now that it doesn't use a blast MARKER.

And Knowing is Half the battle!

I've been fearing vendettas and their Hellfire missiles after some folks telling me about their tank heavy IG lists. Gwar, you're absolutely awesome.

Dashofpepper wrote:I've been fearing vendettas and their Hellfire missiles after some folks telling me about their tank heavy IG lists. Gwar, you're absolutely awesome.

Thank you

As for worrying about them, In short: Don't. Roll to hit on BS, can't fire other weapons etc etc, just not worth it. I mean, it's not even twin linked. 3 TL Lascannon for 130 Points is Much, MUCH more effective. I mean, Marines pay 165 Points for that, and only one is twin linked. And the Marine one can't move 24" pre game to get that delicious rear Armour 10 vs Strength 9

To be fair, when this IG player you know realises he's got it wrong (or hes been caught out!), he'll switch to MRP valkyries.

These guys can still 24" scout + 12" move, firing two str 4 large blasts aswell as 3 str6 shots. Str 4 hits on harlies, wounding on 3's, will make them go away. Likewise effective against guardains & to a lesser extent, dire avengers.

Of note here is that, if an Ordnance weapon is Ordnance Barrage, then it does automatically use the large blast marker, despite not listing blast, because barrage weapons always use a blast marker.

While not relevant to the Hellfire Missiles themselves I mention it because lately I have seen people mixing the Hellfire Missile argument in with the Master of Ordnance, they are totally different situations because of the simple addition of barrage to the MOO's weapon profile.

Just thought I'd toss in a clairification for everyone here as the word Hellfire is being tossed around, and it is not a weapon.

The hellSTRIKE is the single shot super krak missile found on the regular Valkyrie. This is the one that people think has a blast where in fact it does not.

The hellFURY missiles are found on the Vendetta and are one shot large blast weapons, though they have more incommon with multiple rocket pods than krak missiles.