Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With regards to the rule from page 62 of the rulebook (bottom paragraph).

What I am not sure on is what is considered part of the hull of the basilisk. The gun barrel is definitely not part of the hull but what about the gun shield? It would seem that if this is included in the basilisk's hull then the basilisk would not be able to claim a 3+ cover save as part of the front facing can be seen by the firer.

What are other people's thoughts on this?

AFAIK obscured gives you a 4+ cover save, not 3+. Does the bask have a special rule to improve this?

You must determine by TLOS, and yes the gun parts especially the shield count.

To be obscured "at least 50% of the facing" must be "hidden" to get a cover save, not the whole thing.

Like I said page 62 explains about the special rule that allows a vehicle to receive a 3+ cover save under certain conditions. This applies to all vehicles not just the basilisk. I am just using the basilisk as an example.

And page 60 of the rule book (top paragraph) clearly explains how gun barrels are not considered part of the vehicles hull. What is not clear is what the gun shield part would be classed under.

NeoMaul wrote:Like I said page 62 explains about the special rule that allows a vehicle to receive a 3+ cover save under certain conditions. This applies to all vehicles not just the basilisk. I am just using the basilisk as an example.

And page 60 of the rule book (top paragraph) clearly explains how gun barrels are not considered part of the vehicles hull. What is not clear is what the gun shield part would be classed under.

The 3+ cover is only if you are shooting at a face you can see but are not in the Faces zone. For example you are in the front facing, but you can only see the side armour. Note that Gun barrels etc ARE used to Block LOS, but cannot be used to Draw LOS to the vehicle.

The Gun Shield would be part of the Hull.

Also the bulk of the gun itself is above the hull, even excluding the barrel. As such, I don't see any circumstance where a chimera could grant a basilisk a 3+.

Gwar! wrote:
The Gun Shield would be part of the Hull.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you Gwar, but why would you say that the Gun Sheild is part of the hull?

If that was the case, could you not just omit the Gun sheild on your model then have nothing to draw line of sight to? You cannot see the gun sheild now as it isnt there....only the gun.

(for the record, I dont beleive a 3+ save is worth arguing over, I'd let my opponent play it however he was used to probably. I'm just curious on RAW's interpretation here.)

The gun is included - just the barrel is ignored. So there is still plenty of hull sticking up over a chimera.

You can still do it even if the gun shield is part of the hull, just buy the Bassie camo.

.....cutting bassy shield now...."snip!"

AtraAngelis wrote:.....cutting bassy shield now...."snip!"

You should take it one step further and just mount the gun barrel on the treads, after shaving the treads down to 1/4".

AtraAngelis wrote:.....cutting bassy shield now...."snip!"

I believe that is what is termed "modeling for an advantage" and is heavily frowned upon and many TOs will probably call shenanigans.

He could simply argue he wanted to make his "gun" look longer so he trimmed things up...

As has been pointed out before, modeling for advantage is perfectly legal.

But if you're doing it to the point where you are removing entire parts of a vehicle to make it easier to obscure, you're a tosser, and you'll have a perfectly legal army that no one is going to play against (including many TOs that aren't going to let you use them).

RAW LOS is drawn to the hull or turret.

The gun is neither (especially if you leave off the gun shield).

Chimera in front of a Bassie = shooting AV10 with a 3+ cover save.