Boom Nids mk.2 1500 - For the Conscientiousness gentleman.

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**Razerous**

Just had a few thoughts and took some advice onboard. I also like blast templates. I also like being able to beat mechenised lists.

With that in mind;

HQ:
1x Hive Tyrant
+Toxin sacs
+Winged
+2x Sything talons
+Warp field
+Flesh hooks
+Toxic Miasma = 188

5x Tyranid warriors
+1sv
+1S
+4x death spitter (A-D)
+1x barbed strangler (E)
+sything talons (A)
+rending claws (B)
+spinefists (C)
+lashwhip (D)
+sything talons (E) - 176

Troops
20 x Gaunts
+Spinefist = 100

20 x Gaunts
+Spinefist = 100

11x Gaunts
+Spine fist
+With out number = 88

Elites:
5x Tyranid warriors
+ ^^ See above. = 176

5x Tyranid warriors
+ ^^ See above. = 176

Heavy Support:
Carnifex
+Enchanced senses
+Extended carapace
+Bonded exoskeleton
+Venon cannon
+Barbed Strangler = 193

Carnifex
+^^ as above = 193

2xZoanthropes
+Warp blast = 110

= 1500pts

Ive got an elite slot open for higher point games aswell as a third Zoanthrope. Troops are sorted, Im hefting some strong firepower and should be able to cover my advance. Ive also had an idea about an alternate Tyrant build - see tactics.

C&c - Any good?

**Dashofpepper**

I don't know enough about Tyranid weaponry, but I'm always trying to learn more.

Can you tell me what is anti-tank, anti-mechanized weaponry in this list, STR and AP, blast or not, etc and tell me how you would use this against a mechanized list?

**Razerous**

Err..

Str 8 large blast 36" barded stranglers (str 4 on the Tyranid warriors) for the Carnifexes. Str 10 ap 4 assault 2 36" venom cannon, glances only - again with the fex.

18" str 10 ap 2 warp blast, bs3.

Hive tyrant str 6 +2d6, 6 attacks on a charge. Can move 12" in the movement phase. 2+ saves, T6, 4W.

24" Str6 blast templates, four per warrior sqaud.

^^ That, at tanks.

**avantgarde**

If you're really concerned about mech try to find room for a 3rd Thrope and a VC on the Flyrant. From my experience Zoanthropes always whiff when you need them the most.

The 2+ on the Carnifexes should be the first thing to drop, they're a little pricey right now at 200 for mediocre tank popping.

**Razerous**

I guess if I was really have problems, lower troops & remove the +1sv & +1T should net me enough points of an elite boom fex (or dakka fex) and a 3rd thrope.

As is standard, I think theres too many krak missiles flyring around and 2+ & T7 does keep it alive longer vs things like autocannons.

**drummerholt1234**

The Hive Tyrant has a T6 rather than a T5.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

Yeah, and consider swaping toxic Miasma for Adrenal Glands on your Flyrant, as they are cheaper.

**gameandwatch**

Honestly, krak missles are anoying, but if you were to run into them, you know most likely they are amin at your warriors and/or flyrant, as they are more early threats and global threats(IOW, the flyrant is obviously a problem early on and not to be wanted in CC with tanks, warriors are synapse for the troops and are then to be prime targets, the fexes are snipe fexes so are slow and although potentially hazerdous, most likely to be ignored as long as the other 2 are around). I would only give the fexes reinforced chitin, cheapest and another wound? hells YES!! maybe other ups, but you most likely wont need em. use those points to grab another throap

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I love the warriors, its how I run em and love em, T4, 2W eternal warrior= nasty ;D

**Razerous**

Ayup - You'd need 48 krak missiles fired to entirely kill one of those 5man warrior squads, down to the last model dead - Cover provided. Where-as you only need about 16-25 depending on cover to down a carnifex.

That +1t also helps with the woundings on str8 weaponary, of which I find there is alot of.

**Altimera**

Why would you ever take AG(WS) over toxic miasma?

AG(WS) is 2 points cheaper than toxic miasma...Taking TM on a HT means WS6 creatures fall down to hitting you on 4+, WS3 creatures fall down to 5+...TM is almost always better unless you can't find the 2 extra points for it.

**bigtmac68**

This could work pretty well at 1500 before the mech lists start to scale up. I think this type of list gets less effective the hight the point level, but it could be pretty nasty at 1500.

**Razerous**

About scaleability though - theres more room for another elite fex (or more tyranid warriors) and the warrior squads themselves can be scaled in size slightly.

Then I can start thinking about some stealers or/and hormagaunts.

**Altimera**

And you can start handing out wings to warriors too to fill out Fast Attack if you still have the points. Equip them like your other squads (minus the sv of course) and now you're getting side and rear shots at armor with S6

**Razerous**

Tyranid warriors equipped like that just wont work. My warriors as current rely on cover-saves from the gaunts & a 4+ armor save to defy small-arms and/or light anti-cover flamers. If the winged warriors try to fly off they will get brought down by boltguns, sadly. They will price up as too expensive to out-weight by sheer volume.

Larger point games would see two large non-WoN gaunt broods (instead of current), a 14ppm hormagaunt brood & a 1-2 scuttling genestealers aswell as either an elite fex or a fourth warrior squad.

Although demolisher (read - assault leman russes) will provide a very hard target to deal with.

(Gah - I type like a dead blind rabbit somtimes)

**kirsanth**

Razerous wrote: or/and hormagaunts.

Just no.

Spore mines will serve you better than hormagants.

I would take a few less gaunts and make all three broods W/O# you always have the options to NOT bring them on in games where it KP matter.

I would also consider (espcially for ramping up points) a second tyrant with guard for the HQ instead of warriors.
Cover saves on a Hive Tyrant are pretty fun.

**Razerous**

*Sigh*

kirsanth wrote:
Razerous wrote: or/and hormagaunts.

Just no.

Spore mines will serve you better than hormagants.

I would take a few less gaunts and make all three broods W/O# you always have the options to NOT bring them on in games where it KP matter.

I would also consider (espcially for ramping up points) a second tyrant with guard for the HQ instead of warriors.
Cover saves on a Hive Tyrant are pretty fun.

Spore mines are actually much more ineffective than everything, really.

14ppm hormagaunts wound T4 on 4's, hit ws4 on 3+ and have 3 attacks on a charge & they strike @ I5.. They will also get into combat extremely quickly. The put on average 3 glances vs a combat speed moving vehicle. There isnt much which can withstand a charge from these guys. A dredenought is one of those few!

Is that genestealers I hear? Well yes, ofcourse. Another use for the hormagaunt brood is to tie up units while the slower genestealers get into combat.

The gaunts - Why do I want the same choice three times? I need bodies on the field. I also need to be able to send bodies back to my home back and/or retain some scoring ability - I can very easily do this with what ive got now. I do not need to spend more points on fewer bodies for redundancy.

Read the OP. Tyrant + guards are soley a CC afair (well yes my current tyrant is a CC dude) - But he is only there to deal with fast skimmers and/or AV14/14/14.

**kirsanth**

Razerous wrote:*Sigh*

Quoting the only relevant part that I read in your response.

Sorry for wasting you time, but I am not speaking from guesswork.

**drummerholt1234**

kirsanth wrote:
Razerous wrote: or/and hormagaunts.

Just no.

Spore mines will serve you better than hormagants.

I would take a few less gaunts and make all three broods W/O# you always have the options to NOT bring them on in games where it KP matter.

I would also consider (espcially for ramping up points) a second tyrant with guard for the HQ instead of warriors.
Cover saves on a Hive Tyrant are pretty fun.

Razerous is right spore minds are useless. WoN is good... but there is no need for so many squads with it. I say two max. His 6 warrior brood is alot more effective for what he wants to do with it. Good list and I like how I finally saw someone other than me equip the warriors different for wound allocation great job!!!

**kirsanth**

WoN has less do do with the issue than spamming spinegants without it.

The list in question, to quote:

Troops
20 x Gaunts
+Spinefist = 100

20 x Gaunts
+Spinefist = 100

11x Gaunts
+Spine fist
+With out number = 88

was silly.

My statement (as I read it) that was brought up in contention, was that spore mines > hormies.

I will maintain that.

Hormies can be utterly negated by placing units upstairs.

Or shooting them.

Or having defensive grenades.

Or having them in synapse for combat resolution.

Or need them to make a cover save (or make one).

Or replacing them in equal points with ANYTHING IN THE SAME CODEX.

AP3 barrage shots that can run (and have at 3 blast hits per shot/ds).

Or having them sink point into broods of them thinking the rest of the issues don't matter if you ... use more?

Or wait. I know. Put 14point per model into a unit with 1wound, 5+sv, 2a, NO RAGED ATTACK (oh yea but it can run without drawback!), and a bonus to penalize itself on combat resolution? And you add the idea that units can HELP it die in combat resolution? Sure the I5 is nice, but really come on. Do the math.
I have.

and then I played with them.

Spore mines, for 36 points, get 3blast barrage shots, pinning, ap3, str3 (meq wounds5 w/ no save unless INSIDE area terrain)

point for point I think you are wrong.
I have never seen 36 points of Hormies take out what a barrage of bio-acid spores CAN kill.

even average I think you miss armor to make your comparison. But maybe my math is wrong.

shrug

edting to add
The reason for the number of w/o # its to claim objectives, which I had hoped was obvious. Taking ANY unit from the table results in that unit standing on (one of)the objective('s that you as a non-idiot player) placed near you table edge, makes it almost impossible to hold in general play. Tyranids going second are pretty hard to beat, w/o #.

**drummerholt1234**

Umm.....

They are kill points.....

Thats like saying lets give up a kill point to try to kill something. And plus a good player will shoot them if they scatter or will not be bunched up to fill the effect of them. Plus they may be a AP3 but they only have a S3. And then you have to hope to get them in by reserves...and what if they scatter into your troops and your opponent shoots them???? of now your own troops are dead...

**Drummerboy**

Well not that very many players seem to play for fun & fluff as much as they use to back in 3rd edition (when I last played competitively), but I've always used biovores and/or spore mines with my nids. They are just fluffy and regardless of what most people say on here my opponents will often change their game plan because of them ie having to move around them or won't fire due to one being close. I've also always made my points back on biovores, especially against IGEQ's so I'm a little biased.

I like your list overall, I like lists with warriors. They are awesome models. I personally would sack the HQ warriors and the gaunts for genestealers. Gaunts never really pay off for me though. Good Luck and props for something different.

**Kirbinator**

I honestly wasn't aware the whole "Hormagaunts are garbage" thing was even debated any more. 10pts a model for garbage, 14pts for mediocre and still dies to a cold glare.

Spore mines are fantastic, I've had my 120pt battlewagon wrecked because of a stupid 12pt Acid Mine. For anyone whining about Kill Points, that can be bothersome, but doesn't apply to 2/3 of the missions you play. Further, if your opponent or the judge overall counts them as kill points then it also means they can run and contest objects. Bombarding objectives with S3 AP3 pinning blasts that ignore cover is fun.

Assault flyrants are remarkably underwhelming most of the time. They get ripped to shreds by hidden powerfists, lascannons, plasma, and melta. 18" threat range isn't much, especially against faster or plentiful mech lists. I always use the tried and true dakka flyrant. Only two less attacks than the assault flyrant against vehicles and such, but with a nasty 12 fully re-rolling shots giving it a 30" threat range. Keeps you out of trouble most of the time and keeps you in the fight for more of the game. Getting 18" away from the Tyrant isn't that difficult. Getting 30" away is.

**Razerous**

kirsanth wrote: Lotsa stuff. Also rude.

The actual biovores take up heavy support slots & they are (atm full) generally covereted for the good choices. Biovores are also insanely weak.

Yes you can shoot at hormies. Thankfully they will have a cover-save. You can shoot at genestealers too..? Um....

What exactly gets defensive grenades? Okay - Ill avoid that.

Have them in synapse for combat resolution? What? They will be winning combats, silly, so they shouldnt suffer No retreat! wounds.

Things get shot at, in any army.

- OKay, what can do what hormagaunts can do? Please dont say gargoyles.

I have done the math. What math are you doing? What exactly is happening in your various deathly grissly situations?

& Yes, I have played with them also. You are quite tiresome.. you dont actually have as many points as you seem to think, please stop trying to make so many.

Spore mines are, as has rightly been said before, Kp on a stick. I know there are suicide squads used in 40k but if they are left alone, they can go run & contest objectives etc & are not 1-wound squads.

Go on - do the math. Space marines specifically are much better left to shooting (we all know this) as they dont get run down - they either stay in combat, flee but turn around or flee & double-tap boltguns into your ranks. But go for it.

When you remove gaunts (I always played it as, when the squad dies, rather than it being a choice) you can place them back on a board table edge. Now you need to lurk/GtG them until you can run Synapse-control back to allow them to become scoring units. Whilst you can remove ANY (< Huh? Caps..?) WoN gaunt brood, if you bought them all with WoN, to be placed on the table egde... Why cant you be content with just removing ONE brood?

Now with the two remaining larger broods (which are larger beacuse they cost less) can start capturing/contesting opponent placed objectives. Also, very importantly, I need cheap mobile cover. Gaunt>Warrior>Carnifex tiered cover system works nicely.

**gameandwatch**

@Razerous: I would say if you were to scale this up, dotn worry about heavy mech, too many people are going crazy about heavy mech especially IG thinking its the new invincible group, they are just a fad cause the new codex is out, and everyone is basically playing the same cut and paste army, where is the fun in that? I bet if you go to ard' boyz or GD, you would see probably 75 to 80% of armies are just that.

Scaling up, you would remove the warrior HQ, get two tyrants with 3 gaurds, preferably dakkarants with CC defenses like TM and Gaurd with one or two or 3 lash whips, then have 3 maxed out wound allocation warrior squads, 9 warriors, 18 wounds, 19 wounds at once to kill them? yikes... unsaved that is, and as for the hormagaunt question, they are simply too fragile and WAY to expensive to use, and as for spore mines... free KPs are not a good thing, especially with the ammunition of a gun... dont use either...

As for WoN, it can def help to have 3 with it, but when you are screenin tons like you are, at max 2 would be sufficient, I might actually say have 2, the larger brood behind the first WoN and when they die, they come back on,take the rear objective while the other WoN is behind the 20 gaunt screen to grab middle objectives and such, KP missions, just dont deploy them

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And not to critisize you but do the math, for every 14 pt hormagaunt you get almost 3 gaunts, ID say its better to just have gaunts, otherwise you are implying they will win combats, problem is even with all those attacks, they have no wound ignoring roles, meaning against things with armor 2+ 3+ or otherwise superior combat troops, or getting them permalocked with a dread till they die, or getting permalocked with a monstrous creature, like I said too fragile and EXPENSIVE to use...

**Razerous**

Im not too much of a fan of Tyrants with guard.. Only for the need to kill fast-moving skimmers & landraiders.. both of which can avoid a Tyrant+guard combo.

Maxing out on the warriors is definetly a thing to do but past 5-6 models it starts getting difficult/expensive to equip them unqiuely - Hence the current four sqauds.

I guess I need to find out how quickly an opponents army can chew through 2x20 guants to see if I need more WoN.

As for hormagaunts.. (thier not even included, its only a possibility at higher scales & this thread isnt about them But..). I'll let it go. They do do damage and more importantly they do it from very far away. Rending genestealers are, though, awesome.

**Altimera**

I love the winged HT...but in larger games having the 2walkrants with 3 guard each is a great way to fill out points.

Question about the hormagaunt..and sorry about derailing. You say you use 14ppm, is that TS and both AG? Or do you prefer the TS, AG(I), and flesh hooks? I've been wanting to run them recently in spite of the hate for them...actually, because of the hate for them.

**Razerous**

A 14ppm hormagaunt consists of;

Adrenal Glands - +1ws

Adrenal Glands - +1I

Toxin Sacs - +1Str

Flesh-hooks are an optional extra and worthy if you always play in a high-terrain environment.

The thing about walkrants, while they can be quite offensively effective & insanely hard to kill, they do-not combat a major weakness of Tyranids; Dealing with AV14 & fast mobile vehicles.

Edit: Just like to add that while heavy flamers are a threat.. very large bubbles of movement impeeding gaunts help to counter this. But weapons like those found on the Eradicator Leman Russ & the hellhound tank will slaughter massive chunks of my army, especially the former Leman russ. Being such a relatively model-high army, scattering blasts will hit somthing to atleast some effect. Kinda why im fielding a squadren of two in my IG army (just need to mod-plasti-plate the barrels). When all the kuffufle about WTF-awesome-pwn mech dies down, other armie genres will leap up and the true scaryness of hordes will again be apparent.

**Lorgar's_Blessed**

Razerous wrote:
kirsanth wrote: Lotsa stuff. Also rude.

What exactly gets defensive grenades? Okay - Ill avoid that.

Have them in synapse for combat resolution? What? They will be winning combats, silly, so they shouldnt suffer No retreat! wounds.

Things get shot at, in any army.

One of the biggest cheese armies in the game. Congrats, you fail versus lash.

Okay, you're insane to think that those puny little bugs are going to be winning combats. They'll be causing, say, 10-20 wounds, depending on the model count. Now, if you're able to get that squad there to be able to cause 20 wounds, then the opponent wants you to, so I'm going to assume you're fighting Khorne Berzerkers. THEY'LL dish out an equal amount if not greater amount of wounds.

Ignoring what I just said, any INTELLIGENT BEING would shoot at that brood IMMEDIATELY when they get within range, cover saves be damned. I hate to break this to you, but a squad of marines rapid firing their bolters is going to kill half your squad, not including that flamer denying you cover, cover saves be damned. I'd love to play your hormagaunts in a game, I'd laugh as I killed them in cover as they marched up the field and then you had nothing when you got to me.

**drummerholt1234**

Hmmm... People seem to forget that they have a total move between 19-24"and what is the range of a bolter? 24" oh gak I dont get to double tap you with my bolter... Oh gak I'm in combat... YOu hit on 3+ and Wound on 4+ and a good nid player will have them with a Feeder Tendril Support so reroll hit... Own-age!

And plus we are Tyranid players we want you shooting our gaunts because thats something not shooting our MC!

**Razerous**

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:
Razerous wrote:
kirsanth wrote: Lotsa stuff. Also rude.

What exactly gets defensive grenades? Okay - Ill avoid that.

Have them in synapse for combat resolution? What? They will be winning combats, silly, so they shouldnt suffer No retreat! wounds.

Things get shot at, in any army.

One of the biggest cheese armies in the game. Congrats, you fail versus lash.

Okay, you're insane to think that those puny little bugs are going to be winning combats. They'll be causing, say, 10-20 wounds, depending on the model count. Now, if you're able to get that squad there to be able to cause 20 wounds, then the opponent wants you to, so I'm going to assume you're fighting Khorne Berzerkers. THEY'LL dish out an equal amount if not greater amount of wounds.

Ignoring what I just said, any INTELLIGENT BEING would shoot at that brood IMMEDIATELY when they get within range, cover saves be damned. I hate to break this to you, but a squad of marines rapid firing their bolters is going to kill half your squad, not including that flamer denying you cover, cover saves be damned. I'd love to play your hormagaunts in a game, I'd laugh as I killed them in cover as they marched up the field and then you had nothing when you got to me.

It would be nice of you to drop this stick as I have done the same.

Also, try to adhere to dakka rule #1 please.

But; 14 hormagaunts vs 12 bloodletters. I am assuming I will get the charge. 7 dead letters on the chagre to 2.25 dead gaunts < How is this winning? Next turn I mop up. I dont think you understand that while they dont have rending, sheer volume of attacks will bring down most units & most importantly they can avoid alot of firepower by staying behind cover aswell as leaping from beyond double tap range.

But, im not including hormagaunts. It will probably be genestealers for the tactical flexibility. Less boom per pt though.

Edit: Bah - ill stop being an advocate of the weakling but awesomely quick & combat winning hormagaunt genus and make a note that there shouldt be any close-combats going on except possibly by the WoN gaunts so they can recycle themselves - as I dont believe you can remove them from the board as a choice, I could be wrong.
There will be shooting & more shooting. Assaults from my shooty squads only if it can be won within a turn to allow for more subsequent shooting. The only true CC'er will be the tyrant.. which will be shooting its claws into landraiders & leman-russes.