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According to the BRB, any jump infantry can deepstrike (BRB p.52 Movement). Tyrants with wings are classified as both Monstrous Creatures and Jump Infantry.

Yes or no

Short answer...



Yes

Altimera wrote:Short answer...



Yes

Wow, way to ramble on

But yeah, Wings = Jump Infantry = Deep Strike

So how about models that can move as Jump Infantry but don't actually count as such? Think the CSM had some silly wargear for demon princes. :-)

No, if a Model moves as JI, but is NOT actually JI, they cannot Deep Strike.

Gwar! wrote:No, if a Model moves as JI, but is NOT actually JI, they cannot Deep Strike.

Deep striking is part of JI's movement rules. So indeed they can.

Webbe wrote:

Gwar! wrote:No, if a Model moves as JI, but is NOT actually JI, they cannot Deep Strike.

Deep striking is part of JI's movement rules. So indeed they can.

Errrm, so? "Move like Jump Infantry" does not mean "May enter from reserve like Jump Infantry".

Please, check the rules before posting.

Gwar! wrote:

Webbe wrote:

Gwar! wrote:No, if a Model moves as JI, but is NOT actually JI, they cannot Deep Strike.

Deep striking is part of JI's movement rules. So indeed they can.

Errrm, so? "Move like Jump Infantry" does not mean "May enter from reserve like Jump Infantry".

I firmly disagree.


P1. Deep Striking is movement (I can prove that for you if necessary).
P2. Deep Striking is movement allowed to Jump Infantry (it is even found in the "movement" section of the Jump Infantry rules).
P3. Creatures with Wings move as Jump Infantry (ergo they follow all the rules for Jump Infantry Movement).

C1. Models with Wings may therefore Deep Strike.



Also, if you ever wonder why so many of the threads you post in tend to end up having to be locked perhaps you could refrain from posting things like this:

Please, check the rules before posting.

I could say the same thing to you from my perspective, but does that accomplish anything? Absolutely not. The only thing it does accomplish is to generate a negative response to your post. Remove these types of barbs from your posts and I guarantee the number of issues with others will diminish.

No offence, but the term "Move Like Jump Infantry" does not say "Follow ALL the movement rules for Jump Infantry". If they wanted that, they would have said "Follow all the Rules for Jump Infantry."

But, it is a pointless discussion, you are the owner. I disagree I get banned. So, ok, Yakface is right, if only because he outranks me.

Gwar! wrote:No offence, but the term "Move Like Jump Infantry" does not say "Follow ALL the movement rules for Jump Infantry". If they wanted that, they would have said "Follow all the Rules for Jump Infantry."

But, it is a pointless discussion, you are the owner. I disagree I get banned. So, ok, Yakface is right, if only because he outranks me.

First of all, disagreeing with me will never get anyone anything! It has nothing to do with disagreeing or not, I was pointing out that you have included a needless sentence that insinuates that the person you are discussing with has failed to read the rules before posting, an assumption that you cannot know for sure and worse would have almost assuredly meant that the person you were discussing with would come back with a negative barb at you, etc, etc, etc, until the thread would have to be locked.

I was merely pointing out that if you remove such a barb from your post nothing of content changes and you are less likely to cause a flame war.



But back to the actual discussion:

The rules for Jump Infantry MOVING (i.e. the section entitled "Movement" in the Jump Infantry rules) is where a Jump Infantry model is granted the ability to Deep Strike, so clearly Deep Striking is a movement rule for Jump Infantry.

How can you possibly claim that when Jump Infantry is granted the ability to Deep Strike in their movement rules this is somehow not a rule for Jump Infantry movement?

"Hormagaunts are beasts, as detailed on page xx of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook."

"Raveners are exceptionally fast and as such follow the rules for Beasts on page xx of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook."

By Gwar's interpretation, Raveners are not beasts but they do follow the rules for beasts. Hurray, my Ravs can climb up buildings! Oh wait, they can't. Why? Because they follow the rules for Beasts.

Things with Jump Pack Infantry movement are not classified as Jump Pack Infantry, but move as they do. Deep Striking is a movement, for example deep striking a vehicle counts as "moving at cruising speed."

Yakface being the owner doesn't mean he's wrong, and he's far from someone who insists he's always right and then tells others to read the rules before posting.

Gwar! wrote:(P.S. You are only Wrong when you have all the facts and still get it incorrect, I just didn't read the Codex through Properly, and thus was Misinformed/Mistaken, not Wrong.)

Odd thing to say when constantly asking others to read the rules.

I was originally leaning towards saying because the rules only say "All jump infantry units may enter the battle by 'deep strike'" and the daemonic wings do not make a model a "jump infantry unit" it wouldn't be able to, but looking back over the full rules for jump infantry, it would be useless based on that argument.

"Jump infantry can use their jump packs and move up ot 12" in the movement phase."

this would mean if the deep strike rules didn't apply, neither would the move 12" rules.

While I feel it's not intended for daemonic wings to allow deep strike, I can't find a flaw in Yakface's argument, atleast not from my perspective, and there's no clear alternate RAI, just a feeling I have, so I suppose they can.

How funny would it be if someone made a signature of all the "Gwar! is wrong" posts, and it started with Yakface?

Gwar! wrote:But, it is a pointless discussion, you are the owner. I disagree I get banned. So, ok, Yakface is right, if only because he outranks me.

Wow, here it is for all the folks who've been waiting for it, Gwar is just plain wrong. Savor the moment, who knows when it will happen again.

*edit*D'oh, ninja'd.

Anyways, which models out there can move like Jump Infantry, but are not actually such?

Bookwrack wrote:

Gwar! wrote:But, it is a pointless discussion, you are the owner. I disagree I get banned. So, ok, Yakface is right, if only because he outranks me.

Wow, here it is for all the folks who've been waiting for it, Gwar is just plain wrong. Savor the moment, who knows when it will happen again.

No I am not wrong. Yakface just outranks me, so I can't be right.

Doesn't make me wrong (because I am not)

Dashofpepper wrote:How funny would it be if someone made a signature of all the "Gwar! is wrong" posts, and it started with Yakface?

That would be enjoyable. I found I was losing interest in logging into Dakka, but realized it was just not wanting to read Gwar's constant acidid, "im right, go read the rules" style of posting. Putting him on ignore has returned my love of reading dakka.

But I wouldn't mind seeing a collection of Gwar Bloopers.)

Bookwrack wrote:Anyways, which models out there can move like Jump Infantry, but are not actually such?

Chaos Lord With Wings

That's the sum total?

Bookwrack wrote:That's the sum total?

I think theres a blood angel psychic power that lets you move like jump infantry (... right before we start i'm going to see if i have the ability to move like jump infantry ... no, Ok we're walking on boys)

Aren't you guys arguing about the completely wrong rules?

The Tyranid codex says "Winged creatures are treated as Jump Infantry in all respects" so a winged hive tyrant is both a monstrous creature and jump infantry. Because it's jump infantry, it gets to deep strike if it wants.

It doesn't matter one bit whether a winged Chaos Lord moves as Jump Infantry or counts as Jump Infantry, since the rules for the wings in the CSM codex explicitly say that the model can deep strike.

Gwar! wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:

Gwar! wrote:But, it is a pointless discussion, you are the owner. I disagree I get banned. So, ok, Yakface is right, if only because he outranks me.

Wow, here it is for all the folks who've been waiting for it, Gwar is just plain wrong. Savor the moment, who knows when it will happen again.

No I am not wrong. Yakface just outranks me, so I can't be right.

Doesn't make me wrong (because I am not)

Oh my god. What a petulant childish response. Yakface has never pulled rank, as you are insinuating. Based on his responses, I find Yak worthy of respect; and find your treatment of his response to be insulting, unnecessary, and thoroughly unwarranted.

And yes, I have disagreed with Yak in the past, and expect will do so again.

And it is obvious that you don't consider yourself wrong, because when you do you conveniently disappear from the thread....

HEY HEY HEY everyone how bout reading solkan's post and stop arguing about nothing. He got it the Tyrant can deep strike Thank you come again.

Word, Solkan got it.

Gwar! wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:

Gwar! wrote:But, it is a pointless discussion, you are the owner. I disagree I get banned. So, ok, Yakface is right, if only because he outranks me.

Wow, here it is for all the folks who've been waiting for it, Gwar is just plain wrong. Savor the moment, who knows when it will happen again.

No I am not wrong. Yakface just outranks me, so I can't be right.

Doesn't make me wrong (because I am not)

Just wow.

And of course it's absolutely impossible that the guy with the troll avatar didn't say that specifically to rile people up.

SO back on topic; The Nid Codex on Pg 33 says any unit with this biomorph are treated as Jump Infantry in every respect. In the main rulebook Pg 52 jump infantry may enter the game via deep strike.

4th edition may have had something in there that only units with the deep strike rule could do it but that is no longer the case.

Bookwrack wrote:And of course it's absolutely impossible that the guy with the troll avatar didn't say that specifically to rile people up.

Well of course he did. Still doesn't mean it doesn't get fething annoying after awhile. There's a place to be the internet jackass, but sometimes it's nice to have a civil discussion without internet shenanigans. All things in moderation I guess would be the best response?

I think the original question has been answered, I don't think a giant Gwar!-bash fest has to ensue. Especially not after Yakface bans him for disagreein' wit' da boss.