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Whats a good size for Calvary?

Coldone Knights?

Chaos Knights?

Chaos Marauder?

Tomb King heavy calvary?

5.

Too many means you're wasting points.

It depends, are they for flanking, or for smashing. If the first, I'd use 5 with only a musician. However, If you want to use them to outright attack, than 6-7 with command. You really shouldn't need a second rank, relying on damage to overcome rank/rank/rank/outnumber.

I played fantasy for quite some time before making the plunge, and I found that my cavalry did best in units of 6. Nice wide frontage to guarantee that you get all of your attacks off, and enough punch even if you lose a knight on your way up the board. It's a nice bit of padding to the standard '5-man' squad, but doesn't waste ridiculous amounts of points on a second rank. Because with cav, a second rank is paying through the nose for +1 combat resolution, when you're relying on wounds to break enemies down.

Also, never take a standard, but that should be obvious. Champions can be lovely, providing more of what we love - Killy power! Also, the option of challenging, especially on the turn you charge, is always a bonus.

I'd say there's times to take a standard- especially if it's something that will directly boost your combat res (even better if you can take a War banner), and you plan to bring a character along. This will help ensure you are breaking enemies on the charge.

RZ

I would say always 5-6 (unless their Brettonians). I feel that anything over this is going to result in an excessive amount of points or models that will never fight. If you want a rank bonus for your cavalry then play Brettonians. If they are fast cav then I say a Musician only (excluding a Champion with Repeater Pistol in a Pistolier unit), otherwise in normal Cav units I say full command. The extra Str 5+ attack on the charge, +1 CR (+bonuses for standards), and the potential tie-breaker in a musician are worth the cost.

The exclusions to this rule of mine would be Dragon Princes, Cold ones cav, and any other cav unit with a base of 2 attacks. Since a Unit of 5 is going to have at least 10 base attacks (before mounts and characters) the points spent on a champion could be better spent elsewhere. The musician and standard are still necessary. I don't know how many times (even in infantry units) that the musician has saved my neck. Some people are in the school of thought that buying a musician or standard is in a way admitting defeat, but I look at it through the perspective of CR. If you are getting +1 CR after combat, or by winning the combat by 1 because of the musician you have earned the points back. Even if things go pear-shaped then the bonus to your Ld could make the difference between returning or not.

I think characters dramatically upgrade the strength of a 5 man unit regardless of the race played. Having a couple of extra attacks at a greater WS could swing the combat in your favor. It's common sense that cavalry are effective on the charge. By adding a character and paying for unit upgrades your are increasing the odds that your Cavalry are spending the game thundering across the field instead of hacking left to right while being overwhelmed by larger units.

5 for fast cav
6 for killer cav
15 for tomb king heavy cav (they are treated as a ranked unit that moves 8, not a cav unit)

Musicians are always worth it. Champ/std in a cav unit are usually overpriced and if you need it your in trouble anyways and dont want to be giving it away.

Here's the problem with full command on Knights.

Usually, your opponent should bring some nice anti-armor of some sort (War-Machine, Magic, etc.) That can kill knights before they get into combat. This becomes a terrible waste of points, IMHO.

P.S. When did Cold One Knights get 2 Attacks? My Armybook says 1.

caldron, gives +1 attack to someone when it becomes important.

Oh, the Cold One's Attacks.

That's my fear about a standard in units of knights. It's awfully easy to break a unit of knights if you survive the initial charge, and then you just picked yourself up an extra banner. Those 100 VPs are a liability, in my opinion.

5 cold one knights with standard of slaughter. You will almost always break the enemy you are charging.

If you are using heavy knights (Inner circle Empire, Chaos knights, dragon princes) I cannot fathom why you would leave a full command behind, maybe leave out the champ to save points.

And I'd always take 6 of that cav type, with the exception of chaos knights who would be 5 as they have so many attacks and are so expensive.

At 6 they can take a death and still hammer most opponents.

As for light cav... always 5 and only a muso as they will be used for march block and bait and flee.

Cryonicleech wrote:Oh, the Cold One's Attacks.

I was thinking of LM's Cold One Cavalry. My bad.

If you're worried about losing VPs to a lost standard than make sure that you can realistically break on the charge. If you have 6 knights, Full Command, and no Characters in a unit and you are going in against a unit of infantry with a starting CR of 5 then you're probably in trouble. Also bring two units of Heavy Cav. If you don't go balls out on upgrades and banners then you should be able to afford two units. Even two units side by side supported by at least one character, charging a unit should be able to break anything outside of Stubborn, Unbreakable, Undead, or just plain lucky units.

What happens if you have a unit that loses by one and then breaks and is run down? I'm pretty sure that standard cost less than the whole unit. Same with musician. I think the most expensive Musician upgrade belongs to Dragon Princes (20pts?), maybe Blood Knights? I think spending 20pts on an upgrade is well worth it if it can save your butt during CR solutions and Rallying, but hey that's my opinion on the matter.

Thanks guys , 6 it is! Needed to know so i know how many command groups to convert.

Example of Chaos Knights:
Unit of infantry 20 man strong. Knights charge lets say 6 but only 5 are in contact. Your opponent has 3 CR points already if he has a banner 4. If you dont kill 8 your opponent gets outnumber bonus so he is at 5 now. 10 attacks ws 5 str 5 normaly hits on 3 wounding on 2 to 3s. Lets say you roll average 7 hits. 2+ you get 5 to 6 wounds. at -2 to their save. Lets asume they have 5+ sv now. From 6 wounds they should save 2 leaving you causing 4 wounds. Guess what you just lost combat by 1. If you had taken a banner you would be at 5 with musician you would have won.

Ive seen this happen to many times so i started taking my knights with a musician and banner. Dont use a champion because just to expensive for the +1 attack.

Fast cav die extremly fast. Usually by the time i get them within warmachine crews i hacve 1 to 3 left. So i only take musicians for baiting and rally.

I like 5 wide ranks because at 6 you lose mobility. Wielding 6 knights compared to 5 knights is a big difference. Also the 6th knight usually doesnt make it into base contact.

rlsquarred2:
Why aren't you getting your 6th knight in?

Vs 20mm base troops 5 wide (almost every infantry unit) they will be 100mm wide... 6 knights (25mm each) is 150mm wide and should allow the 4 middle knights in with the guys on the end touching corners.

Also why didn't the knights horses get to attack? That would be another wound there.
Knights without banner = lame.
Now you win, they need double 1's to stay in combat... JOY!

K , now moving on repeater cross bow

What size do you field them in? Should i throw them a shield to get 4+ save in melee ? Is 10x2 deployed for shooting , then 5x4 when ranked up for melee a good idea?

How about corsairs and witch elves? They look similar to xbow but with more melee goodness?

All DE infantry should be in 2 Ranks of 7 each. This maximises combat potential and gets as many attacks as possible.

Some people don't like shields on Crossbowmen. I wouldn't put them on. A waste of points for a unit that won't see combat and if it does it will be screwed.

If your x-bowmen are in melee then something has very seriously gone wrong.

12 x-bowmen put out 24 shots, are still small enough to string out a couple of units on your base line in single ranks and fit well on most hills in 2 ranks with room for a RBT.

I'd avoid shields, buy mor x-bowmen and shoot your opponents.

I'd concur on giving the shields a pass. On something like Dwarf shooters, it's a good call. For Dark Elves, that's points better spent elsewhere.

RZ

I dunno , i never played ranged Fantasy army before.
they were all either magic , or war machines :'p

What would the xbow people do when everything is locked in combat or if they are charged? Also they cant shoot thru other units making them even more limited :/
And whats a good effective amount to have before they turn into a burden?
And do they work best in sync with repeater bolt throwers?

Well if you can get them up on a hill, you can see over interposing units, while being able to fire in two ranks, so that's quite helpful.

As far as working with a bolt thrower... sure. They're going to be in roughly the same part of the field. The bolt thrower is better for armor and tough targets, and so on.

Crossbows will help nail things going for quarters or trying to swing for flanks. The high volume of low strength shots are ideally suited towards dropping fast cav and such. Get them to two cavalry models, and you've trimmed enough to retain ranks. No that you're too worried about ranks with all the super-killy stuff DE have.

RZ

I would say 2 units of 10-12 would be the most you would want. Anymore than 12 it will be hard to move them around. Anymore than 2 units, and it will be hard to get LoS.

If they can't shoot because everthing is locked, they move to stay alive post combat, or to get good shots when the combat is over. They don't cost that much, but they still score for table quarters. Keep them alive. If they are assaulted flee. Only stand and shoot vs very small fast cav units, or if you would flee off the board.

Bolt throwers are meant to take out armor, and monsters. Xbows are meant to take out ranked infantry, and fast cav. Working together means your throwers are safer from flyers/fast cav going war machine hunting. Meaning that your bolt throwers will get to shoot at units with good armor or toughness.