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Basically, these things are awesome.

My thinking is, the best way to utilize them is with either deep-striking lictors (atleast 2) or - and this is my favourite - a broodlord with fleshhooks with a retinue of genestealers with feeder-trendrils. The broodlord has +1str, +1sv & flesh hooks (the squad could do with 6 I7 power attacks with assault grenades, if the rest have to have feeder trendrils, if they assault through cover). The stealers have +1sv, +1str & feeder tendrils @ 24pts/model. They all infiltrate & are supported by bugs with many attacks, preferably ones that can get into assault quickly.

If this a viable idea? The impact of feeder-tendrils is massive on many-attack tyranid broods. There are obvious advantages to re-rolling to hit with models with rending (again, stealers) 66/100 sucessful attacks becomes 88/100 when hitting on 3+'s (50/100 - 75/100 for hitting on 4+'s).

Due to the wording of the rule.. I think you need to have a relatively large footprint squad to give the widest possible area the Prefered enemy USR, as the 2" is based on proximity to the specific model with the biomorph.

Could feeder tendrils work with Nidzillas type bugs? Do they have enough attacks, for example; A dual sything talon tyrant? Possibly with tyrant guard = surviveable models with some decent attack power.

Thoughts?

Hrmmm, I dunno if I would like to give up his retinues' flesh hooks so increase the footprint, but I see what you want to do there. I think it would be interesting to try this, and I might have to. Reading the wording of the rules on feeder tendrils made me realize that just because the BL has tendrils, doesn't mean his retinue will always get the bonus. Anyway, I love my flyrant rerolling to hit because of the nearby feeder tendrils.

So let's see, hormagaunts, some gaunts, bunch of GS with tendrils (at least 2 large sized broods, 3 ideal, some carnifex for tank stunning...I'll post a list sometime tomorrow unless you already have one in mind.

In terms of the retinue getting preffered enem; The retinue counts as a brood, that brood (as a whole) will always be within 2" of the broodlord.

That broodlord can help its own retinue aswell as another single squad, positioned properly - but no more than that. The good thing about this squad is that it can infiltrate, getting in towards the enemy lines quickly. The above combo would work well with a jump infantry/beast type unit.

Otherwise, a genestealer feeder tendril foot-print squad combined with other high-attack high-Inative & relative-strength bugs...

..I say this because you still need to win combat.. If you deal 30 wounds but take 45 in return, you loose overall, even if you've doubled your killing potential. I4 minimum, I5 preferable with a str4 minimum. Str3 is just too weak for alot of reasons.

Gaunts may just be too fragile, slow & weak. Possibly useful for a cover-screen but youve got to be careful to avoid blocking assault avenues. Tyrant + guard could provide a good cover shield, the larger (and larger) bases the models in that squad are based on will provide a fairly large length-ways cover-screen, helpful for genestealers.

I personally prefer to take my broodlord with the feeder tendrils then give his retinue acid maw. All the normal stealers get re-rolls to hit AND wound, maximizing potential for some great rend rolls. Of course when assaulting into cover then you could end up screwed, but a smart nid player should have units free to deal with the stuff in cover and leave this power unit to deal with guys that are easily assaulted (i.e. not in cover)

Unfortunately there is a slight problem with giving tyrants re-rolls. The wording in the rules prevent him getting it since it only provides re-rolls to broods. As far as I'm aware the tyrant is the only model that isn't classified with the word brood.

Razerous wrote:In terms of the retinue getting preffered enem; The retinue counts as a brood, that brood (as a whole) will always be within 2" of the broodlord.

Teach me to post while under the influence. Yeah, I reread the rule while drunk and thought "Wow, I've been playing it wrong with his retinue"

Hmm...I didn't realize that the Tyrant wouldn't get the benefit due to the wording...reading the entry for both the HT and his guard: it seems like neither would benefit as they are they only two entries that don't say "brood" anywhere, However, isn't "brood" just another word for "unit" in the tyranid codex?

May not be the best place to reveal this, but I just came up witht the funniest and best retinue for the BL the other day and playtested it last night, and it was totally rediculous... Ok so hes an IC, the only one in fact in all of nids, so what can I do, give him feeder tendrils, +1S and a retinue of 24 spinegaunts!!

have him join the gaunt squad first turn and he has a bullet shield of 24 wounds, this worked even btter of course because with scuttlers and infiltrate they were slightly ahead of the main force, it took an avatar plus a 5 man dire avenger squad with bladestorm to get rid of the retinue, which happened after the avatar died and died by rerolling spine gaunts no less, and then the entire avenger squad died via angry broodlord... TRY IT!!

He has to be bought with a retinue of at least 5 genestealers. You'd have to lose the genestealers before he can join another brood.

He can infiltrate. His own brood (genestealers) can infiltrate with him. He cannot join any other squad & infiltrate with them.

I maybe have to agree about the Hive Tyrant.. but sure'ly he's a brood too? But then perhaps thats why the rule was worded as it was.. he's the only exception to the rule.

Taking RAW into account I think that it's best to abide by the rules. It could be a typo, but since it hasn't been errata"ed" I don't see any way around it. Maybe it's on purpose anyway, since the hive tyrant is a pretty mean machine even without the re-rolls.

Indeed. It does seem to make sense as the Feeder tendrils mention broods & the hive tyrant is the only non-brood model.

My think is though;

You need a cover screen which can now effectively (as these get the prefered enemy bonous)

1) Gaunts, cheaper option but weak in melee due to low base str & low I

2) Carnifexes - Dependable on how many cover they actually provide, being only single-model units

3) Warriors - Wound allocation equipped with +1sv. Deathspitters could well be a good choice, to lay down firepower on the way in.

Now these above tactics can then be employed to work with an ideal assault troop. My monies on hormagaunts for 14ppm or genestealers for 19ppm. The genestealers have rending, the other stat bonouses are largerly moot, in most cases. The hormagaunts have beast, meaning they can charge from a fairly obscene distance.

Now, taking the above into concideration & also assuming the offensive abilities of hormagaunts & genestealers to be relative.. what mix of each would be appropriate? Im thinking a Flyrant, two warrior broods (wound allocation, 5 models, deathspitters) and an elite cc fex aswell as a broodlord & genestealer retinue (all with improved saves). Troop wise, 1-2 squads of hormagaunts & 2-3 squads of feeder-tendril genestealers.

Razerous wrote:Basically, these things are awesome.

Could feeder tendrils work with Nidzillas type bugs? Do they have enough attacks, for example; A dual sything talon tyrant? Possibly with tyrant guard = surviveable models with some decent attack power.

Thoughts?

Hey. I'm a Tyranid Through & Through. I ALWAYS run Lictors! I combine the assaults with either a Brood of Genestealers or whatever MC I have to hand. Most often is my Winged Tyrant. Mainly because of it's mobility (winged tyrant with 2 sets of Talons). Lictors on there own in my experience just get shot to pieces or beaten up after killing a few guys.
I don't generally combine my assaults with a Broodlord though, as I tend to give my Broodlord Feeder Tendrils too. This gives me more units with them and/or more opportunity to get some big nasty creatures into the combats.
Generally I run My Stealers with Ex Carapace & Flesh Hooks so they can assault into cover, are a bit tougher, then when they assault with a Lictor they still get the re-roll to hit! YES! Mayhem!

In short - Get your Lictors into combat with your big guys, failing that, throw some Stealers in there...!

I think weve established Klueless that the Hive Tyrant is the only non-brood model in the Tyranid codex. Feeder tendrils specifically state the need for atleast a single model + brood.

Besides that, fair doos. I think I try to need to work out a balance between FT's & troops making use of them.

Oh s**t yeah. Well, i don't think I'll be mentioning that to anyone that doesn't query it.
That kinda sucks really. I will definitely be keeping that one a close guarded secret. I must have killed so many Marines claiming that special rule applied!
Throw the carnifex in there in then, if the Tyrant & Licor don't finished them all off first, they should hold things up long enough for the Carnifex to benefit from the FT rule.

I find feeder tendrils work great on most nid units. Re-rolls for charging warriors can be devastating (even if they are shooty they should still be getting 4 attacks on the charge) and even more so if you softenthem up with deathspitters before hand. Gaunts are a waste, but pretty much any other unit can get great benefit from it.

Hey all! I'm an old nid player just getting back into the hobby after about a 7-year absence. Over the week that I've been back, I've been trying to figure out what to do with my army after getting utterly pasted in 2 of the 3 games I played while trying to force-fit my old armies into the new rules. I discovered genestealers yesterday (the only non-nid-pasting game), and I'm all about some crazy speed. I love the idea of maximizing feeder tendrils' usefulness. With all the things mentioned in this thread in mind, I threw together a quick and very rough 2000 point army list just to get everyone's juices flowing. I guess this might belong in the army lists forum, but it seemed germane here. Anyway, see what you think:

214 pts. Hive Tyrant - wings, enhanced senses, implant attack, toxic miasma, toxin sacs, 2 twin-linked devourers, warp field
96 pts. Broodlord - feeder tendrils, extended carapace, flesh hooks, toxin sacs
220 pts. 11 Genstealers (retinue) - extended carapces
160 pts. 2 Lictors
64 pts. 8 Spinegaunts - without number
64 pts. 8 Spinegaunts - without number
160 pts. 8 Genestealers - feeder tendrils, scuttlers
140 pts. 7 Genestealers - feeder tendrils, scuttlers
140 pts. 7 Genestealers - feeder tendrils, scuttlers
266 pts. 6 Raveneres - 3 rending/scything, 3 double scything, 2 devourers, 2 deathspitters (mixed and matched to take advantage of wound allocation)
130 pts. 2 Zoanthropes - warp blast, synapse
339 pts. 3 Carnifexes - barbed strangler, scything talons


Some initial thoughts:

I like the Tyrant, but man is he expensive. Maybe you could take off implant attacks? Would scything talons be more useful than the devourers? That'd give room for another Genestealer.

Lictors...well, stat-wise, they look like total junk. That reserve reroll sure is awesome in an army like this, though, and Hit and Run with S6 could be pretty cool. If nothing else, you could tie up a squad for a turn so your deep strikers don't get mauled quite as badly.

I've literally never used Raveners, so I'm not quite sure what to expect from them. They seem quite a lot better now that they don't get instakilled and you can spread wounds around on them. They have a little bit of firepower now, too. That's always nice. Are they worth the points, though? They seem pretty expensive. Still, with that many (presumably rerollable) attacks, they sound fun enough to at least try out.

Are the Carnifexes okay? This army is woefully short on shooty things, so I figured they were essential. The fact they benefit from the tendrils is a nice bonus if they ever make it across the board. Should they be tooled up more at the expense of a Ravener? I sure have enjoyed giving them 7 toughness, but whatever works.

I'm not terribly comfortable with how small the genestealer units are. That another thing that might warrant pumping up at the Raveners' expense.

This army would likely get crushed by anything really hard such as big Terminator units or Land Raiders, and that sucks. However, it seems like that's the fate of just about every Tyranid army, so I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I mean, at least you'd have the chance to rend before getting mowed down by tough assault units. The "new" (to me, anyway) HtH rules will make life seriously difficult even if you manage to crush something in combat. Getting shot at after killing something off just sucks, and I don't see much way around it. Boo.

So any ideas? Is this on par with what you guys were envisioning?

MilkmanAI; Yeah the Army list forum would be the best place to post this list as thats where you'll get the most help - this thread hopefully is trying to work out if FT's are effective & if so, whats the best way to implement them.

As for the list - the broodlord cant take fleshhooks & feeder tendrils both. You dont really need WoN guants, with that many troop choices, perhaps one selection.

Razerous wrote:
As for the list - the broodlord cant take fleshhooks & feeder tendrils both. You dont really need WoN guants, with that many troop choices, perhaps one selection.

Err, incorrect, the Broodlord can, Genestealer broods cannot.

Demogerg wrote:

Razerous wrote:
As for the list - the broodlord cant take fleshhooks & feeder tendrils both. You dont really need WoN guants, with that many troop choices, perhaps one selection.

Err, incorrect, the Broodlord can, Genestealer broods cannot.

Another good reason that list should be in the right forum - you can get the proper help it needs. As for the broodlord, I havent got the codex to hand at the moment but I thought it had an asterix by the two upgrades mentioning only one upgrade was allowed.. but I can also see that may have been for the genestealers only.

Warriors; what would be the best upgrades for them? Its roughly 175pts for a 5-strong squad with wound allocation in mind, but thats with +1str, +1sv & the primary weapon being the deathspitter. For wound allocation purposes (so entirely worthwhile) what would be the best primary upgrade.. sything talons, rending claws (so they never shoot, only run then assault) or deathspitters.

As these guys (warriors) will be acting as a cover-screen & meat shield.. the lack of running will cause the problem with the units behind them being covered in a position to over-take the warriors.

I guess it wasn't clear that I'm not actually trying to build that army at the moment. It was supposed to be food for thought given the topic of maximizing/exploiting feeder tendrils. Oh well.

Broodlords can, in fact, have both flesh hooks and feeder tendrils.

I was speaking with a friend about this subject last night, and he said he's had decent success pairing flesh hooked Genestealers with a Lictor charge to give them all tendrils. That sounds like a nifty way to save points to me. He said that people tend to avoid cover when they know a few Lictors are going to show up, too. That could be nice for forcing things into the open and getting units into a clump in the middle if you're outflanking.

In that warrior unit, you might want to sprinkle in a lash whip or two for some extra survivability if they happen to make it into close combat. I haven't been terribly impressed with their combat abilities so far.

edit: By the way, it's MilkmanAL, like my name.

My bad about the name. Fair doos about the broodlord, makes his retinue extremely dangerous.

Hmm.. so how about broodlord + retinue leading the assault via infiltration with a backup tandem of warrior screen with a hormagaunt brood..

With a second tag-team of deep-striking lictors helping to bring in smallish squads of outflanking genestealers! 2 Lictors to three genestealer squads, roughly 6-9 model squads?

My friend just called me for a game. I'll try it and let you guys know how it goes. I'm not exactly a seasoned vet, but some experience is better than none!

I think I'll run something similar to the above but with slightly beefier Carnifexes and a couple more Stealers in place of the Raveners. I just can't force myself to love Raveners, no matter how hard I try. I'll also swap out the gaunts and Zoanthropes for some basic Hormagaunts and Warriors, if points allow. Otherwise, I'll just drop the gaunts for more Stealers and see what happens.

Good luck with your game, but I'd still suggest keeping 1 WoN SG brood.

Ive posted up a list with somthing aiming towards trying to best use FT's..

Well, things worked out sort of strangely. My friend decided to play Orks, so I chose not to outflank (which sort of hampers the Lictor/Genestealer thing). He also had just painted a bunch of his models this morning and only brought enough stuff for a 1000 point game since the rest were drying. I ran a Tyrant with 2 guard, 2 Carnifexes with barbed stranglers, a Lictor, and 2 units of 10 Stealers, one with flesh hooks (supposed to hook up with the Lictor) and one with feeder tendrils. Both Stealer units were scuttlers.

I guess it's a pretty inconclusive game, but I did take away a few little things.

First, Genestealers aren't so good for holding home objectives. I sort of farted into a win by leading a Stealer unit all over the table and eventually into my friend's objective. If they're gonna take an objective, it's not going to be one that you set up conveniently for yourself. That much is probably obvious to you guys, but it was news to me. I think at least 1 squad of WoN gaunts is will be essential if you're going to abuse tendrils. Something has to sit around and squat on those objectives, right?

Second, Lictors make Carnifexes killing machines. Yeah, I didn't get to take advantage of them as I'd planned thanks to Orks being super fast and me rolling poorly (didn't get him til turn 4), but the one I took was still interesting. Rerolling those S9 hits is awesome, especially for me and my colossally terrible luck with Carnifex HtH attacks.

Possibly the best thing I learned out of the whole game was a fun use for Lictors: sniping big close combats with Hit and Run. I was worried that they'd basically be a fragile vehicle for cheap feeder tendrils, but they're really not that bad. I got to charge him at the giant horde that unloaded on my Tyrant, add a wound or two to my side of the combat, and promptly run away back into the cover that was nearby. I still worry about their durability, but I'm reasonably cool with 3-4 models directing their attacks at my Lictors.

Last but not least, impassable terrain=difficult with flesh hooks can be seriously excellent. They let me climb up a building with my scout move, run across it, and jump down in the next turn to assault an incoming bike unit. They were normal bikers, mind you, but stopping that flank move in its tracks was pretty satisfying, as unique as that event probably was.

Oh well, it was fun even though I didn't exactly test out what I wanted to. Useful info is useful info, I suppose.

When placing objectives.. Ive always found it more interesting to clump them together on the opposing board egde near your opponents objectives, this basically allows you to abadon your own egde and hem the other guy in!

Ballsy, but probably a good plan if your whole army is charging forward and/or outflanking. I guess at the very least, you could drop a Lictor on top of an objective to contest it, assuming it's in cover.

Feeder Tendrils, to me, are probably one of the BEST Biomorphs you can have.

Me, I run FT on ALL my genestealers, giving my BL Acid Maw. I'd do it vice versa, but the point cost is rediculous and the number of times a GS brood sweeps an enemy in CC then gets shot up is... well, pretty dang often. Its so hard NOT to kill things with your GS lol. And give you BL hooks just so he always gets to attack first!

But yeah, as one of the other posters said (cannot seem to find his post) Lictors are awesome with GS broods. Deep strike them where they can get into CC on that turn, then sneak in your BS broods behind. Also, lictors are great rhino and predator killers (10 BA ftw!). Anything that can get feeders should honestly get feeders unless you cannot justify it. But seeing as its only 1 pt per model... its pretty much amazing

There are only 2 Reasons not to take feeder Tendrils:
1) Running Classic Genestealers (Who do not have feeders)
2) Running stealers with flesh hooks.