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As I'm sure many of the people here on Dakka know, I like Tau like fat kids like candy...(Waiting for the Stargate Reference), and fat kids; they like candy. Anyway, I was curious to know how big the Tau Empire really is? I mean is there any solid proof of how big they are?

I bring this up because The Club and I want to start a Realistic campaign where the Tau Empire will be fighting a small small small portion of the Imperium, mainly the Krieg forgeworld, and the Dark Angels (Vraks redone anyone?). So How would that turn out? Would the ENTIRE Tau Empire be able to face a single forgeworld and the Dark angels? And if so? How Easily? Would it take just a sept? Or a Coalition to do so? And if anyone has some websites or scanned information, I would MUCH appreciate that.

Mr Hat n' Clogs

I think it really depends on the scale you want to run it at, I think if the Dark Angel chapter levered their entire weight into it, they'd have a good chance at wiping them out [the tau] especially backed by Kreig's assembly lines; that's just an unlikely scenario though, since mobilizing that level of imperial might could prove difficult.

I think it would make an excellent escalation campaign though, culminating in a huge apocalypse-style battle.

The first few fights could be Tau scouts and landers probing into Kreig territory and taking over small outposts, threatening controlled areas, etc. and as the tensions mount, the Dark Angels and more and more of the Death Korp could be called up to fight off these invaders.

I don't think one Space Marine chapter could destroy one entire race o.O I mean, that's only 2000 guys, against billions ^^.

Anyway, I suppose I just want an estimation of how many Firewarriors and what not there are, compared to the Krieg home-world. I mean the the majority of the Krieg army is fighting on Vraks with the Dark Angels, and the complete total population of the planet is only 8 million.

The Krieg Force attacking Vraks was an estimated 9 million, (That is 200,000 men in every Regiment). 9 Million is a large amount of men for one battle that has not been dealt with yet.

I don't think the Dark Angels could do it on their own, no. But think of all the successor chapters they've spawned; they are the oldest space marine chapter. And unlike at lot of the other chapters, they maintain pretty close ties to one another. Most of these guys are still hunting the fallen together, hell, they have entire successor chapters devoted to it.

Imagine the conference call:
Azrael: "My homies, it is time."
Angels of Absolution Chapter Master: "Time to bust a rhyme?"
Azrael: "No."
Guardians of the Covenant Chapter Master: "Is it time to suck a lime?"
Azrael: "No."
Diciples of Caliban Chapter Master: "It's time for the 'yo mother's so stupid joke of the week?:
Azrael: "No, but she is so stupid she tripped over a cordless phone."
GotC CM: "Oooooh no you didn't!"
AoA CM: "Oh yes he did!"
Azrael: "Seriously guys, shut up. Call yo' boys up, it's time to burn out those blue skinned commie Tau once and for all. Oh, and we're gonna have Kreig nuke the livin' crap out of them first. Word is bond."
AoA CM: "Word."
DoC CM: "Word."
GotC CM: "Word."
Azrael: "Call the blood angels too, we shared a codex in 2nd edition, most people still don't know the difference."

RxGhost wrote:Imagine the conference call:
Azrael: "My homies, it is time."
Angels of Absolution Chapter Master: "Time to bust a rhyme?"
Azrael: "No."
Guardians of the Covenant Chapter Master: "Is it time to suck a lime?"
Azrael: "No."
Diciples of Caliban Chapter Master: "It's time for the 'yo mother's so stupid joke of the week?:
Azrael: "No, but she is so stupid she tripped over a cordless phone."
GotC CM: "Oooooh no you didn't!"
AoA CM: "Oh yes he did!"
Azrael: "Seriously guys, shut up. Call yo' boys up, it's time to burn out those blue skinned commie Tau once and for all. Oh, and we're gonna have Kreig nuke the livin' crap out of them first. Word is bond."
AoA CM: "Word."
DoC CM: "Word."
GotC CM: "Word."
Azrael: "Call the blood angels too, we shared a codex in 2nd edition, most people still don't know the difference."

*sneezes milk out of his nose*

And this isn't written somewhere in the fluff, WHY?! Oh yeah, cause the commie Tau have yet to be killed off... YET!

Haha lol, funny it would be.


I mean, I've got the numbers right here from the Siege of VRaks book, and it says that the Krieg produces a good ten regiments every year, that's about two million men a year, or 20 million within 10 years.

What is the production of Firewarriors in the TAu Empire? How many of them exist to this date? FRom my understanding Tau are separated into castes by their body structure and abilities ((Which is why all Tau look a bit different)). This means that anyone who looks like a Fire caste member at birth...well, is going to be a firewarrior, and any Tau at birth looking like an Air Caste at birth would indeed go into the Tau fleet.

Anyone know the numbers for the Tau?

And let us not forget about the Kroot, Vespids, Tallarans (Dog Soiders), and the countless millions of Gue'vesa.

I think the current reasoning is that it wouldn't be that hard for the imperium to roll over the tau, speaking strictly in military terms.

But isn't the Tau-controlled area like, really hard to get to, all those warp storms and stuff? Also, the imperium is beset on all sides by foes more dangerous than the Tau, and they're just too busy fighting everyone else...it's just a matter of time until the Tau get too ambitious and are noticed by a much larger fish than themselves.

Avirk, don't forget that Kreig has that wicked cloning tech they use to churn out extra soldiers for the imperium...winning a war of attrition against a foe that will not even back down using an army that does not like to spend its troops lives will be difficult.

Also, according to fluff, a single Deathwing squad can destroy a planet of genestealers with little less than their armor, some face paint, and their genitals.

I've been trying to get some numbers on the Tau for you, but there's really not a lot out there. Even the Fire Warrior book didn't have a lot of information regarding them stuffs. I'll see if I can't get some more info.

Thank you, I'm really trying to do this by the numbers.

Speaking of the Krieg cloning technology, It says in the Vraks book that they are constantly at their max capacity (2 million a year being their max). Indeed the entire Imperium of man would just...run the Tau over without breaking a swet, but this is a battle between the Tau Empire and the forge world of Krieg.

Go to a beach. Look at the sand.

Scoop up some sand into one hand so that none of it can fall out.

That is the Tau Empire.

The beach is the Imperium.

RxGhost wrote:
Avirk, don't forget that Kreig has that wicked cloning tech they use to churn out extra soldiers for the imperium...winning a war of attrition against a foe that will not even back down using an army that does not like to spend its troops lives will be difficult.

Well, if it comes to that, Tau can just churn out Gun Drones...

Tau Empire is supposed to have something like 100+ worlds, of which around twenty are Sept worlds. I didn't manage to find any population numbers, but I don't think Septs have population comparable to Imperium's Hive worlds. If we assume that Septs have population averaging, say, 4 billion, that would make 80 billion Tau total. I think rest of the colonies are unlikely to be more than 2-3 billion combined, many of them are only recently estabilished. Some of those would be allied races of course - humans, Kroot, Vespid etc.

Like RxGhost said, the Imperium is playing on a totally different scale than the puny Tau Empire but it all comes to a question about priorities. Check the fluff on the Tau and Marine books, they both make it clear that the Imperium was ready to continue pushing into Tau Empire proper despite the casualties ( The Imperium can afford them ultimately ) but then assets were redistributed when a new Hive Fleet invasion was confirmed.

The 13th Black Crusade, Hive Fleet invasion and Ork Waaaghs! affecting whole Segmentums are infinitely more dangerous to the Imperium than some small Xenos state on the Eastern Fringe.

i'm pretty sure they have more like 30 or 40 worlds. the Tau empire is TINY compared to everything else. they have 16 sept worlds iirc. I also don't think a single space marine chapter, or even a few would have a prayer at defeating the entire tau empire. neither would a single forge world. the Tau themselves aren't very hardy, but their technology MORE than makes up for it. There is a corollary to that; Their fast advancement suggests they are extremely adaptable. The Imperium in VERY set in it's ways and isn't very creative. It would only be a matter of time that the Tau develop techniques and technology to make them almost unbeatable to the imperium. As it is their battlesuits are on the cusp of being superior to terminator armour in every way. Their only disadvantages I can think of is their smaller numbers and lack of psychic power; the latter may very well turn into a major advantage once they figure out how to do FTL travel without entering the warp (It's possible, the Necrons can do it). If they're smart about it and work very slowly and stealthily, I rreally think than over the 42nd and 43rd milennia the Tau could very well become a very prominent, if not the dominant race in the galaxy. Too bad the Ethereals are too zealous in their application of the Greater Good. I say let Farsight take over :-P

Its obviously not big enough since they gotta expand so much...

The Tau already have FTL travel, mind... thats not using the warp is it?

Aaaanywho, marines might be awesome, but read the IA book on tau vs imperium.

The imperium might win, but they'd lose SO MANY guardsmen, and their supply lines are stupidly easy to cut as it is, let alone if they pushed a salient out through Tau territory.

They do have FTL, but it's nowhere NEAR as fast as Imperial Warp drive. The necron warp drive (or jump drive or whatever it's called) on the oither hand, is faster than Imperial Warp, doesnt go into the Warp, and iirc is nigh impossible to detect.

The Tau slow-drive is the reason their empire is so small and condensed. They just can't move stuff around fast enough to expand faster than they are.

RxGhost wrote:

Imagine the conference call:
Azrael: "My homies, it is time."
Angels of Absolution Chapter Master: "Time to bust a rhyme?"
Azrael: "No."
Guardians of the Covenant Chapter Master: "Is it time to suck a lime?"
Azrael: "No."
Diciples of Caliban Chapter Master: "It's time for the 'yo mother's so stupid joke of the week?:
Azrael: "No, but she is so stupid she tripped over a cordless phone."
GotC CM: "Oooooh no you didn't!"
AoA CM: "Oh yes he did!"
Azrael: "Seriously guys, shut up. Call yo' boys up, it's time to burn out those blue skinned commie Tau once and for all. Oh, and we're gonna have Kreig nuke the livin' crap out of them first. Word is bond."
AoA CM: "Word."
DoC CM: "Word."
GotC CM: "Word."
Azrael: "Call the blood angels too, we shared a codex in 2nd edition, most people still don't know the difference."

If Dark Angels were like that I would turn to chaos too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

spartanghost wrote:They do have FTL, but it's nowhere NEAR as fast as Imperial Warp drive. The necron warp drive (or jump drive or whatever it's called) on the oither hand, is faster than Imperial Warp, doesnt go into the Warp, and iirc is nigh impossible to detect.

The Tau slow-drive is the reason their empire is so small and condensed. They just can't move stuff around fast enough to expand faster than they are.

Essentially correct, but Imperiam and Tau warp tech is similar, however there are two methods of utilisting warp space calculated warp dives and navigated warp dives. To travel with any measure of safety and security blind you can aonly travel at low speeds and short distances. Imperial navigators see in the warp and thus can direct their ships in ways that Tau wont dare.

A good analogy is what happens if you take one car and two drivers, one can drive normally, the other is a blindfolded man who is told he must always wear the blindfold while th engine is running. Both can drive a race traxck in the same car wit the same engines.

Tau are very interested in captured navigators.

Aaah I see. I always thought they developed Warp Drive similar to Star Trek or something. Either way, I still think that the Tau would surpass the Imperium in warp technology in a few short centuries, possibly even decades if they're lucky.

For realism's sake wouldn't the SM chapter they'd be fighting be Ultra Marines? The Tau Empire borders their territory to the north and east. I guess if you look at the galaxy map in the SM section of the big rulebook you could also have Black Templars as they have a crusade that seems to be bisecting Tau space along with the Omega Marines (Ultra Marine sucessor chapter?) and the Sable Swords chapter (?) border tau space to the west. The Dark Angels, while having a galaxy wide presence with thier whole hunt for the fallen and all, wouldn't be able to throw big numbers at the Tau. The map in the SM portion of the big rulebook shows the rock all the way on the other side of the galaxy near Cypra Mundi.

I recall in the Last Chancers second novel, Kage is talking to a tau fire warrior commander, and kage says something along the lines of, 'I come from a hive city, which has about a billion people in, and there's thirteen other cities like that just on my world. Oh, and there's thousands of worlds like that in the Imperium.' And the Tau just kind of gapes and says, 'There are that many humans on one world!?! That's how many tau there are in my entire sept!'.

Hope that helps

Ughhhh *sighs from reading the above posts* I don't think anyone here actually read them. This is a hypothetical conflict between the Tau and just Kreig alone, not the entire Imperium of man.

Jeezus, then delete the topic. I thought we had some good ideas brewing here.

Look, there aren't any real numbers out there on the tau, all we have is anecdotal references from a handful of sources; the fluff isn't big on detailed demographics. Are you planning on fielding the entire tau fire caste, because I don't think 3000pts is gonna' cover it.

There are 13-16 major Tau worlds, Although there aren't any hard numbers for it, they seem to be around 4-10 billion Tau each. There are also 20 Alien Homeworlds, including Perch and Vespid. Although these might vary wildly, it's not unreasonable to beleave that with access to Tau technology, their populations could be with the billions. In addition, there are many small colonies, of which we have no numbers for.

Could the Tau empire face Kreig and the Dark Angels? Yes. It's an unlikely match up, and will depend greatly on who's invading who, or if they are meeting on a neutral location. I can't really help you with more byond that without knowing more about the surroundings of the campain your planning.

As for their Warp Drive, the Tau don't actualy enter the Warp for FTL, they skim the edge of the warp, using Gravic Sails to move along currents within it. This means they are not exposed to the warp when traveling and do not require a Geller field. They also cannot be detected by Astropaths until they slow down under FTL, as the Imperium relys on seeing the ship in the warp to detect it's approch.

Indeed it's very small. The entire Tau Empire could fit multiple times within the maximum boundaries of the Macharian Crusade. Most maps of the Imperium, including those drawn from a neutral standpoint, don't even show the Tau Empire. Those that do include it tend to make it a case of "Where's Waldo?"

But given the fact that it's been revealed that the Golden Throne is slowly starting to fail and shut down, the Tau Empire will likely have grown in large increments by the time 6th Ed rolls around.

But for the time being, I think Kreig would give them a run for their money, even win, given the fact that the Tau are more likely to pull back and forfeit the war if they start getting bogged down in pointless Meatgrinders and Trench Warfare, which tend to be Kreig's choice strategies. The Tau could try and flank the overall campaign frontline, but would then likely draw the attention of further Imperial forces. It would be impossible for them to invade the Imperium without taking at least a severe and immense beating. They might fare better against an Imperial invasion on the Tau Empire, given that their orbital defenses alone likely make the Orbital Defenses of the Imperium look like a child's toys. Never mind what they might have in terms of ground and AA defenses.

Oh, it's also worth noting for your campain, the Demacus crusade had a full provitional chapter of Space Marines, and didn't make it past the first major city of the first Major world.

There is actually a picture of it in the Ork codex if I remember right. Yeah it's there. It's literally a tiny dot.

I always thought the tau Empire was HUGE. But maybe i was wrong... oh well.

Thanks for the good numbers and words, I appreciate the advice. I'm still a youngling to much of the 40k Universe, where I know your Dakkietes here know so much more than I do. Once again thank you everyone ^^

Keep thinking of new things;

It's also worth noting that the Tau do have some Imperial Starships. Mostly ones that have turned traitor, some that have been captured. So while they're by no means common, they do have some faster fully Warp Capable ships.

Surely you can capture all the starships you like, as long as you're lacking a navigator, you shouldn't be capable of traversing warp currents, correct?

Hence the mention of traitors. Which has included navigators.