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ALL vehicle mounted ork weapons (except frag kannon) are str 5 and up, witch means if I have 4 big shootas, I can only shoot one if I move. I usually use a Battlewagon as fire support with big shootas and killikannon and stuff, but I can't move and fire more than one.

Plus the killikannon is ordinance so I cannot fire it and ANY other weapons.

So my question is, WTF do you arm an offensive Battlewagon with? lol

An offensive battlewagon is a troop delivery mechanism.

You arm it with 15 burna boyz, a nob with a powerklaw, red paint, boarding planks, grabbin' klaw, one big shoota, and stick a mek with a KFF in it.

Voila; you can annihilate pretty much any unit in 40 through either shooting or assault, immobilize and kill any vehicle, move 7-13" per turn, and take 4+ cover saves all the way up the field.

That's an offensive battlewagon. You can even switch its payload to something truly terrifying...Ghazghkull+Nobs, tankbustas, Meganobs....'Ard Boyz, you pick.


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Also, if you're trying to put points into weaponry, than take one big shoota and a kannon. You can now have one main weapon and one defensive weapon.

One reason I liked it as a 'sit back n shoot' was because what ur saying would put all the eggs in one basket. All that would be several hundred points, and could all be killed with just a few shots (aka one turn). I like to spread my army out. But maybe that's not the way to go huh? Damn... I have this huge model too lol. So I need to make battlewagons for blitzing troops, not fire support? Loota Wagons are just so easy to kill that I don't like them for fire support either (although Boomguns are so great I usually keep one anyway). And all honesty Kannons suck. I could get a str 8 shot with rockets rom ANY unit basicly so why have kannon batteries?

DashofPepper is right, the most effective battlewagons that I've seen dont come from the weaponry on the wagon, but the figures that the wagon is transporting. Thats one of the cool things about the Witch Hunters Rhinos as well... When their Rhino has a figure in it with a 4+ or worse save, it counts as open topped. When its 3+ or better, its closed. Now I just wish that I could figureout how to put a priest with a Battle Sister squad and use it to open fire on things from inside the Rhino... I know a cheap way to do it, but its rather cheesetastic... lol

There is a reason why people do the BurnaBoyz thing, it's because it's actually rather good, while "sit back and shoot" battlewagons are a waste of points.

Also this isn't a rules question, it should be in the tactics forum.

It's funny, I posted this thread over a month ago and I laugh at my previous self. I have been using the Battlewagon as you've suggested since, and it's been doing great. Thanks guys

im a fan of a killkannon on my big meks burna wagon, it can keep up with fast vehicles until theyre ina sssault range while still hammering off shots, mabye its just me but the killkannon performs amazingly every game i take it, must be something karmic about throwing those damn pie plates back in their face

kill dem stunties wrote:im a fan of a killkannon on my big meks burna wagon, it can keep up with fast vehicles until theyre ina sssault range while still hammering off shots, mabye its just me but the killkannon performs amazingly every game i take it, must be something karmic about throwing those damn pie plates back in their face

How do you figure? If you move 6" so you can fire, that's a hell of a lot less than the 24" you could go with your trucks? Not really "keeping up with fast vehicles".

Mikhaila is right. My problem with the kilikannon is it's 1 str less than the Boom Gun and it is only 10 pts less. the only advantage is that it is in a heavier vehicle, but it can only move 6 and shoot, or 12 and not at all. Not ideal for a transport.

There is only one instance I've thought of a kilikannon being useful and that is you can take Battlewagons as dedicated transports sometimes, and then just use them back with the boom guns like a free heavy support slot. A battlewagon is Armor 14 12 10, Str 7 kilikannon, and 160 pts. A looted wagon is Armor 11 11 10, str 8 Boomgun, and 105 pts (but a heavy support choice). Otherwise it's a waist of points IMO.

mikhaila wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:im a fan of a killkannon on my big meks burna wagon, it can keep up with fast vehicles until theyre ina sssault range while still hammering off shots, mabye its just me but the killkannon performs amazingly every game i take it, must be something karmic about throwing those damn pie plates back in their face

How do you figure? If you move 6" so you can fire, that's a hell of a lot less than the 24" you could go with your trucks? Not really "keeping up with fast vehicles".

Fast vehicles can only move 18". Fast Skimmers can move 24". You're point still stands


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kaun666 wrote:Mikhaila is right. My problem with the kilikannon is it's 1 str less than the Boom Gun and it is only 10 pts less. the only advantage is that it is in a heavier vehicle, but it can only move 6 and shoot, or 12 and not at all. Not ideal for a transport.

There is only one instance I've thought of a kilikannon being useful and that is you can take Battlewagons as dedicated transports sometimes, and then just use them back with the boom guns like a free heavy support slot. A battlewagon is Armor 14 12 10, Str 7 kilikannon, and 160 pts. A looted wagon is Armor 11 11 10, str 8 Boomgun, and 105 pts (but a heavy support choice). Otherwise it's a waist of points IMO.

you can't take the killkannon on dedicated Battlewagons.

Dashofpepper wrote:An offensive battlewagon is a troop delivery mechanism.

You arm it with 15 burna boyz, a nob with a powerklaw, red paint, boarding planks, grabbin' klaw, one big shoota, and stick a mek with a KFF in it.

Only burnas don't get nobs, dropping a klaw and bosspole on the mek however is doable.
edited due to posting way too late.

Should this post be in the tactics section?

To answer you question, a kannon has a STR 4 when firing a template (frag blast). You can use that and a big shoota when moving your wagon forward to deliver the 15 flamer templates of death -- the real power behind the Battlewagon.
Assuming you can hit 5 models with a flamer template, the 15 flamer template battlewagon will score 75 STR 4 no-cover hits on the opposing squad.

On average...
That will kill a 50 model IG blob squad.
That will kill a 30 ork squad.
That will kill a 10 man marine squad.
That will kill 7 terminators.

exactly. the real power is what is inside it.

I run 2 squads of 20 shoota boys with 2 big shootas. move 7" fire the kannon on the battle wagon then add another 40 dice of shootas

then right between them is a battlewagon filled with ghaz and 6 MANZ. yeah they just carve stuff up. and the best part is its all a huge ball of obj holding troops goodness

of course right behind them is a big mek hanging out with some shoota boyz in a trukk, nicely hidden from incoming fire.. gotta love measuring the forcefield from the edge of the vehicle he's in

well, the killkannons range is only 24" so unless im playing spearhead it wont be firing on the first turn and itll eb advancing 12 with the trukks going 18, last time i checked thats 6" next to the kff ... >.>

But yea, i run a bigmek /w kff and burna with 11 burnaboyz in a killkannon wagon, the killkannon rarely fails to make near 2x its 70 points back. Especially if im playing a assaulty meq army i wanna drop ap3 pieplates >.> then it really makes its points back.

I found a use for my closed top battlewagon the other day, it was a fire fortress in 4th ed but lost its glamour in this edition. After a litle rearming and some brainstorming I found a unit that coupled with a fortress wagon became a deadly combo.

I call it, The orkswarm wagon.
Heres the wagon:
Kannon, 4 Rokkit launchas, ard case. (for killin dem udder wagons n' humy speesh marines )
And heres the squad:
20 Stormboyz and nob with claw. (for killin oll dem udder fings )

This whole thing is just short of 500 points but its a worthy cost for a squad that can assult from total protection up to a massive 21-26 inches without the tank having to sacrifice its shooting.
Mathhammer : 2 inch disembark+12 inch move+1-6 inch rokkit special+6 inch charge=21-26

In a game this is my tactic:
Start off with the wagon as far up the field as i can get it, its usually got some dreds/trukks/other wagons/huge ork mobs surrounding it and a mek closeby. The horde/trukks/dreds run beside it up the field, giving the enemy a hard time to flank it effectively.
If the deployment is a a pitched battle it usually takes but one round of moving 12" for the wagon to cut loose, the wagon will be roughly 23-24" up the field in the very first round, although moving so fast will deprive it of its shooting, idd rather have five rokkit equivalent shots in one round than one rokkit equivalent shot + a minor blast in two rounds. In round two of the battle ALL enemy units that started moderately close to the edge of the enemy deployment zone accross from your wagon will be within charge range for your stormboyz.
In a spearhead deployment the wagons tactics dont change much, but you gotta be more carefull about being flanked.
In a dawn of war battle the going gets tough for this setup as much as for any other ork army, the wagon will require at leas two or even three rounds of moving before he can hunker down, unlash his swarm, and blast away. Oh and if picked as the centrepiece for a horde/dred army it will have to slow down considerably in order to prevent it from being isolated and flanked

Thus the specific benefits of the tactic:
The stormboyz are safe from being at the centre of the opponents firestorm.
The wagon does not have to sacrifice as many turns of opening fire with its entire arsenal as it would have if it carried a slower squad.
The stormboys dont have to worry too much over the tanks destruction, they are jump infantry and wouldnt be slowed down at all anyways.
The two units do not have to rely on each other for every battle, and can provide usefull support almost anywhere on the field if needed.

Oh and heres a funny fact, in a wagon bash army, this one is the cheaper than my assult wagons

Your entire plan is illegal.

You may only transport "infantry" in vehicles.

Storm boys are "jump infantry", and therefore cannot even be embarked in a transport.


Sorry to burst your bubble.

Can jump pack equipped models enter transports? I'm currently at the office so I don't have a book to look up in, but I seem to remember there being a restriction on that...

Edit: Beaten to the punch. +1 Alerian.

Tsurugi wrote:20 Stormboyz and nob with claw. (for killin oll dem udder fings )

I gotta give you 10 out of 10 points for being clever with this tactic. That's something noone would really expect to come piling out of a BW.

I hate the be the one to tell you this though -- you can't pack storm boys in the BW.
"Only infantry models may embark in transports (it is worth specifying that this does not include jump infantry), unless a Codex book states otherwise." p66 of the Base Rulebook.

It's better to learn now than at a tournament.

After further consideration... *starts mentally scavenging for parts to build an Waaghkraft Karriah for apoc* Stormboyz, Deff Koptas, Grot Bomz, Fighta-Bommaz... Obligatory krew of Big Mekz! DEAD KILLY!!!

My first BWs were all custom with 3 Skorchas or the Auto-hit Zzap gun with 2 twin-linked Big-shoota. Everything could fire back in the day.

I really think the Orks got hosed the most with 5 ed shooting rules on vehicles. There should be a rule with orks that any assault weapon, BS, Skorcha, Rokkit, is considered a Defensive weapon for vehicles. Also we lost our vehicle mounted force field from Armageddon, that was awesome!!!! Don't get me started about losing Spike's n Blades

Anywho time to stop living in the past!

The setup I use in most games 1850+ is 3 KillKannon, DeffRolla, RPJ, Armor Plates, grot rtiggers battlewagons HS choices. 10 Burnas, 1 BS Mek, and 1 Big Mek with KFF in the Middle one with 2 squads of 12 Slugga Choppa, PK Bosspole Nob in both flanking wagon. I use the Leman Russ model for the wagon. I also put a reg Kannon on each for Weapon Destroyed results. I run all 3 shoulder-to-shoulder up the middle. It is a huge fire magnet. Some games the Burnas never fire a shot but attract so much attention my 12 bikers with Bikerboss run around unmolested. The 2 boyz squads mostly just take objectives.

Also with the 3 BWs forming a wall my old-style trukks hide behind them completely. One could even give the 12-ork boyz squads a trukk, deploy on foot the first turn, let some burnas or Tankbustas (who also got robbed not being tank hunters) take the trukk. The boys then jump in the Wagons. I posted a proposed rule earlier about how it should be possible for a mob of boys to go from one open-topped vehicle to another open-topped in one turn.

Alerian wrote:Your entire plan is illegal.

Nuff said..

GG

Damn it converting a Battlewagon with launch ramps for stormboyz would have looked awesome

Doesn't a wagon with a killkannon lose its ability to transport entirely?

iamthecougar wrote:Doesn't a wagon with a killkannon lose its ability to transport entirely?

No. Codex is your friend!

iamthecougar wrote:Doesn't a wagon with a killkannon lose its ability to transport entirely?

It's reduced to 12, iirc. And you can't take a killkannon on a dedicated transport. And really, you shouldn't take a killkannon anyway. Battlewagons are for getting squishy boyz into melee, not for shooting!

Gwar! wrote:

iamthecougar wrote:Doesn't a wagon with a killkannon lose its ability to transport entirely?

No. Codex is your friend!

but it can't be a dedicated transport

Tri, you might want to read what Gwar! wrote there in your quote from him, because Nobz and MANZ can take them as dedicated.

airmang wrote:Tri, you might want to read what Gwar! wrote there in your quote from him, because Nobz and MANZ can take them as dedicated.

Actually, Dedicated Transport Battlewaggons cannot take Killkannons (page 98 Ork Codex). Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said they could be dedicated, all I said was that they didn't lose their transport capacity.

Gwar! wrote:

airmang wrote:Tri, you might want to read what Gwar! wrote there in your quote from him, because Nobz and MANZ can take them as dedicated.

Actually, Dedicated Transport Battlewaggons cannot take Killkannons (page 98 Ork Codex). Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said they could be dedicated, all I said was that they didn't lose their transport capacity.

thanks Gwar ...

airmang my point was simple. I have known some one to have taken 2 units of nobs as troop and taken dedicated Battlewaggons with KillKannons. In the games it didn't matter since he hadn't taken any Heavy support, so we just suffle them into there.