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***List has been edited to take into account feedback so far! This is the most current list (also posted farther down)***

Commander Shas'el- 198
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, 2 Shield Drones
1 Bodyguard
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array
Commander Shas'el- 198
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, 2 Shield Drones
1 Bodyguard
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array

3 Deathrains, with flamers- 176
2 Shield drones
3 Deathrains, with flamers- 176
2 Shield drones
6 Stealthsuits- 300
12 Gun Drones

6 Fire Warriors- 165
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
6 Fire Warriors- 165
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
6 Fire Warriors- 165
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
6 Fire Warriors- 165
(Ride in Pathfinders' Devilfish)
18 Kroot- 126
18 Kroot- 126

8 Pathfinders- 201
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
3 Piranhas- 225
Fusion Blasters, Disruption Pods, Targeting Arrays

Hammerhead- 165
Railgun, Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
3 Broadsides- 275
Advanced Stabilisation Systems, 2 Shield Drones
3 Broadsides- 275
Advanced Stabilisation Systems, 2 Shield Drones

Total- 2996

Here's 2 pics of part of the force! They were painted by tabletopgames43 for a very reasonable price




Here's a link to his painting thread, too:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/242471.page

Thanks for looking!!

I saw "fireknife" and stopped reading on the grounds that the list has already failed.

Seriously. Fireknife is the worst configuration you could possibly put on a suit.

I do wonder when people will realize that a firestorm MathHammers better...

3k points and your not even full on Railguns. Not enough marker lights and to many FW's. Also bad Suits.

Hi,

Wow, I'm suprised about the comments on the suits (at least the fireknives). Do you prefer deathrains?

For anyone who doesn't play Tau or know the fan names for suits:
Fireknives = Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod
Deathrains = Twin-linked Missile Pods

At least I'm not getting the comments "Add Devilfish" and "Drop the Ethereal" since I took the advice and did it for this list

Seriously though, what would you change? I'm using all 3 heavy support, I know I could add a broadside to the squad that only has one, but still! Suggestions?

Also, I'm not familiar with firestorm?

Thanks

Oh no, double post

Hi guys, I'd love an explanation of your comments (or comments from others, if possible!) Thanks

Especially, how would you arm the bodyguards? I've been disappointed by this unit's perfomance, so I'm OK with cutting them up and putting on different weapons.

I could go with:
Commander CIB, Missile Pod
Bodyguards Fusion Blaster, Missile Pod

And the second Commander with AFP, and something else?

Tell me how to configure them, and I'll try to make the changes Thanks! I'd like to put in the fusion blasters, since I keep getting Carnifexes running right up my gullet, and I've got nothing nasty to torch them with once they get close right now.

In answer to your question about suits, I'm going to copy/paste something I wrote yesterday for someone else....read the part about crisis suits. They exist to fill a hole between your broadsides and fire warriors. Plasma/missile pod does NOT fill that hole.

Tau have just gotten a MASSIVE boost. 5th edition has shifted the meta-game into much more mechanization, and Tau are hands down the best tank killing army in existence. The second thing that Tau have at their disposal is the unique ability to influence a battle in interesting ways. You have LOTS of pinning weapons, the ability to pretty much force-pin units, wound allocation goodness to increase suit survivability, and the best troop weapon (the pulse rifle) in 40k.

How you use it all determines how you do. Personally, I find kroot distasteful. If I want a close combat element in my army, I play a 2v2 and have my wife join me with her orks. Tau are meant to shoot, shoot more, and lay down such a withering fusillade of firepower that enemy armies simply evaporate under your firepower. You'll see some interesting ideas for tau army lists floating around, and some incredibly dumb ideas too. I've been incredibly successful with a pure Tau gunline (using some tactical deployment to avoid being flanked and annihilated). Here's my advice:

1. Tau firewarriors: Take groups of 12 of them, with a shas'ui who has a handheld markerlight (10 points). Give the squad 2 gundrones, or 2 marker drones if you can afford it pointwise. I deploy these guys almost 2" apart, in a line where possible, and always in cover. 4+ armor save doesn't impress anyone, but 4+ armor save in addition to 4+ cover save does wonders for keeping firewarriors alive.

2. Broadsides. In 5th edition, Broadsides rule supreme. You should have six of them. Two teams of three. If you're playing 1,000 points or less then two teams of two. Team leader with a target lock, and both teams need two shield drones each. You've got 2+ armor saves, and your drones have 2+ armor saves and 4+ invulnerable saves. These puppies ALSO need to be deployed in cover. Preferably on top of a building somewhere that counts as ruins, so that climbing is required if people are going to try outflanking and assaulting you. Putting them in cover gives you 4+ cover saves in case you run into AP2 weaponry. Those six broadsides should form the backbone, the core, the heart, and the basis of your army. The rest of your army is really just support for your broadsides, ESPECIALLY today where everyone is running such heavily mechanized lists. Depending on mood, sometimes I'll take a Railgun hammerhead as a third heavy support for its large blast template; as anti-tank its next to useless.

3. Snipers! A heavy support choice that can consist of three individual teams of snipers. Each of them STR6 AP3, and able to headshot an MEQ without a save, and each able to pin a unit. One of my favorite, FAVORITE tactics in 40k is to have a broadside team blow up a transport, have a firewarrior team drop 1-3 markerlights (2 drones + shas'ui) on the disembarked unit, or have a pathfinder unit drop 5-8 markerlights on them, then pin them using a rail rifle and markerlight modifiers. You play against Eldar often, and those pesky wave serpents turbo-boost around the board getting cover saves, right? Drop a couple of markerlights on it, reduce its cover save to nothing, and introduce it to a whole team of broadsides. 4+ rerollable to hit, depending on facing, you need 3 or less to glance, and if they're turbo-boosting, 3+ destroys it. AP1 gives +1 on the penetration table, and if a turbo-boosting vehicle is immobilized, it counts as destroyed. Hey! Free pinning test on the guys inside!

4. Speaking of rail rifles....if you have a team of pathfinders with rail rifles+target locks, and 3 sniper teams, you can cause 9 seperate pinning tests across an enemy army. If you toss a bunch of markerlights into the fray, you can go a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way towards immobilizing an entire enemy army.

5. Crisis suits: Crisis suits exist to fill holes in your army strategy; this includes your HQs. With broadsides levelling every tank on the field, sniper drones and pathfinders forcing pinning tests on anything with a leadership value, and multiple firewarrior squads laying down ridiculous numbers of STR5 shots at anything willing to step 30" into range, you've got your anti-tank answer, some anti-MEQ, and the first step towards anti-horde. The gaps in your army are reliable MEQ and terminator killers, and more anti-horde. My favorite suit combination is plasma/fusion with multi-tracker, team leader giving me two gun or shield drones (depending on points). Drop 2 markerlights on a terminator squad, and you've got BS5 needing 2+ to hit, and at the 12" mark, you've got 6 plasma shots and 3 fusion shots. Thats 6x STR6 AP2 and 3x STR8 AP1. 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound. No saves, no feel no pain. Insta-killed anything you like. In larger games, I also take a team of "deathrain" crisis suits, which is twin-linked missile pod suits in my back, working on killing light transports or geting side armor shots on anything they can. That saves the broadsides for the big guns. Give your Shas'el Iridium armor and two shield drones, and you've got three 2+ armor save models; I think the fragmentation airburst launcher (large blast, ignores cover) is pretty much mandatory, and I give him a flamer too. Perfect anti-horde! Suits range across the field dealing death to anything that isn't being pinned or destroyed by your longer range firepower.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strategy: You now have a static gunline capable of destroying ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that can be thrown against you. The weakness: You're static. You're not moving across the board to take objectives. Believe it or not...there's a simple solution for this one too. In capture and control, you have one objective, and your enemy has one objective. In Seize ground, you're going to have one, and possible two objectives to control. You don't NEED to go take the enemy objectives. All you have to do is destroy their troop choices. With the vast amount of firepower and long range dakka....its pretty easy. Don't forget all those pinning weapons either. Pinned units can't hold an objective.

You'll need to learn and understand enemy lists, and a VERY important question you need to ask EVERY game is "What are you keeping in reserve?" You need to know what's in reserve and if its outflanking or deep-striking. If your flanks are going to be threatened, then deploy in the middle so that flanking units can't get to you. You'll also learn the magic of spreading across terrain to prevent lictor entrances, and using firewarriors to wall off access to broadsides.

That's basically it. This type of list and this strategy has pretty much won me almost every Tau game I've played in the last year. I've been playing Orks heavily for the last six months because I've decided I prefer assaulting over shooting. If you go first, the game is practically over; you can level 1/3 of the enemy army in turn 1, take out most of its mobility, and probably pin a unit or two. If you go second, you'll have to be a bit more tactical about target priorities and threat analysis, but either way, between your broadsides, markerlights, and pinning weaponry, your enemy is not doing much moving the entire game.

If you could imagine what I just described in a movie or a video game, its basically a defensive fortress. Firepower would be flying across the screen so heavily that you'd feel like getting underneath your computer desk to keep your head down. And now the metagame has shifted even more in your favor; more vehicles means less troops, and Tau anti-tank is unrivaled. Don't worry about objectives; you can deny objectives to an opponent by tabling them or killing their troops easier than you can use your own troops to hold them.

Honestly, I don't think Kroot are worth using. If you wanted to play a sneaky, outflanking army you should pick something besides Tau. Dark Eldar, or Orks. Every point you waste on a kroot (who is a subpar model in every respect; its melee usefulness is solely in its ability to tie up an enemy unit for a turn before dying) is a point that you didn't put into the overwhelming firepower that will win you games.

That's my....much more than two cents.

Your First Shas'el is missing an wargear. You've only got 2 pieces of equipment. Id probably add a MP to twin link them or a TA. I'd give him the Stims too

I wouldn't put burst cannons on your guards as i believe burst cannons should be left with the stealth teams. TL your missle pods instead and give them a plasma rifle (althought this isn't a huge difference just a personaly preference).

Your second Shas'el should be shot in the head and saved the time . the CIB looks fun on paper but gets smacked down with the math hammer. Id give him Twin linked fusion blasters and a missle pod. After all if your going to make a sacrafical lam like this guy make sure he gets the job done

I'm not a big fan of the fireknives. They are nice on paper but they are only going to last one round since you have to get them in close. The Death trains have a much better survivability as your firing from 3 times the range and can pick off light transports much better. Deathtrains will get twice as many shooting round which make them much better than the math hammer shows.
Again if your going to make a sacrafical suit like the fireknives then use the twin linked fusion blasters instead (don't remember the name for them) and make sure they get the job done.

I do love the stealthsuit. They are my shooty in my shooty army.

I would remove one of your firewarriors and give your second shas'el a body guard and add more broadsides.

Not sure why you split your pirahnnas up. I woudl keep them together and add a flechette launcher on at least one of them to discurage assults. I would remove one TA as i disembark my dones anway as it give the same effect (although then you have to watch out for weapon destroyed rolls but that's a 1 in 6 chance).

Last thing is...MORE BROADSIDES. with a 3000 point army I'd fill those units out. Also the plasma rifle upgrade is not worth it. the SMS are so much better than plasma rifles and you can fire them without LOS.

In response to Dashofpepper; I think you have a lot of good things to say about building Tau lists but I think you're overdoing it a little when saying how bad fireknives are.

Perhaps they are not the best but they are by no means the worst.

Thanks for the feedback, guys! It's something to think about

I've heard, from every other source, that playing gunline Tau is the hardest way to succeed with the army. That's how I've been playing it (against a horde army- nids) and it's been difficult to contest for the win, mostly playing only for the draw. That's why I added in all the devilfish! It seems like with running in 5th edition and all the cover saves, they're getting to me faster than I can put them down :(

Well, I will think on this and make a some changes! I am committed to the elites slots fireknives, but I can change the bodyguards weaponry and that on the HQ, so let me see what I can come up with

I've also heard that kroot are a valuable addition to such a shooty army like tau... with their cover save in forests and being able to infiltrate (although I don't think that's the word for it anymore?) it seems like they would be very useful- and they're cheap, too!

Good point about the pirahnas, just one question- in 5th edition, if I've got a squadron of these guys and one is stunned, can I not move any of them?? That's part of the reason why I split them, but if that's not the case, I could just put them together (although that seems like a lot of fusion blaster shots for one target...)

squadron rules, count stunned as shaken and immobilised as wrecked.

Ah, thanks... I'm still pretty new to 5th (or maybe that was a rule in 4th! I haven't played since 3rd edition till I got this army).

In that case I'll squadron them together

A few quick things, 1: Dashofpepper seems to play more mathhammer and less warhammer40k. 2: the reason people hate the "fire knife" (asside from its pointless stupid name) is that its BS is 3 with no TL weapons and is almost the most expensive suit you could build. Essentially it is choosing potential over reliability. 3: at 3000 points you are going to get slammed with so little heavy support I would think however I don't play games that big so I am not talking from experience YMMV.

Once you are over 2000 points you're heavy support choices should be without a good exception this. Depending on how big you go adding the 'rve and shield drones are more than acceptable for the points. You could side grade one unit to a Hammerhead for mobility at the cost of reliability. Your enemy only gets 3 Heavy choices also in a standard game you really won't need 9 TL Railguns. Sniper Drones are one of the most underrated units in the Tau Empire they provide one of our only viable AP3 weapons and can cause up to 9 pinning checks a turn if you rolled something legendary.

1: 3 Broadsides w/ ASS
2: 3 Broadsides w/ ASS
3: 3 Sniper Drone teams.

Back to suits. The "Death Rain" is easily the most reliable suit. Changing the "Fire knives" to "Death rains" and keeping the drones will shave 27 points per squad. Also the "Death rain" will hit 32 out of 36 shots at 53 points it is quite impressive accuracy and firepower. And do not forget 3 "Death rains" will just about average 1 glancing hit or better against a 12 armor vehicle a turn, you won't be hunting dreadnoughts all the time but its worth the shot now and again and lighter armor is even more vulnerable with an effective 42" range.

If you want "Fire Knives" shell out the points for the HQ choice for them this is needed because you need all of them to have 4 pieces of war gear. Its expensive but increases your accuracy to 24/36 (66%). You only need to close to within 24" to make good use of the suits potential but this isn't a choice I'm crazy about. Translation, I would field this probably never and use the 2nd choice instead. I expect everyone in this thread to not like my preferred squad though.

HQ - 291
'el , Plasma Rifle , Missile Pod , Targeting Array , HW Multi Tracker , HW Drone Controller , 2 Shield Drones
'vre , Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Targeting Arrays, HW Multi Trackers

In a big game with loads of points floating around this is my choice if you want to play a firing line army. Range isn't such an issue as they are coming to you, and when something does make it to within 12" you play a fun game called don't roll a 1 and you kill something. Looking at the potential for the unit it could force 9 invulnerable saves on a terminator squad if you rolled something legendary again.

HQ - 291
'el , Plasma Rifle , Fusion Blaster , Targeting Array , HW Multi Tracker , HW Drone Controller , 2 Shield Drones
'vre , Plasma Rifles, Fusion Blaster , Targeting Arrays, HW Multi Trackers

Lastly I don't care for how expensive you made those Devilfish, they put out decent firepower but each one has the same cost as another 12 man firewarrior squad.

Its late, I make no guarantee that my math is 100%. But a few things to think about.

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the feedback! I have resigned myself to the fact that I'll be tearing weapons arms off of my suits, so here is a revised list. I especially need advice on the suits still! I've made the commanders Missile Pod / Fusion Blaster, and the others Deathrains with flamers. I've also maxxed broadsides in my two heavy support units, and made the troop devilfish cheaper (still with SMS so that I don't give away free drone kill points!). Thanks for all the tips so far

Commander Shas'el- 198
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, 2 Shield Drones
1 Bodyguard
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array
Commander Shas'el- 198
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, 2 Shield Drones
1 Bodyguard
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array

3 Deathrains, with flamers- 176
2 Shield drones
3 Deathrains, with flamers- 176
2 Shield drones
6 Stealthsuits- 300
12 Gun Drones

12 Fire Warriors- 225
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
12 Fire Warriors- 225
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
12 Fire Warriors- 225
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
12 Fire Warriors- 120
(Ride in Pathfinders' Devilfish)

8 Pathfinders- 201
Devilfish- Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod
3 Piranhas- 225
Fusion Blasters, Disruption Pods, Targeting Arrays

Hammerhead- 180
Railgun, Smart Missile System, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pod, Target Lock
3 Broadsides- 275
Advanced Stabilisation Systems, 2 Shield Drones
3 Broadsides- 275
Advanced Stabilisation Systems, 2 Shield Drones

Total- 2999

I feel like I should add the multitrackers back on the devilfish? Otherwise, they're not going to be taking advantage of their SMS (which doesn't need LOS) when they move 12" (which should be often). Also, I don't believe the deathrains need multitrackers to fire their twin-linked missile pods?

Thanks

Give this HQ a whorl. Specifically designed to clear objectives and stubborn units in cover while maintaining maximum flexibility and lethality. If moderately lucky you can wipe out 10+MEQ/turn and the flamers deny cover saves while the FB carves up tanks.

Shas'el
FB,CIB,HWMT,HWDC,HWTL,Stims, Bonding w/2 shield drones
Shas'vre
TL PR, Flamer,HWMT,HWDC, w/two gun drones
Shas'vre
TL PR, Flamer,HWMT,HWDC, w/two shield drones
292

Expensive but at 3000 pts you can afford it

Remember to abuse wound allocation

I do try not to abuse wound allocation

Also, I just want to check: are my suits legal? You can field a Deathrain (twin-linked missile pods) with a flamer?

I want to get some fusion blasters in there (along with the flamers) for short-range nastiness, so that's why I put those in the HQ. Still needs tweaking, so let me know your tips guys . Thanks for those razorlead!

I'm also thinking of adding a target lock to the broadside team leaders (3 TL railguns seems like a bit much for one target).

Hey there RTN, great post and thanks for taking the time to post pictures of your army.

It looks like you got yourself quite a bit of help, but unfortunately your suits are not within legal parameters.

If you want your HQ to fire two weapons or any other crisis for that matter you need a Multi Tracker (MT).

For example, the correct way of equipping your HQ: MP, FB, MT, Hard Wired Drone Controller (HwDC), 2xSD. I added the Hard Point MT and the HwDC, because they are essentials for your configuration to function.

Your BG's being Team Leaders Plus (TmLd+), such as Vre's, can and NEED to equip a HwMT to fire both weapons otherwise you cut your efficiency.

Non-TmLd's such as your Death Rains (DR's) are in a rock and a hard place when it comes to firing both weapons, but non-TL configurations reserve one Hard Point for MT regardless the configuration, because they have too.

If you really want to learn everything about TAU try dropping by Advanced Tau Tactica (ATT).
-Spec.Ops

I read Dashofpepper's whole wall of text, and I don't even play TAU.

I must be pretty bored, even thought a lot of what he said made sense =)

Spec.Ops, thanks for the tips! I'm having a little trouble understanding some of the acronyms. I was thinking the HQ would only fire one weapon at a time (but I can free up points for the multi-tracker).

Spec.Ops wrote:Non-TmLd's such as your Death Rains (DR's) are in a rock and a hard place when it comes to firing both weapons, but non-TL configurations reserve one Hard Point for MT regardless the configuration, because they have too.

From this quote, I'm thinking that the deathrains (firing a Twin-Linked Missile Pod) are Okay as they are, as long as they only fire the TL missile pods OR the flamers?

Thanks again Do you have a link to the Tactica?

1. Kroot - Suck...please never use them ever again. My Kroot have done nothing in 20 straight games but run out...kill one or two guys and Die...sometimes they never get to do anything.

2.Shas-el's? Really?! (0)_(0) You have a 3000k army without a shas'O not using either Shadowsun Nor are you using a Farsight?

3.WTF is a fireknife? Is this 5th edition rules your using because I have never heard of that and its not in my codex.

4.Stealth Team looks good...I myself Only take 1 drone controller with Gun drones and take target Array (despite what others say) It does help when you are not waisting a Marker light on that troop for a more fitting one that needs it more...Like a troop of firewarriors or something you absolutely need to hit...like a broadside for example!

5.Broadsides look OK.

Kroot are one of the best options in the codex. Seriously. You should have at least two squads of them. Saying Kroot suck is like saying Ork Boyz suck; they're cost effective short range shooting and potent in close combat.

More importantly, they're a good speed bump unit that you can use to screen your insanely expensive suits. If you don't screen your suits, they will die to any army with any assault capability.

Vasarto, I don't have my codex on-hand, but I meant to list the "better" HQ. If that is Shas'O, not Shas'el, that's just a typo

Also, about the fireknives... I posted this above

RiTides Nids wrote:For anyone who doesn't play Tau or know the fan names for suits:
Fireknives = Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod
Deathrains = Twin-linked Missile Pods

Sourclams- If I were to keep a few squads of kroot, how big do they need to be to be effective? I was planning to hide the suits behind the devilfish, if I had kroot I was thinking they might infiltrate (or whatever it's called now come on from the edge) to try to grab some objectives (or just hold one in my own zone, if it's in a forest!).

I'm not sold on them, though... could you convince me why I should include them? I'll have to drop something else to get them... I don't want to go past 3000 points total

Thanks!

dude that is a brutal paint job

I fit in some kroot, and I edited the first post to reflect the changes. It seems a bit un-cool to put the FW squads at 6 apiece, so I may undo that. I still really need help on the HQ! Should I put both bodyguards with one of them, and give the other the positional relay, and do a bit of ninja tau? Or deepstrike him to take out a tank? Or keep each of them with one bodyguard? I'm clueless as I haven't really had my HQ suits do anything worthwhile yet, so I'd love to make them more effective.

Thanks

sourclams wrote:Kroot are one of the best options in the codex. Seriously. You should have at least two squads of them. Saying Kroot suck is like saying Ork Boyz suck; they're cost effective short range shooting and potent in close combat.

More importantly, they're a good speed bump unit that you can use to screen your insanely expensive suits. If you don't screen your suits, they will die to any army with any assault capability.

QFT, i have seen a seven man squad of guardians ,beat down and then catch a 3 man squad of Crisis Suits in one turn of combat. kroot are weak, but cheap, and you they are a mobile meat shield, if put into cover they can stick around for a while.i don't see why your not looking into the whole 10+ piranhas. 2 squads of five, mix in some fusion blasters in there and watch the anti armor deep strike in. well maybe they can't haven't looked at a tau codex in a long time, so correct me if i am wrong.

DR's do not need to fire a second weapon to be effective.

The catch 22 is that I have always found the single weapon DR missile boat out shines dual wielding configurations.

Surprisingly enough, one can find many math hammer articles comparing the trinity crisis and more on various sites, and the usual victor is the DR once the totals are compared.

But, the best advice I can give to you is to go out there and get some games in. See what works as a whole and what techs the meta - nothing beats trigger time.

Oh, and here is the link to ATT, but you should really get some coffee because you might be reading for quite a while.

Spec.Ops, I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly- I believe I'm agreeing with you! I just have the flamers on the Deathrains as a back-up weapon (not to fire along with the missile pods).

Thanks for all the feedback, guys! As you can see I've changed the list a lot (if you saw how it was before) based on your feedback