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This weekend is my ard' boyz tourney and heres my list, i have played a variety of armies with this list and they have all been really good. I have had some trouble with mech eldar but mostly due to poor rolling. other than that its been decent. Constuctive Criticism would be very much appreciated.

HQs
Flyrant
Wings(duh)
Adrenal Glands I & WS
Toxin Sacs
Two Scything Talons

Tyrant
Two TL Devourers
Enhanced Senses
Toxin Sacs
W/3 tyrant guard

Elites
3 Carnifex
All w/ Enhanced Senses
and 2 TL Devourers

Troops
11 Genestealer all w/ Scything Talons
and Feeder Tendrils

11 Genestealer all w/ Scything Talons
and Feeder Tendrils

11 Genestealer all w/ Scything Talons
and Feeder Tendrils

11 Genestealer all w/ Scything Talons
and Feeder Tendrils

17 hormaguants

24 Termaguants
W/Flesborers

Heavy Support
3 Carnifex
all w/ Enhanced Senses
Barbed Strangler
Venom Cannon



Thank You

HQ - I would take two dakka walking tyrants and 3 tyrant guards. The flyrant will just get shot up turn 1 in such a high point game.

Troops - Give the genestealers scuttlers so that they can outflank. Drop the hormigaunts and add a WoN Spinegaunt brood that is 8 strong for objectives and increase the size of the termagaunt as much as possible.

Elites/Heavy Support
For the elite fexen I would go with boomfexes (ST, BS) in such a large game. Large Templates do alot of damage in these type of games .
The Heavy support one are fine!

Hope this helps.

Drop hormagaunts and add termagaunts WON. Add WON to existing termagaunts.

I would not add it to the existing unit because that is expensive I would increase their number so they can provide cover longer or take longer to kill in the KP missions!

The genestealers dont need the scything talons and should be taking scutllers. No need for hormagaunts and termagaunts, just a few 8-10 strong units of spine gaunts with without number because most ard boys style games will be objective based. The flyrant should be another dakka tyrant. You should also think about what you are going to do against other morecompetative lists like thunder hammer terminators and biker nobs. Taking two tyrants and three zoanthropes with psychic scream could help against terminators charging out of land raiders. Nidzilla isnt as much of a kill switch in fifth addition and you should experiment to find out whats best for you.

I see why you have the hormagaunts (as a screen for the stealers...at least I hope that's what they are for) but it makes much more sense to just use gaunts (cheaper, even with WoN).

I would definately add WoN to a gaunt brood if you replace the hormies so you have at least 1 unit that can camp your objective.

Also lose the scything talons on the stealers and take scuttlers instead. With your many fexes they can either create a danger zone on the edges OR protect your MC's with their scuttle move from daemons and horde orks.

I disagree with Irkjoe about you having trouble with nob bikers, 3 venom cannons and barbed stranglers should thin their numbers nicely, though I would replace 1 of your dakkafexes with a strangler fex (gives you some versatility if you face non MEQs since BS's are better and your heavy fexes should be dealing with vehicles).

Lukus83 wrote:I see why you have the hormagaunts (as a screen for the stealers...at least I hope that's what they are for) but it makes much more sense to just use gaunts (cheaper, even with WoN).

I would definately add WoN to a gaunt brood if you replace the hormies so you have at least 1 unit that can camp your objective.

Also lose the scything talons on the stealers and take scuttlers instead. With your many fexes they can either create a danger zone on the edges OR protect your MC's with their scuttle move from daemons and horde orks.

I disagree with Irkjoe about you having trouble with nob bikers, 3 venom cannons and barbed stranglers should thin their numbers nicely, though I would replace 1 of your dakkafexes with a strangler fex (gives you some versatility if you face non MEQs since BS's are better and your heavy fexes should be dealing with vehicles).

What what? Hormagaunts should be dealing a punch themselves not acting as a screen for other units. You obviously dont understand how they work. But I do understand that thier is not much joy for them but they will work well with that winged hive tyrant.

Your heavy support carnifexes all should have T7 & 2+ saves. Then screen them with some gaunts & call it a day! T6 & 3+ saves I think will let them die too quickly, especially with the amount of auto-cannon type fire that will be flying around.

The flying hive tyrant - I think he will be annhilated too quickly as theres not enough support, In terms of really fast - must attack soon or die - stuff. A tyrant + guard can still assault Landraiders & such, just with a few less attacks.

Razerous wrote:
What what? Hormagaunts should be dealing a punch themselves not acting as a screen for other units. You obviously dont understand how they work. But I do understand that thier is not much joy for them but they will work well with that winged hive tyrant.

How? They cannot defeat armor OR an armor save, are hideously expensive for no real reason, can't take a shot and have a chance to survive, and can't use their speed very well because they will be out of synapse range.

In a super competitive 'Ard Boyz tournament, Hormies are just a waste of points.

I love my Hormagaunts too, but I only ever use them against Tau.

I'm sorry, but hormagaunts don't pack a punch. And they don't work well with a winged tyrant. If you multi charge a unit then chances are the opponent will strike back at the hormies and you will end up losing combat. 17 hormies (bare) against ANY smart player will find themselves assaulting last due to cover.

The only benefit of them in this list is to give cover saves to the stealers (since they don't have scuttlers) and it's a job performed just as well by gaunts (except that they dont have a 12" charge).

The hive tyrant can probably go though as at 2500 pts he isn't gonna survive past turn 2.

with a Land Raider spam Space Wolves list i can tell you how i would try to win this one.

In mission 2 i would keep my LRs moving full speed using POTMS to blast at your venom cannon fexes and your flyrant. In missions 1 and 3 i might just sit the LR in cover on an objective and wait for you to pop it, you have no flesh hooks and I would bet good money that striking first with counter-attack would not make your stealers or your nidzillas happy.

Well yes, nids hate av14. It's a fact and I doubt any other marine player would do it differently. However, how likely is he to face landraider spam?

Um, Land Raider spam is easy to beat with nids. Its called a carnifex...

As to your list, I agree with most of the previous comments. Your Flyrant is going to die before he does anything, you're better off with another walking tyrant w/ 3 guard. I usually run mine with scything talons and a venom cannon due to facing a lot of mech, but double devourer isn't bad if you know you'll face infantry lists. I'd drop a unit of genestealers to get more gaunts as a screen for your tyrants and change the scything talons to scuttlers.

Why haven't you put an extra wound on your heavy support carnifexes? 15 points for a wound is a steal.

Not so easy when you hit on 6's in cc, and can only glance with VC's.

Lukus83 wrote:Not so easy when you hit on 6's in cc, and can only glance with VC's.

If you can get a CC fex into combat with a Land Raider, it will probably die.

Daydream wrote:Um, Land Raider spam is easy to beat with nids. Its called a carnifex...

As to your list, I agree with most of the previous comments. Your Flyrant is going to die before he does anything, you're better off with another walking tyrant w/ 3 guard. I usually run mine with scything talons and a venom cannon due to facing a lot of mech, but double devourer isn't bad if you know you'll face infantry lists. I'd drop a unit of genestealers to get more gaunts as a screen for your tyrants and change the scything talons to scuttlers.

Why haven't you put an extra wound on your heavy support carnifexes? 15 points for a wound is a steal.

WOW... easy to beat? Yeah.... NO. Have you ever played a Land Raider Spam. If you have and have beaten it "easy" the player that you played sucks. It is a uphill battle for the nids against an army like that.

As I said before drop the Hormigaunts. They are not good and don't listen to the people who tell you they are (these are the same people that will say a swarm can win and well it can't). They leave out the part where you have to make them 13-14ppm and be in a group of 25-32 to even be half way decent and even then if you will need to have flesh hooks on them because well most likely if you are playing a good player (you will be it's a tournament) they will stay in cover and shoot the hell out of you. This is why you need outflanking genestealers. Those little guys will make and break the game for you.

I do agree however in dropping the scything talons and would maybe even drop the genestealers down to 8 strong if you go with outflanking. Now before you say wow you crazy listen to this... what usually happens with large groups of stealers? Well, basically they roll over whatever unit they face and then get shot to hell the next turn. The reason I say 8 is because it is a large enough group to do damage but not totally destroy the opponent the 1st round of combat and also large enough to take the counter attack of the unit you charged. They will stay in CC and be able to skip the shooting phase and will most likely destroy that unit in the opponents assault phase and then will move onto another unit in your next turn!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mattlov wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:Not so easy when you hit on 6's in cc, and can only glance with VC's.

If you can get a CC fex into combat with a Land Raider, it will probably die.

BTW that CC fex will be dead before it gets there....

If you really wanna go with a "screen" for your bigger threats, run ripper swarms. At 3 wounds for 10 pts a piece (albeit lower strength and WS, but more attacks) its well worth it. I normally give them leaping, run them into range of whatever I can, and leap on em. They can typically take out 1 troop unit if they're ignored and I roll good (brood of 10, 4 attacks a piece on the charge, its pretty nasty in some cases). Then I run up a punchyfex and pound them.

Honestly tho, in my honest opinion, BS/VC elite fexes don't do it for me :/ I personally like kitted out fexes with dual ST or Crushing Claws/ST. One game I rolled a 5 while facing a bunch of termies... 7 attacks on the charge with a monsterous creature with impact. Pretty nasty. Plus he absolutely WRECKS tanks. Thats just what I prefer tho

Zid wrote:If you really wanna go with a "screen" for your bigger threats, run ripper swarms. At 3 wounds for 10 pts a piece (albeit lower strength and WS, but more attacks) its well worth it. I normally give them leaping, run them into range of whatever I can, and leap on em. They can typically take out 1 troop unit if they're ignored and I roll good (brood of 10, 4 attacks a piece on the charge, its pretty nasty in some cases). Then I run up a punchyfex and pound them.

Honestly tho, in my honest opinion, BS/VC elite fexes don't do it for me :/ I personally like kitted out fexes with dual ST or Crushing Claws/ST. One game I rolled a 5 while facing a bunch of termies... 7 attacks on the charge with a monsterous creature with impact. Pretty nasty. Plus he absolutely WRECKS tanks. Thats just what I prefer tho

Ok the ripper swarm will be gone if it gets touched by any decent template weapon and it can't capture objectives. It is basically a waste of a troop choice. Also, CC fexes are not good tornies they will get shot up before they can do anything if you face a half way decent player.

I have tossed around the idea of taking out the hormaguants in order to put WON on my termaguants, i realize this would be very helpful as far as objextive matches go buy in a kill point mission it might hurt, im still debating. And i beleive someone above said i should upgrade my HS fexes to T7 and 2plus save, and screen them with guants. first off i thought MCs didnt get cover SVs. also chances are if its deniying a carnifex its save its already AP 2 or less with doesnt really help with a save of 2plus. But pretty much what is in this list is WHAT I HAVe. But i thank you all very much it has helped in what i plan on doing. keep more criticism coming, please.

Don't give existing termagaunts WoN but get a small group of 8 with it. That way you aren't paying to much for it. The Carnifexes will get cover from the guards who get cover from the gaunts.

I would play a similar list. But I pefer 3 Zoan w/ blast and scream. Scream would help counter any psychers out there, plus it helps stuff run away that isnt fearless. Plus it gives you 3 St 10's that can penatrate those landraiders.

I wold also add the 2+/6++ psychic power to the flyrant and either scream or the 3d6 spell power to counter any psychers (a.k.a. lash spam). But that would only really help if you ran the 3 Zoans.

I agree with dropping scything talons off the genes.

Good luck

Panurgle wrote:I would play a similar list. But I pefer 3 Zoan w/ blast and scream. Scream would help counter any psychers out there, plus it helps stuff run away that isnt fearless. Plus it gives you 3 St 10's that can penatrate those landraiders.

I wold also add the 2+/6++ psychic power to the flyrant and either scream or the 3d6 spell power to counter any psychers (a.k.a. lash spam). But that would only really help if you ran the 3 Zoans.

I agree with dropping scything talons off the genes.

Good luck

I run the "Nuke Choir" every once and awhile but it won't help much in 'Ard Boyz because everyone is mech'ed up and/or fearless. It is a good style don't get me wrong but those zoanthropes won't survive that long and just add more killpoints to the list. Do agree with adding the Shadow in the Warp thou it might save you some. One thing to note is that the lash spam won't hurt Nids that much (Wow you moved on carnifex or bunched up my gaunts...). Those 3 S10 warp blast sound great till you realize that you have to pass a psychic (then get pass a Librarian or other model w/ a psychic hood which most Land Raider Spam armies will have), hit with a BS3, then roll 2 5+ rolls in order to destroy that land raider... Yeah most likely it won't happen.

True about the extra kill points. But I beat another nid player at last years Necro when his Carn failed his leadership test and lurked and thus prevented him from claiming an objective thanks to the chior. Yes it was 4th Ed, but after that I always ran them. I always felt it added more all around possibilities to my list. I am not a big 5th ed fan so I havent played it much and not sure how they would work with it.

But I would still take my chances with 3 St 10 shooting at 3 different targets hitting on 4's with a possibility to penatrate it. Compared to 1 fex only hitting 1 target on 4's and only having a chance to glance it.

But again its only my opinion. I think both options will work.

I wasn't really saying that it wouldn't be effective because I believe it can. The effectiveness of the list comes out in the late game/end game. But the only problem is that they might not be there when you really need them.

Carnifexes don't actually have to take instinctive behaviour tests...taken care of in the FAQ, although if it was 4th ed maybe they had to.

The problem with zoanthropes are that they give out kill points and carnifexes can be made much more durable and get more variety of weapons. In tournaments I believe fexes are the only competitive choice (especially with the abundance of mech, fearless and the introduction of KPs). But I may be wrong.

Yeah he is right it was taken care of in an Errata (import to note that because those are actually official).

Glad the faqed that for carnis. Yes the 4-5 wound carni would have better staying power than the zoans. Guess I need to get more games with my nids in 5th ed.