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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 11:11:41
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Killer Klaivex
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Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/07/2618529.htm Only a week ago, both the US and Russian presidents were saying how concerned they were that their countries' relations had slipped so far. Now, after a four-hour meeting in the Kremlin, presidents Barack Obama and Dmitry Medvedev have announced that ties are already improving. Among the agreements reached, the leaders have outlined how they are moving closer to a new treaty for further cuts to their nuclear arsenals. Under steely skies, Mr Obama walked slowly to the beat of a military band towards the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at the foot of the Kremlin walls to perform his first duty in Russia as US President - the laying of a wreath. Just a few moments before the ceremony, it seemed as though Mother Nature was going to provide a metaphor for the state of US-Russia relations; the clouds darkened and the wind picked up. But then the weather gave the sort of sign the two countries leaders are looking for - the storm stayed away and there was even a hint of sun as the US President placed the wreath in front of the eternal flame. The wreath-laying ceremony over, Mr Obama headed off in his motorcade to go behind the Kremlin walls. The few moments of reflection that he had just had were to be replaced by several hours of talks with Mr Medvedev. "This is certainly an important day in the history of Russian-American relations", Mr Medvedev said, in welcoming his US counterpart. "We hope that as a result of our work today and tomorrow, with a comprehensive exchange of views, we'll be able to close a number of complex pages in the history of Russian-American relations, and open a new page." Arms, transit agreements After four hours of talks pages were being signed, as a raft of agreements was announced. Among them Russia will allow US military equipment bound for Afghanistan to be transported through its territory, and a US-Russia bilateral commission will be formed to help along relations. But the major announcement was about moving closer to a new treaty for cutting their nuclear arsenals. "We have signed a joint understanding for a follow-on treaty to the START agreement that will reduce our nuclear warheads and delivery systems by up to a third from our current treaty limitation," Mr Obama said. Mr Medvedev explained that the cutbacks that both sides would be looking at for the treaty were in the range of 500 to 1,100 ballistic missile carriers and between 1,500 and 1,675 nuclear warheads, within seven years. The two leaders said at the media conference there were still differences, for instance over American plans for a missile defence shield in Europe, which Russia sees as a threat to its security. But both sides talked hopefully of finding a solution to that controversy and, overall, both presidents talked of seeing a brighter future for US-Russia relations. "The President and I agreed that the relationship between Russia and the United States has suffered from a sense of drift," Mr Obama said. "We resolved to reset US-Russian relations so that we can cooperate more effectively in areas of common interest." Author and analyst Nicolai Petrov, from the Carnegie Moscow Centre, says at this stage it seems that American hands are pushing harder on the relations reset button than the Russians' but he also sees hope for improved ties. "It doesn't mean that certain problems have been solved but it means that certain ways for fixing these problems was created," he said. "It depends now how far and how effectively both sides will go along these directions."
Good news eh? Moving to reduce the number of nuclear weapons is the right thing to do, and I personally hope to see them phased out in my lifetime. Just goes to show that even the deeply stubborn can change, huh? I know I have. With all that British-Russian tension in the past couple of years, I was seriously concerned about the possibility of another Cold War, but it looks like I'm wrong again. I might be speaking too soon, but hey, I'm naturally an optimist.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/07 11:13:34
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 11:56:34
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
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Optimism is needed these days and I agree with you.
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 12:02:17
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver
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You mean the US and Russia are actually honoring their obligations as Nuclear Weapon States under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to move towards disarmament?
And to think I thought all the Nuclear Weapon States had forgot about the second pillar of that treaty and instead wanted to just keep everyone else from having Nukes, while they continued to grow their stock piles (or at least keep the Status quo.)
Good for us and Russia.
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Waagh! Lagduf
Sons of Vulkan
Cadian Mountain Division
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 12:51:22
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Good thing to see Obama about to throw Eastern Europe, that risked greatly, under the bus, for er, nothing. As Jon Stewart stated last night:
"Thats great Mr. President. How about FIX THE ECONOMY!"
Bill Clinton would agree.
As an aside, Rasmussen has more people polling as "strongly disapproving" now than "strongly approving", going on two weeks now.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/07 12:59:40
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 14:00:33
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 14:08:28
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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You don't want to see public views on specific issues if you're an Obama supporter right now. They have been substantially lower for months. At least they are better than Congressional approval which has fallen to low twin digits.
Man I love statistics. I missed my calling.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 14:18:25
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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While Obama's overall approval rating remains basically unchanged, his marks on some specific issues have dropped over the past few months.
"President Obama is more popular than his policies. Three-quarters of Americans like President Obama. But just over half approve of his policies," says CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider.
So how do Obama's approval ratings compare to his predecessors' at the same time in their presidencies?
"From a numbers perspective, Obama's track record so far is closest to Ronald Reagan's. Reagan's approval rating in mid-to-late June of his first year in office was 59 percent," Holland said. Obama is far more popular than Bill Clinton was in June 1993, when Clinton's rating was only 39 percent, he added — and far less popular than the elder George Bush, whose approval rating hit 70 percent in June 1989. George W. Bush's rating was 55 percent in the summer of 2001.
CNN's Poll of Polls consists of five surveys conducted over the past two weeks: ABC/Washington Post (June 18-21), the Gallup tracking poll (June 18-21), CBS/New York Times (June 12-16), NBC-Wall Street Journal (June 12-15) and the Pew Research Center (June 10-14). The CNN Poll of Polls is an average of several surveys, and does not have a sampling error.
as of June 23rd. from the above link ( well, link within that, but you etc etc )
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 14:29:04
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Never trust CBS/NY Times for polls-even the DNC ignores them. Gallup and WSJ noted above are better.
Congressional Healthcare 50% support (less than Clinton attempt at this timeline)
Cap and Trade Bill 42% think will hurt US economy, 56% not willing to pay more in taxes or costs. Its DOA to at the Senate.
42% believe Obama good on economic issues.
On the positive employment index up to highest point since October. That’s good.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 14:50:38
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Umber Guard
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Yay let's give up our nukes while countries like North Korea and Iran are dumping the vastness of their economies into producing them and the means to launch them at us...
There's something to say for the security MAD gave us during the cold war even though the weapons that allowed such a policy were terrible.
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Your side is always the "will of the people" the other side is always fundamentalist, extremist, hatemongers, racists, anti- semitic nazies with questionable education and more questionable hygiene. American politics 101.
-SGT Scruffy
~10,000 pts (Retired)
Protectorate of Menoth 75pts (and Growing) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 14:58:54
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Tyras wrote:There's something to say for the security MAD gave us during the cold war even though the weapons that allowed such a policy were terrible.
Different foes require different approaches though surely ? Whilst the , officially, atheistic USSR was as keen to avoid a nuclear war as the rational elements of the western nations, I would suggest that some of the more..... fanatical..... elements in the regions you're mentioning have no such fear.
And there's a big difference between reducing the number you've got and eliminating all of them too.
Plus, given the fact that the former USSR is a recognised area where "unfriendly"  ... organisations have/might try to acquire nuclear weapons or materials I would argue it is therefore in the USA's interests to encourage the reduction of materials like that in that region.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/07 15:00:49
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 17:04:27
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Tyras wrote:Yay let's give up our nukes while countries like North Korea and Iran are dumping the vastness of their economies into producing them and the means to launch them at us...
There's something to say for the security MAD gave us during the cold war even though the weapons that allowed such a policy were terrible.
Just as well then that they will struggle to get the delivery system to have a long enough range, and the paltry dozen or so they can cobble together would be very easily intercepted should they ever be launched at a Western nation!
Israel of course, is a different matter. They're much closer. But hey, they got their own Nukes, so fair's fair.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 17:38:44
Subject: Re:Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
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Tyras wrote:Yay let's give up our nukes while countries like North Korea and Iran are dumping the vastness of their economies into producing them and the means to launch them at us... There's something to say for the security MAD gave us during the cold war even though the weapons that allowed such a policy were terrible. Yes, because we need five thousand nuclear devices to take out North Korea. Yep, any reduction at all would be disastrous. You're a moron. Even with three times the proposed reduction we could destroy both of those countries dozens of times over. Russia too.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/07 17:40:55
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 17:51:36
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Modquisition on: Gentlemen, a reminder of Dakka Rule #1: be polite. Violator's posts wil be reviewed for disciplinary action.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 17:54:33
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
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Yeah but NoKo and Iran are part of the axis of evil there's no telling what they can do with a few nukes. They could sell them to Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Outer Heaven or god forbid the Sons of the Patriots. Think of the children (and Israel), won't somebody think of the children (and Israel)?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/07 17:54:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 18:51:14
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:Good thing to see Obama about to throw Eastern Europe, that risked greatly, under the bus, for er, nothing.
Uh, what? Exactly where is this bus you're talking about, or the throwing motion for that matter? Automatically Appended Next Post: Tyras wrote:Yay let's give up our nukes while countries like North Korea and Iran are dumping the vastness of their economies into producing them and the means to launch them at us...
Since the reliability of roughly half our arsenal is dubious at best, this is hardly a bad decision.
Also, we have nearly 10,000 nuclear warheads. Roughly half of them in active service. Losing 2,000 of them is irrelevant.
Tyras wrote:
There's something to say for the security MAD gave us during the cold war even though the weapons that allowed such a policy were terrible.
MAD is at its most effective in a bipolar security environment. With multiple nuclear armed states, all of them serving their own interests, the balance becomes far more challenging.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/07 18:55:45
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 18:59:30
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Obama stated he was willing to reconsider the nuclear shield in Poland etc. He has currently allocated $-0- to it, putting money where his mouth is. COndiering what Eastern Europe has risked to agree to the shield-invasion ala Georgia, this is a big difference. While I personally wouldn't shield Europe from squat, this is kind of an in your face brush aside.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 19:12:54
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot
Chicago
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Frazzled wrote:Good thing to see Obama about to throw Eastern Europe, that risked greatly, under the bus, for er, nothing.
The 1980's called. They want their Cold War attitude back. The U.S. and Russia reducing nukes is just a good idea. We built way, way too many back in the day and we can't do much more than hope that they won't fall into the wrong hands now. An overall reduction is a very good thing. It hardly leaves us powerless.
As to North Korea, I think their danger is how little they care about MAD. Their people are generally so obedient that they'd die to take us out or to even hurt the West.
Also, Medvedev is a puppet. You can even see Putin's hand going up his ass. It's Putin that scares the crap out of me.
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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho Marx
Sanctjud wrote:It's not just lame... it's Twilight Blood Angels Nipples Lame.  |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 19:12:55
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:Obama stated he was willing to reconsider the nuclear shield in Poland etc. He has currently allocated $-0- to it, putting money where his mouth is. COndiering what Eastern Europe has risked to agree to the shield-invasion ala Georgia, this is a big difference. While I personally wouldn't shield Europe from squat, this is kind of an in your face brush aside.
Eastern Europe can't risk anything, it isn't a contiguous state. Poland, as a NATO member, risked nothing. Throw in the fact that Russia would have to drive through Belarus to get there and you have an even easier decision.
The only state that found itself in something of an uncertain position was the Ukraine with respect to natural gas prices.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 19:38:48
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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The 2009's called Mad Rabbit. They'd like an issue that arose since my kids were born to be addressed. This ain't it.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 19:41:56
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Stubborn Temple Guard
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I can't help but read that and be nauseated by the sheer fawning and love the reporter/editor have for Obama.
The news is good, but the writing was wretched. I was half expecting to see the line:
"I then ran to Obama and dry humped him in exchange for getting paid ever again by my private media outlet."
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27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/07 20:14:36
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Fixture of Dakka
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Mattlov wrote:
The news is good, but the writing was wretched.
I concur...
In regard to the news... I'm just curious as to what benefits the US government can garner from this and how they may exploit it. From some stuff I'm currently reading, thats been somewhat of a trend with the US. Then again I'm still kind of noobish with all this current event stuff so I may be reading into something incorrectly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/08 07:59:40
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Mattlov wrote:I can't help but read that and be nauseated by the sheer fawning and love the reporter/editor have for Obama.
The news is good, but the writing was wretched. I was half expecting to see the line:
"I then ran to Obama and dry humped him in exchange for getting paid ever again by my private media outlet."
Really? Most of the article is defined by direct quotation. There are 3 sentences that I would classify as 'color', and only one of them refers to Obama by name.
A lot of the press fawns over the man, but detecting that phenomenon in this article is flat out absurd.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/08 08:13:20
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Just a few moments before the ceremony, it seemed as though Mother Nature was going to provide a metaphor for the state of US-Russia relations; the clouds darkened and the wind picked up.
But then the weather gave the sort of sign the two countries leaders are looking for - the storm stayed away and there was even a hint of sun as the US President placed the wreath in front of the eternal flame.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/08 08:24:49
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Killer Klaivex
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Nothing wrong with putting a poetic spin on it.
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People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/08 08:33:19
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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It was silly.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/08 08:53:11
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Cheese Elemental wrote:Nothing wrong with putting a poetic spin on it.
"Under steely skies"...
Someone got through 3* years of journalism to come out into the real world and give us the line 'under steely skies'. I don't agree that he was fawning over Obama, I think he was just trying to add a sense of drama and importance to 'world leaders conduct talks and announce no major policy changes', which probably needs to be spruced up a bit.
But 'under steely skies' is just not dreadful. The whole will it/won't it rain suspense was even sillier.
*Or is it 4 in the US?
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/09 07:35:49
Subject: Obama and Russia 'reset' Cold War relations
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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4 in undergrad, and 1 in graduate.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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