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I was reading another thread about cheating, and someone told a story about someone who would measure 18" when they moved their land raider to see if they were going to be in assault range after moving it 12". Obviously cheating there.

What about if the land raider were to stretch out their tape measure 12" but then only move 6" of that. Is that cheating? I presume that still counts as moving combat speed, not cruising speed? As far as I know, the movement rule says to measure, then move....didn't see any restrictions.

And here's another question then...

If you measure distance for a unit, then don't move them, are they still considered as having moved? If you've got something with heavy weapons...if you measure for them, then decide against moving, does it still count?

The rules say you cannot pre measure.

If you measure 18" for a model that can only move 12", it is kind of a dick move, and of questionable legality.

As for the movement, no, it does not:

Page 11 wrote:
"It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else (even the opposite way entirely I) or decide not to move it at all."

You guys and your cat pictures.

Creepy.

mines my actual cat :(

Well, I often (atleast once a game) "cheat" when shooting my bolters or other weapons to measure distances, even if its obvious a unit may be in rapid fire range. Its sometimes good to know how many turns away the unit behind them is, or whether or not my assaulting unit on the flank is going to be able to reach this particular unit. Other times I want to measure how far away from an objective I am. One time I measured through a squad of zerkers at a tank atleast 40 inches away with my CSM 24 inch bolters (that couldnt hurt it, and had a 4+ cover save) to see whether or not I should run into area terrain for cover or assault a squad of tacts infront of them.

I dont feel bad about it at all. I never intentionally cheat and always give my opponent the benefit of the doubt, but if I can get a free measure, Im going to take it.

I'll often measure moving distance for my vehicles to their maximum length, even when i know i'm probably only going to move half or less. I wouldn't call this cheating.

Measuring above your maximum movement would be.

The game is about relative positions between units and therefore as long as people are not measuring the distance from unit to unit, I don't see any advantage or reason to force anyone to guess or decide a move without measuring to their best advantage. Aside from that the rules don't require anyone to declare this distance before measuring, so calling cheating on multiple measurements for movement is a stretch.

I think RAI and RAW support this.

Night Lords wrote:Well, I often (atleast once a game) "cheat" when shooting my bolters or other weapons to measure distances, even if its obvious a unit may be in rapid fire range. Its sometimes good to know how many turns away the unit behind them is, or whether or not my assaulting unit on the flank is going to be able to reach this particular unit. Other times I want to measure how far away from an objective I am. One time I measured through a squad of zerkers at a tank atleast 40 inches away with my CSM 24 inch bolters (that couldnt hurt it, and had a 4+ cover save) to see whether or not I should run into area terrain for cover or assault a squad of tacts infront of them.

I dont feel bad about it at all. I never intentionally cheat and always give my opponent the benefit of the doubt, but if I can get a free measure, Im going to take it.

I'd call that a dick move. Measuring 40" for 24" range bolters is blatant cheating. Really no different than just pulling out your tape measure during any phase and just measuring the distance. In a casual game I'd ask what the hell you were doing. In a tournament setting, I'd probably let it go once before calling a judge over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flexen wrote:The game is about relative positions between units and therefore as long as people are not measuring the distance from unit to unit, I don't see any advantage or reason to force anyone to guess or decide a move without measuring to their best advantage. Aside from that the rules don't require anyone to declare this distance before measuring, so calling cheating on multiple measurements for movement is a stretch.

I think RAI and RAW support this.

I think the point of the rules that you can't pre-measure distances is to represent the fact that your troops can't know their exact charge range or the exact range of their weapons, so you have to declare your shooting and then if it's too far, your troops were out of range and they missed. If you allow players to pre measure, they will end up staying an inch or less out of shooting and charge ranges, which is ridiculous if you think of it in a battlefield situation.

Guessing ranges isn't as important as in WHFB, but the rule still makes sense.

As far as movement goes, I'm happy to let you measure your troops' movement range in any direction that you wish. Movement + charge is too much, though. By moving towards a charge, you incur the risk of running short and taking a rapid fire or counter charge.

Mad Rabbit wrote:

Night Lords wrote:Well, I often (atleast once a game) "cheat" when shooting my bolters or other weapons to measure distances, even if its obvious a unit may be in rapid fire range. Its sometimes good to know how many turns away the unit behind them is, or whether or not my assaulting unit on the flank is going to be able to reach this particular unit. Other times I want to measure how far away from an objective I am. One time I measured through a squad of zerkers at a tank atleast 40 inches away with my CSM 24 inch bolters (that couldnt hurt it, and had a 4+ cover save) to see whether or not I should run into area terrain for cover or assault a squad of tacts infront of them.

I dont feel bad about it at all. I never intentionally cheat and always give my opponent the benefit of the doubt, but if I can get a free measure, Im going to take it.

I'd call that a dick move. Measuring 40" for 24" range bolters is blatant cheating. Really no different than just pulling out your tape measure during any phase and just measuring the distance. In a casual game I'd ask what the hell you were doing. In a tournament setting, I'd probably let it go once before calling a judge over.

I dont measure 40 inches, I measure 24. I pull out my tape measure to 24 first and then aim at it.

But if you measure to move, then decide against it, is it still "counted" as having moved?

If I point to a squad of troops and say "moving these guys," then measure 6" all around them, decide that I can't move anywhere advantageous, and decide not to move them after all....I did measure. Does that count as moving? If you measure to shoot, it counts as shooting whether you fire or not doesn't it? You can't measure to shoot, then change your mind and run can you?

It would affect heavy weapons. If it counts as moving, then a tau sniper team couldn't fire if it measured to move. Just wondering.

If you measure for shooting, you've shot. (Excluding the rarely used Targeter in this example).

If you measure to move, then opt to not move, it's not an issue (excluding the Assault move which has it's own set of rules regarding declaring charges).

The only time it becomes an issue in the movement phase is when you roll for difficult terrain. If you roll the dice, the unit counts as moving, regardless if you decide to move the models or not.

Dashofpepper wrote:But if you measure to move, then decide against it, is it still "counted" as having moved?

If I point to a squad of troops and say "moving these guys," then measure 6" all around them, decide that I can't move anywhere advantageous, and decide not to move them after all....I did measure. Does that count as moving? If you measure to shoot, it counts as shooting whether you fire or not doesn't it? You can't measure to shoot, then change your mind and run can you?

It would affect heavy weapons. If it counts as moving, then a tau sniper team couldn't fire if it measured to move. Just wondering.

I would say no, as it says you may measure then decide not to move at all. As such, they have not moved.

Sarigar beat me to it... The Daemon Hunter wargear targeter allows you to pre measure. I can't think of any other cases off the top of my head.

Flash Gitz have Git Finders, letting you Pre Measure, again, a never used unit.

Please check your PMs, RaleighRoughNeck. -Iorek

In Terms of moving, I always pull out more of the meauring tape than I need. It would be extremely difficult to move something like a land raider only 6 inches with only the exact ammount of measuring tape to guide you.


I really don't find it necessary to "cheat" at 40k. Most of the time weapons like battle cannons and railguns are definatley gonna be in shooting range. I've always been good with judging distance anyway.

The rules for movement on p.11 indicate that you may measure a move and then decide not to move. Nowhere does any rule indicate that a unit which has measured movement, then decided not to move, counts as having moved.

So I'd argue no, models do not count as moving simply because they measured for movement.

-GK

It's certainly not honorable, but It sounds legal enough to me.