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Just as the title suggests, im wondering if gunlines for marines are very good, and is so can one be built with no vehicles, no including Dreadnoughts or Landspeeders.

Can you Dakka help me build it, and develop tactics for it, and the point cost 1000-1500points.

Thunder fire Cannons! ( or do you consider that to be vehicle still? )

I forgot to add i dont consider Rhino's vehicles, and i dont consider thunderfire cannons vehicles, but a one wound hundred point model isnt amazing.

The problem I have with gunlines are that they are succeptible to Lash. I have seen a Chaos Lash army wreck complete havoc with Gunlines. Now, the inclusion of a librarian would give you a 50/50 chance of defeating lash, but I still think with the evolution toward mech armies was a direct counter to both Lash and PBS.

I don't really like using marines in this fashion, because it does not make the most effective use of them. Unlike Guard, who can put their heavy/special weapons into separate squads, Marines have most of their heavy/special weapons integrated into the tactical squads. Devestators are an option, but a pricey one. If you were to make a gunline marine force, it would need to have a few dev squads to deal with enemy armored units like tanks and transports. Missile launchers would be cheaper, but Lascannons or Multi-meltas would be a must if you were facing heavy armor like Land Raiders, Leman Russes, or Monoliths.

This is how I would do it: 1250 Pt List


HQ
Librarian with Vortex of Doom (Cheap HQ with a high Strength Psy Attack to help deal with armor)

TROOPS
4 Tactical Squads with +5 marines and a Hvy Bolter

HEAVY SUPPORT
3 Devastator Squads with 12 Missile Launchers

TOTAL 1230

Basic Plan: The Tac squads are your static gunline with the dev squads placed in advantageous positions overlooking the gun line. They are your anti-infantry. If you need them to be non static, simply drop the Heavy Bolter out of them and replace that trooper with a special weapon that can be fired on the move, like a plasma or meltagun or even a flamer if you want the free weapon. The dev squads are your anti-armor units, attacking armor at range to destroy it before it can tank-shock your gunline to smithereens. Thus lascannons for heavy armor, but missile launchers will do fine for most transports and mech lists (which seem to be popular) while still having templates to deal with hordes if the need arises.

I don't really have a plan for the Libby, that one is just kinda there to fill the org slot. Ok, I have said all I can really say about a SM gunline idea. Give it a few goes and see what happens!

So a no by the looks of it, im still to find a marine list that suits me and the one's i make always seem to fail, or i start to pick holes in it later and i end up letting it go.

Xav wrote:So a no by the looks of it, im still to find a marine list that suits me and the one's i make always seem to fail, or i start to pick holes in it later and i end up letting it go.

Would be helpful if we see your list and what type of army your opponent runs.

I play a combination of Orks, choas, space marines and tau, but i make a list like it and pick holes into it, im trying to find a style of play that will suit me.

Why not Alpha-strike Drop Pod Marines? That basically fits the bill for no vehicles, and taking 3 squads of Sternguard plus Tacticals will give you the shooty army you're looking for, but geared towards the close range fire fights that Marines excel at.

I think that the metagame is headed more in the direction of infantry heavy Marines. Obviously that's not of much use if your local metagame isn't following suit, and I'm not sure it's going far enough to make it a strong list, but like virtually all Marine lists, it will be playable, and will win games if you play well.

Will have major issues with mobility, tho, so some Assault Marines, Bikes, or Speeders might be in order. Mobility has always been a useful thing to have, but in 5e, it's critical. I've lost/tied a handfull of games when my Nidzilla list just couldn't get across the board to the other side's objectives. I'd have nearly wiped the enemy out, but they had something fast to contest my side, and I just couldn't get to their side in 6 turns.

Assault marines are tasty. Don't leave them out of your list.

I Know i want these things in my list, 2X marine squads, meltagun, lascannon.
(Got the option for combat squads)

10 Termies 2x Cyclone missile launcher.
(Again option for combat squads)

And 5 Scouts, camo cloaks, snipers, ML.

I was thinking of adding dreads and would be good army , not sure which HQ yet.


EDIT: This is my first marine army, so i dont wanna go crazy getting 3 dreads or lots of scouts, because ils use this stuff later on to make more list.

Xav wrote:I forgot to add i dont consider Rhino's vehicles,

WTF?

Well no one gonna use rhinos to attack there transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well no one gonna use rhinos to attack, there transports.

Mate..

5 x 10 Man Tac squads, with1 LC in Each.

2 x 10 Man Dev Squads, 4 x ML in Each.

1 x Chapter Master, Standing at the Back(Orbital Bombardment )

1485 points. 71 Marines. Has worked very well for me on a few occasions.

With the last 15 points, you could scatter 3 x Melta Guns amongst the 5 Tac Squads.

I won three RTTs in a row with an infantry SM army:
Librarian, 10 Termies, 10 Assault Termies, 2 Tacticals, 1 Scout; with some variants.
I found that this footslogging army worked pretty well even without transports.

Wuestenfux, my 1500 point list, i just worked out is 10 terminators, 2 tac, 1 10 man scout squad, with Lysander, or Libarian, but with two dreads with assault cannons.

My plan is for the terminators, to move up the board, raining stormbolters and CML, down on the enemy, while the tacs ever split up in to combat squads, with the melta combat squads, flanking the termies and the lascannon sitting tight, or move them up, with the rest of the army.

The souts, sit on an objective and generaly cause a nuisance, of themselves, pining squads, or bring down tanks, the cover save + camo cloaks, should protect them.

The dreads bring up the rear providing fire support.

What you think?

About the HQ If you keep it behind you could use a chapter Master with the orbital Bombardment

I o always think about taking some lascannons in your tactical squads- just 10 points...

Hmm. I didn't think about termies. They are a perfectly fine gunline unit. Tough, shooty, and murdereoursly strong in assault with those pfs.

The orbital bombardment is nice, but it is only one-use per game. To me, that is not worth the 25 points you pay for a chapter master over a regular captain.

Lascannons in tactical squads are a waste. Even if you combat squad them, your tactical squad can only shoot at a maximum of two targets. That is at least 3 bolter rounds being wasted on an armored target for whatever the combat squad with the lascannon is shooting at. It is more expensive, but more tactically sound, to group all the heavy weapons of similar types into devastator squads. Additionally, the lascannon cannot shoot the same turn it moved, further reducing the effectiveness of the other 4 dudes stuck with him.

How about just go ahead and ignore the basic marines at all and just go for scouts. You lose on Ballistic skill but it does give you more points to work with.


SPace Marine Librarian w/ STormshield; Vortex; Nullzone
Space Marine Librarian w/ Term ARmour Avenger, Vortex.
Troops
10 man Terminator Squad w/ TH and SS 400


Scout squad w/ combimelta, h. bolter ; shotguns155

Scout squad w/ combimelta, h.bolter ; shotguns 155

I think for a gunline SM army, I'd do something like this:

Sicarious
Command Squad x 5 - Apothecary, Plasmagun x 4

1-2 of each type of these squads
Tactical x 10 Lascannon, Meltagun, Powerfist
Tactical x 10 Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun, Combi-Plasma

1 each of
Devastator x 10 Missle Launcher x 4
Devastator x 10 Heavy Bolter x 4

And 1 Thunderfire Cannon, since it counts as Artillery, not a vehicle, and you get a Techmarine with Bolster Defenses for the price.

This makes full use of the cheaper LC/PC in the Tac squad, and gets a high volume of fire out of the mid-class heavy weapons in the two Dev squads for a decent price.

Sicarious and his squad would be only moderate at CC, so you might just take TH/SS Terminators x 10 (to be split if needed) to bulwark any failing spots in the line. If you did that, a Chaplain is a natural choice, or perhaps a Librarian to Gate of Infinity them around.