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It would seem to me that with the carbine's shorter range, if you're pulling a gunline you'd want to go with all rifles so you dont have any units not taking shots when you're at full range. I have no battlefield experience though as I'm new to 40k. How effective is pinning? Is it something I'd want a group of carbines for, or would I be better off pulling full rifles so that every FW in the squad may be effective at full range? The one squad I thought I might make an exception for is my ethereal's honor guard. It is the only full FW unit I took @ 10FW's a shas'ui and the ethereal so they may still transport. I was thinking about having 3 of this squad carry carbines as a last ditch pinning effort should it come to that. Long story short, is it better to keep 'purity' in your FW squads? It seems inefficient to carry too many carbines in a rifle squad, but I am but a lowly Shas'la awaiting my first battle so I'm hoping some more seasoned players might be able to lend their insight.

Pinning isn't very effective. Very few armies have a low enough leadership to be reliably pinned, and the most common two armies that can (Orks, IG) have such poor armour saves that you'd probably just be better off wiping them out with the Pulse Rifles.

I wouldn't recommend mixing Rifles with Carbines.

While I wouldn't recommend mixing Rifles and carbines, pinning has become a lot more effective with the new wording.

This isn't that pinning for every failed save baloney again, is it?

Even if that is what you're talking about, i think the pulse carbine entry's definition of how pinning affects the unit would overrule BRB.

"any unit suffering at least one wound from pulse carbine must test for pinning"

I do mix pulse and carbine in certain situations, but not evenly. 3:1 ratio is the highest I'll ever go of pulse to carbines, leaving 4 carbines in a squad of 12.

Pinning works best in conjunction with a lot of markerlight support, and I'd wager that more than half of Tau players around here would fail at a pinning army anyway because they mix subpar assault elements into their army (Kroot) instead of using pure firepower, which ends up absorbing too many points that you'd need to make a markerlight heavy Tau army really shine.

Ridcully wrote:This isn't that pinning for every failed save baloney again, is it?

Sure it is.

Even if that is what you're talking about, i think the pulse carbine entry's definition of how pinning affects the unit would overrule BRB.

"any unit suffering at least one wound from pulse carbine must test for pinning"

And that might indeed change how Pinning works in regards to Pulse carbines. I wasn't aware that the pinning effect was mentioned in such a way in the entry.

I occasionally will run my squads of 12 with 3 carbines to be WYSIWYG. I have found however that rifles are better if your not going mech.

Pinning is not really that effective anymore. Most armies have high ld so your not pinning them without markerlight help. Even then your markerlights are better served to strip off cover or raise your own BS.

Better to run half and half Carbines if you're running mechanized Tau, as that extra 6" means the difference between a Fish of Fury, and getting piled on by survivors in the next turn. Use the Carbines to pin squads for later, and concentrate your Rifles on the squads you're busy demolishing.

I think that its total wounds over an entire unit of any pinning weapons. But reguardless - I think pinning is DEFINETLY worth it, in a tau army. It increases your options; although I do agree with lower ratios of 3:1 in terms of Rifle:Carbines.

Also, target locked rail rifles from pathfinder teams; seperate your shooting & put multiple Markerlights on multiple different squads, then shoot each shot with rail-rifle each; lowering thier leadership (and increasing the BS to 4/5). Hitting on 2's, wounding most things on 2's with no armor save (vs an MEQ) is pretty handy.

Or, ofcourse, those fishes & hammer/Ion heads with carbine gundrones.

Yup, 2 or 3 carbines in a squad seems worthwhile insurance in an all-comers army - against some opponents they'll be very useful, against others they'll be useless so will simply be your meatshields for the rest of the unit, overall still worth the slight loss of dakka in my opinion

The Carbines won't be useless. Their 18" range is very useful for keeping your Fire Warriors moving and able to engage the enemy without being assaulted. You should never use Fire Warriors as meat-shields. Their firepower is wasted that way. That's what Kroot are for.

sniper drones (if you're going to take them) all have rail rifles which are 36" str 6 ap 3 heavy 1 pinning weapons...

it works pretty well. I used it in one of my 'ard boyz matches to pin 2 big firewarrior squads in place until they could be dealth with... they were about to contest an objective in cover so I loaded them down with markerlights (I have 19 markerlights in my army) and basically autopinned them for a couple of turns while I dealth with the rest of his army.

I wouldn't go basing my army around pinning but it is nice every once in a while to see a crisis team or marine squad get pinned.