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When a farseer uses Eldritch Storm...does the Large Blast template still scatter or not? Had a really big argument about this which had to be resolved with a roll off...[colo

Yes it scatters.

BGB. PG. 50
Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a weapon

BGB pg30

When firing a Blast weapon the user does not roll to hit...

Thanks a lot...although i didn't want it too...:(

yea I know it sucks, but why are you taking eldrich storm anyway?

Give him doom and stick him in a WS, you don't need LoS to use doom, and you get to measure from the vehicle hull for the range.

Didn't have enough points for a WS...it was only about 700 points and i ended up with a really bad combination...i did win one out of two though so was happy...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He did have doom though. It was useful taking out his crisis suits...

I still play that it doesn't scatter. that isthe way it has always been played in Europe and the US since the codex came out.

Besides I never listen to the RAW arguments on Dakka as far as I'm concerned by RAW it can be perceived either way the wording is just not clear enough.

Until a FAQ comes out that specifically says it scatters I will not play it that way. Have not run into any arguments and if did I'd simply roll off 4+ and stick with whatever happens. I hardly use it anyway.

KK thanks...i'll ask in GW...they'll know the truth...either way.

Lynx0193 wrote:KK thanks...i'll ask in GW...they'll know the truth...either way.

Just remember, that most GW employees are just players like you that happened to respond to a job posting. GW doesn't give them brain implants with all of the right answers to rules debates when they get hired.

Deffgob wrote:

Lynx0193 wrote:KK thanks...i'll ask in GW...they'll know the truth...either way.

Just remember, that most GW employees are just players like you that happened to respond to a job posting. GW doesn't give them brain implants with all of the right answers to rules debates when they get hired.

No, they gave them all to me.

But they play a lot more than the average person and therefore are gonna remember more...

Lynx0193 wrote:KK thanks...i'll ask in GW...they'll know the truth...either way.

Ahhh, to be young and impressionable again.

Lynx0193 wrote:But they play a lot more than the average person and therefore are gonna remember more...

Not always. I know that only one of my Local Games Workshop workers is a power gamer who knows the rules of by heart. The others are all more inclined to reccomend stuff that looks cool or has funny rules rather than stuff that is good. heck one worker said that he considered checkering to be cheating and wouldnt play a guy who did it.

combo wrote:

Lynx0193 wrote:But they play a lot more than the average person and therefore are gonna remember more...

Not always. I know that only one of my Local Games Workshop workers is a power gamer who knows the rules of by heart. The others are all more inclined to reccomend stuff that looks cool or has funny rules rather than stuff that is good. heck one worker said that he considered checkering to be cheating and wouldnt play a guy who did it.

Your right Its not cheating, it just looks the same ... its easily countered Template weapons and blast weapons that ignore cover deal nicely. Hell even if you can get some elevation on the units you can shoot them with out them getting cover saves since you won't be shooting through the units.

And once one units gone the other units just standing out in the open with their d* swing in the wind

I know. A little bit of forsight and you can counter checking, but some people refuse to adapt and will consider anything that challanges their conception of the game cheating.

Unfortunately the majority of players and Redshirts appear to be in this catagory. They erect their own unofficial rules and "fair plays" in their heads and get annoyed when they play someone who just sticks to the official rules.

I mean some guy is still pissed at me for tank shocking him of an objective last turn, he considered it a "cheesey" tactic and that he "deserved" a win rather than the draw he ended up with.

combo wrote:I know. A little bit of forsight and you can counter checking, but some people refuse to adapt and will consider anything that challanges their conception of the game cheating.

Unfortunately the majority of players and Redshirts appear to be in this catagory. They erect their own unofficial rules and "fair plays" in their heads and get annoyed when they play someone who just sticks to the official rules.

I mean some guy is still pissed at me for tank shocking him of an objective last turn, he considered it a "cheesey" tactic and that he "deserved" a win rather than the draw he ended up with.

Ha had some one similar tell me that Eldar shouldn't be able to field wraith guard as troop as it was unfair as they are too tough. I couldn't find any thing to say to this, he knew how many points the each cost and that they only have a 12" range (ok +6" move) but he still felt it was unfair.

Clthomps wrote:yea I know it sucks, but why are you taking eldrich storm anyway?

Eldritch Storm is actually very useful in a apocalypse game. the farseer is not a very big target, so he won't get fired at a lot. in most Apocalypse games I play, the opponent has a massive tank line. Use Eldritch Storm to flip tanks around and shoot at their vulnerable rear armor.

However, Eltritch storm becomes a slaughterer of infantry when there is a Waygate near the farseer. you can have the strength of the Storm reach S9!

Gwar! wrote:

Deffgob wrote:

Lynx0193 wrote:KK thanks...i'll ask in GW...they'll know the truth...either way.

Just remember, that most GW employees are just players like you that happened to respond to a job posting. GW doesn't give them brain implants with all of the right answers to rules debates when they get hired.

No, they gave them all to me.

Sorry, was reffering to my local. All the guys there are very hardened veterens...really awesome guys.

Lynx0193 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Deffgob wrote:

Lynx0193 wrote:KK thanks...i'll ask in GW...they'll know the truth...either way.

Just remember, that most GW employees are just players like you that happened to respond to a job posting. GW doesn't give them brain implants with all of the right answers to rules debates when they get hired.

No, they gave them all to me.

Sorry, was reffering to my local. All the guys there are very hardened veterens...really awesome guys.

I know a lot of "hardened veterans" who don't know the rules for crap... they just think they do.

Well pff...i've played against them...

Clthomps wrote:Yes it scatters.

BGB. PG. 50
Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a weapon

BGB pg30

When firing a Blast weapon the user does not roll to hit...

I disagree, codexs take presidents over base rules!

Pg28 Eldar Codex: This psychic power is used in the shooting phase instead of firing a weapon. The Eldar player places the large blast marker centered on an enemy model within 18". Vehicles touched by the template suffer a hit with...

In an effort to not write all of the rules down I'll stop there, but to me it's pretty clear it does not mention having to roll or check for scatter. And while it is an effect that happens in the shooting phase, it is not firing a weapon -- and there for does not have to follow all the base rules that weapons do.

This is how my play group plays it and it's how it was played in 4th and I really don't believe it should be changed!

-Jara

Jaradakar wrote:

Clthomps wrote:Yes it scatters.

BGB. PG. 50
Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a weapon

BGB pg30
When firing a Blast weapon the user does not roll to hit...

I disagree, codexs take presidents over base rules!

Pg28 Eldar Codex: This psychic power is used in the shooting phase instead of firing a weapon. The Eldar player places the large blast marker centered on an enemy model within 18". Vehicles touched by the template suffer a hit with...

In an effort to not write all of the rules down I'll stop there, but to me it's pretty clear it does not mention having to roll or check for scatter. And while it is an effect that happens in the shooting phase, it is not firing a weapon -- and there for does not have to follow all the base rules that weapons do.

This is how my play group plays it and it's how it was played in 4th and I really don't believe it should be changed!

-Jara

In 4th blast weapons ether hit or missed ... i bet your one of the people that for got to roll to hit aren't you?

In 5th weapons with the blast rule scatter. None of the rules in codex state that it works differently and in fact all of the rules can be met while following the rules for blast weapons.

I think Tri is right. Its a Large Blast, all large blasts scatter. The codex does not say NOT to scatter, so....scatter.


With THAT in mind, my local group agrees with me that it does not make sense that a Psyker power can scatter like that (unless specifically stated), so we don't.

RAW, it scatters. Its a psycic power used in the shooting phase, which means its like using a weapon. If you use a psycic shooting power, you can't shoot another weapon (the power was your shot). Why wouldnt the scatter apply to this as well?

I personally use ES as a drive by for bunched up vehicles. Eldar codex specifically states that the powers do not require LOS, and the Rulebook Outlines how Psychic Shooting attacks that don't require LOS are handled.

The sitatuion is rare but it can hit a pile of stuff.

Clthomps wrote:Yes it scatters.

BGB. PG. 50
Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a weapon

BGB pg30
When firing a Blast weapon the user does not roll to hit...

Eldritch storm itself describes how it scatters.

cKerensky wrote:The codex does not say NOT to scatter, so....scatter.

Yes it scatters, you roll the dice then do what eldritch storm tells you to do with the scatter roll.

Lets see what happens when we do both the specific Eldar rules and BGB's blast rules together ... my god the blast rules carry out all the specific eldar rules. Since there's nothing in those spesific rules tell us ether not to use the blast rules or not to scatter we carry out all the blast rules including scatter.

The way we've always played it is...

1 Cast ES
2 Place large blast
3 All vehicles under instantly take the 2D6+3 (as per ES description)
4 Roll scatter die
5 Point vehicles hit in the direction of the scatter die, if still hit player chooses direction
6 Resolve s3 hits under the template scatter location.

" 2 The Eldar player places the large blast marker centered on an enemy model within 18". 3 Vehicles touched by the template suffer a hit with 2D6+3 AP and 5 are spun around to face in a direction determined 4 by the scatter dice - 5 if a hit is rolled the Eldar player may choose it's facing."

6 18" S:3 AP- Pinning Large Blast

Thanks to you all...should be helpful...

combo wrote:I know. A little bit of forsight and you can counter checking, but some people refuse to adapt and will consider anything that challanges their conception of the game cheating.

You're right. Anybody who checkers against me I just refer them to p11 which states that units may only be moved one at a time and that you may not move through a gap between friendly models that is smaller than your base size. Usually this makes it so difficult that they refrain from continuing in this perfectly legal tactic. Everybody wins!

What is checkering, Ive got know idea what the hell it is and can someone possibly give a diagram pls.

Checkering 2 or more units are placed in a checka board pattern so they give each other a cover save.

versions (Unit A = X ; Unit B = O)


X O X O X O
O X O X O X

X X X O O O
O O O X X X

O O O O O X X X X X
O X X X X O O O O X
O X X X X O O O O X
O X X X X O O O O X
O O O O O X X X X X

As you can see its basically any pattern that hides at least 50% of the unit behind another unit.