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So...'Ard Boyz is over.

I ran a mechanized Ork list, and took along a heavy support choice of 3 killa kans, with 3 Grotzookas. My *intent* was that the killa-kans would deal with the potential for deep-striking units and outflanking units. There was a game where a unit of terminators deep-struck next to my mechanized wall, and rather than having to stop and deal with them, my mechanized list continued on, and my killa-kans ate the terminators with their dreadnought weapons.

They didn't do much for me in 'Ard Boyz though; outflanking genestealers got dealt with by kombi-skorcha and burna templates, and there was no deep striking madness. I would have liked to use them against enemy vehicles, but didn't have a chance to get close enough because the rest of my army outpaced them.


Ultimately, my kans pretty much moved 6", then ran D6" every turn, and potentially got a late game assault (where they didn't die). I'm wondering if I should take them out and add a 4th battlewagon (I have two heavies and two dedicated transports).

What do you think folks? Battlewagons can move 12-13" per turn, and trukks can move 12-13" or 18-19" flat out, and everything leaves kans in the dust. Do you think having them as an answer for a few possibilities as I outlined is worthwhile? Or do they not belong? I'm not sure what to do.

Kans have the potential to do things (locking things in close-combat & making use of the awesome walker CC rules) & while they might not have actually accomplished anything specifically during the turns of any games, they may have had a more subtle influence.

I.e "Oh damn, thise kans are gonna eat my termies, better not deep-strike them" or "Ah, those kans; best avoid those DCCW's" or "I was gonna infiltrate but those blast templates and the possibility for a charge means I'll hold my pathfinders back"... etc etc etc.

What can you fill that battlewagon with, curiously?

Do those kans soak up much fire or conversely do they actually focous fire onto the heavier more threatening trukks & BW's leaving them unmolested?

I just started using them again and it seems to me that the killer kans with the grotzookas are best used as short to medium range fire support against softer troops. I find putting them close to my foot sloggen choppa boys they work very well. Usually I also put a deff dread with them a brutal combonation.

Yeah, grotzookas aren't so great against tougher targets - personally I'm keener on rokkits on Kanz, it's really annoying for your opponent to have to worry about lucky hits from the Kanz on armour and tough infantry, the Kanz can't be ignored. But that depends on your usual opponents - grotzookas would be fine against say IG troops.

Mine were target practice for my opponents. But, while they shot at them, it allowed for the real threat (Battlewagons and Orks inside) to get in and deal the damage.

I completely expect them to get pasted; afterall, they are only Grots inside.

Thanks for the responses so far; although I'm not really asking if Kans are "good" or whether certain kan weapons are better than other kan weapons....

I'm more wondering if taking kans in a fully mechanized list is nonsensical because of the differing speed that walkers move at. I'm a big one for preaching to others that whatever they do with their army list, they should go at it full-blown, and I'm trying to decide if having kans in my own list is counterintuitive to my own advice.

This is a good question Dash.

I run a similar list and some games it doesn't feel like the kans do anything. They always feel more useful when I run my army on foot as a screen for the boyz. That's a hard choice for me because I love the Ork walkers(I have 3 kans zookas 3 kans missles and 2 CCW heavy dreads), and in large list battles I don't have enough boyz to make an Ork infantry list work (probably about a little over 50 boyz total).

I was thinking about protecting my flanks with more bikes. They are quicker, and the PK on even normal fask attack biker squads should be reasonably scary to heavy armors.

If only kans and dreads could deep strike. Have the fighta bombas drop them out of the sky. That would be fun.

Yes, you are contradicting yourself. I have seen you give tons of advice, and in every case, you say, mixing walking and mounted Orks=auto loss. Then you show up with a list doing exactly that? Heck, you wrote a big back and forth with me describing how you would wreck my army because it was half and half, and I should be all mounted, or all foot or I would get waxed every time.


For your info, i went 3-0 as well, finished 2nd because we had enough people that 2 guys could go undefeated.



Clay

Heh....primarch, thus my dilemma. I definitely always advise people to not combine foot slogging and mechanized....and I figured that kans *were* mechanized. I'm going to have to see what I can do to take them out. I'd love to put in another squad of burnas, but I don't have an elite spot. ><

*EDIT* OH! And totally, CONGRATS on placing in your 'Ard Boyz!! Every ork player that advances is a win in my book! And if I recall, my advice specifically to you was to keep doing what you were doing if it was working for you...but that if you and I went head to head....I think you'd have a real challenge.

Thanks, I feel the same way, all the Greenskins that advance are good in my opinion. I don't think you should take them out honestly. I think they work in this list, if they get shot, then Mobile stuff rolls in, if they shoot all the Truks, then they will get hit by the Kans on turn 3-4 at the latest. Grotzookas are my favorite weapon in the Ork Dex.



Clay

i personaly like the battlewagons over the kans whenever i play vs kans i ignore them till they get close them wip em out w/o half trying but it really depends on what youll be putting inside the wagon

How do you ignore 9 Kans with a cover save that are going to charge you on turn 3 at the latest? Not to mention, they can always choose to stop running and start firing off Grotzookas, which is a serious pain in the butt.


Clay

Well, I had 3 kans in my list, not nine. I'm in the contemplation stage of removing the kans and adding another battlewagon.

Whats on the wagon. Whats in the wagon?

My theoretical new battlewagon?

I have 3 elites already, so all I can do is expand a boyz squad, take away their trukk, and stick them in the battlewagon.

I do wonder whether 3 kans is enough to provide a useful 'marching threat which can't be ignored' - as opposed to 9, where they can do that quite well, but 9 don't really fit a mech ork list.

So yeah, another BW might be more useful (having to kill 4 of them will be quite annoying to your opponents). But then again, a trukk is actually faster...

Dashofpepper wrote:My theoretical new battlewagon?

I have 3 elites already, so all I can do is expand a boyz squad, take away their trukk, and stick them in the battlewagon.

Okay.. I am interested; What is your list in total (If you dont mind me asking).

If you do, never mind.

Well, my list is undergoing changes. You can see my list itself that I used at 'Ard Boyz over in the battle report section. I don't want to write it all out again.