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After playing some test games, I would like to run a mobile Empire force.

The dice can go either way most of the time, but it seems the Empire Knight, taken in a 5 man unit, is very manuverable and hard hitting.

Has anyone else run with this set-up, and had decent luck? I've got units of swordsman and hand-gunners for other support, but the knights have my vote.

We've been play testing at smaller points, but I can already see even at larger games this unit should pay for itself more often than not.

Adding a Warrior Priest to one of these units or upgrading to inner-circle will make them that much better.

I've got a 500pt game coming this week and was thinking of running WP/5man Knight, another 5 man Knight, and cannon.

Any one else with experience running mobile Empire, please chime in.

Thanks!

I have a friend who runs empire. He ran 4 five man units against my DE with a decked out lord in one, and lots of guns for support. I had problems dealing with the armor saves for my black guard. He had a great game but still couldnt claim a win. Ive seen him run this list against Ogres and Lizardmen with pretty good outcomes. If you want to do it go for it.

Definitely grab a Grand Master, and some Warrior Priests for Hatred.

At 500, I would take Hand Gunners, but it's all up to you, IMHO.

Play testing tomorrow. Hopefully going to get in three games. I'm going to try WP/Knigtsx2/ISk, WP/Knightsx2/Hellblaster/ and WP/Knightsx2/Hellfire rockets.

I'm working on getting my handgunners made up. If I get them done, maybe I'll get 4 games in.

I ran an all cavalry list at a 2250 pts friendly tourney a few months ago.

I had mulitple knight units, 2 units of Outriders and a Cannon vs big monsters.

As nasty (monstruous) characters and monsters are a definate weakness for an all cavalry Empire list I tried to minimize those threats. Hence the anachronistic Cannon, but I also included the Sword of Fate and the VHS.

I ran a TGM with Laurels and Sword of Power
2 Captains (one Sword of Fate the other Rod of Command, great for setting up traps that last one)
a WP with VHS

I found that the list lacked staying power. Empire Knights have great save but are unable to put out enough hurt consistently. So that's what the characters were for. Still, a few crappy dice rolls meant that things could very easily go wrong for me.

And no, I wasn't playing like some tool. Charges were solely in the side or rear (unless this was already done by another of my units). I used bait and flee, planned my shots to whittle down critical units in advance etc. etc. Still, something only needed to go a little wrong and the army as a whole was in trouble.

I love my Empire knights but they've been put back in their proper place, support units for the meat of my army, units that have good rank bonusses or shoot.

It was a 5 game tourney and my results were:

Game:
1: Serious loss vs balanced LM army
2: Massacred by an O&G army
3: Serious victory vs Skaven (him blowing up his own Seer and Bell helped)
4: - (couldn't make it due to sick pregnant wife)
5: - (had to leave early due to said wife, was playing vs a nice and friendly VC list though and after round 2 was in deep, deep trouble)

The only upside is that I found out how good the Sword of Fate and the Rod of Command can be (used to find these items sub-par)

I played against one at a 2250pt turney with NGs and almost tabled him.

Karl Franz on horse
2 mages
Battle priest
x4 5 man units x1 was inner circle
x1 unit pistoliers
x1 unit outriders
Steam tank
Cannon

There may have been another unit of knights.

Pistoliers are essential, they are masively superior to outriders.
Problem they run into is that you don't have the hitting power of a lance, or chaos knights and don't have the ranks so never break through.


Pistoliers is where the

Good advice. I'll be at the store tonight and let you know how it plays out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, that was horrible!

Maybe it was the armies I was playing against, but one word: Fear.

I hate fear causing units with a PASSION. I'll post all of out battles from tonights group, but I think it was said before.

Unsupported Knights are a BAD thing. I did get to play my swordsman quite a bit, and besides the one game I took front/flank/rear charge (due to TK scorpion, swarms) they did rather well.

Experiment over: No more all Knight army.

Well, Fear is always a big enemy of the Empire, Psychology in general is. Knights are better at dealing with fear because of their superior Ld, but that doesn't help when you need to get of a combined charge at a unit and only one of the charging knight units passes his Fear test.

While Fear is bad I found Unbreakable to be worse when playing versus VC with my Knight army. You can win a combat but still have underperformed in terms of kills+crumble you needed to do and all of a sudden you're tarpitted.

Oh, and summoned redirecting units, happily kept my General's unit busy after he burst through his first target.

Yeah. Definitely discovered this was not my play style. Which is OK, because the Empire has a wide variety of units that I can run mixed.

What were your opinions on the list?

Too few units? Not reliable enough?

I think had I understood a little better the effects of Fear/charging/auto break for losing - I would have played a bit better. Taking the item making the unit immune to fear and able to get off the unbreakable prayer would have been better. But anytime I would try to charge with my knights either with the WP for support or the other unit for support, one of the units ALWAYS failed their fear test, and I got stuck in open ground.

As it was, I only technically "lost" my WP and 1 Knight. But I spent most of the time trying to rally one of the units each turn.

Of course, I'm only playing at 500pts atm, so it's all realitive. It is definately too few units, even at this points cost. I will try it again when we move to 1k, and probably just add a large unit of swordsman.

I'm almost certain handgunners are a must. I have yet to see a situation I would have rather have had taken Crossbow/Archers (especially since they cost the same).

As you're only playing 500 pts games I'll have to tell you that Knight units are very powerfull at this level, their save is something many opponents can't reliably crack.

But, as you've noticed, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.

On the subject of Handgunners vs X-bows. Personally I like X-bows better this edition but maybe that's also because I almost always take some Outriders in my army to give me some Armour Piercing goodness.
It's because of the first turn, X-bows can shoot if I get the first turn and start making kills (and their points back), the bigger short range is also a small bonus.
Handgunners can never hit when you get first turn. I loved that rule in 6th Ed. where Handgunners got an extra 1d6" range on their first shot, but then they were clearly the superior choice compared to X-bows as they both still cost 8 pts. X-bows at 7 pts would have made some sense back then.

I think x-bows at 7 points would make me think more about them.

Massed fire is always a good thing, but to be able to shoot in my turn and then stand/shoot if they're charged - I'll take the handgunners.

Ironically, I'm not taking handgunners to my 500pt tourney!

I'm going to use Priest/Mage with a big block of swordsman, a unit of knights, and a mortar. With our particular group, this seems the best choice for now.

Sounds like a good set-up, even the Mortar might be handy at these low point values, especially if your opponents also tend to bring a block of infantry. Trying to find another 5 pts and taking 10 Handgunners or X-bows instead might be better though.

Going Gunline this week.

2 units of handgunners, Engineer with repeating gun, 2 mortars, and a Hellblaster.

We'll see how that fairs.

I think there's something to be said for a cav. heavy Empire list, if done correctly. I've only been playing them for two months, but I've been gaming for years so hear me out.

This is for a much bigger army list, but its the only size where I run cav. heavy, and I do realize that being at this level makes for much more options and larger strategies, so knights are much easier to support.

My 2k list is one that uses two big units of knights, one with lances, the other inner circle with hammers(always S5 is awesome). I've got some Pistoliers for flanking and such, and a steam tank and cannon for hitting monster characters and literal monsters. I've also got hangunners, Swordsmen, and Greatswords, but then I'm not running a pure cav. list, just cav. heavy. I took two wizards at level 2 with Rod of Power and a dispel on the other.

I DIDN'T take KF on horse or a TGM as my lord. I took an Arc Lector on horse. Let me sing his praises.

Righteous fury in that unit of IC knights is a godsend. No more rubber hammers, these boys will hit, and hard. Keep in mind that the horses get Hatred too, so that's an extra wound or two that get tacked on. On the first turn of combat they will plow right through anyting in their path. A priest may not have the skill of a Grand Master, or even a General, but he can still take some nasty gear(i.e. Speculum). Highly important are his prayers, which can make his unit Unbreakable, and deal some serious damage with the others(excluding the heal), giving you a deathstar unit on hooves for low cost. If you know how to work it, you can get two off for at least two turns. The coolest thing about priests is that their prayers are bound spells. This means that not only do they auto-cast, but you can have as many remains-in-play as you want(100% sure on this, and 100% sure that it's awesome).

First, if you don't use the priest spells for the first two turns, your enemy will probably forget about them and focus on blocking the wizards' spells. Those wizards are generating six power dice a turn, and at level two they can use some nasty spells. With the rod of power, they can store up power dice in the second or first turn and use them the following to drain his dispel dice, and scrolls if he brought any, and then when his attention is fixed on them you can use your two prayers unpoliced. It's even easier to do it a second time, when his scrolls and other special items are gone, and he's trying to dispel the prayers you cast LAST turn. And if the enemy didn't bring a huge load of spell def. in the first place, those wizards can be dealing huge amounts of damage to anying the knights aren't busy smiting. Believe me, these go a long way towards making up for the relatively small amount of ranged units I have.

Lastly, this loadout has some SERIOUS dispel abilities. with six dispel dice base and a dispel scroll, you can see off all magic but VC or possibly HE easily, unless they sacrifice everything for power dice. Add to it that the rod of power also lets you store dispel dice, so you can have eight dice when you need them.







Good luck on your next list!

Personally, I don't think Engineers are worth their points, and thus waste a hero slot. But, let me know how it goes. I also prefer rocket batteries over hellblasters, but then again I'm passionately in love with the pie plate(in 40k I run Vostroyans w. tons of bassies).

Well, I plan on using the Arch Lector when I can get up to Lord Choices. Maybe it's just the lower point levels right now. I'm hoping for better results. I may use Huss when we move up to 1k and add the mage again.

That freaking mage just killed me last game. I had a great spell that could have killed his vampire last time, but just could not get it off.

timff8 wrote:The coolest thing about priests is that their prayers are bound spells. This means that not only do they auto-cast, but you can have as many remains-in-play as you want(100% sure on this, and 100% sure that it's awesome).

I'm afraid I have to tell you that you are also 100 percent wrong.

I'm afraid I have to tell you that you are also 100 percent wrong.

Very true indeed. He did however get the auto-cast part right. (though the opponent gets the chance to dispel of course)

Also magic heavy lizardmen army with a slann all kitted up and a skink priest as support will laugh at your misealy dispell dice. I have heard boasts at like 13 or 14 power dice.

Dark elves can easily do 20-25 power dice every turn.

Doesn't really matter when he's playing Empire though.

So? Moar Dispel Scrolls is the obvious answer.

SHort term yes, but I hate relying on anything that is a one shot deal, like a scroll, maybe a wizard or 2 low lvl, you can make some annoying little combos not go over on points and still get more dice.

Still, I'd rather have something like a scroll where I'm not taking any chances than something like DD where it's all up in the air...

Take all the dice you want. I hoping for double ones

Moving to 1k this week. Basically going even keel. I've got 2 units of knights, handgunners, swordsman, and mortars.

Overall, It's been a pretty good list. But we haven't gotten to Lord choices yet.

Sorry to borrow the thread: will only take a second-

@ Lord SOlar Plexus:
I am NOT 100% wrong. Observe:
A wizard can only have one remains-in-play spell active at once, right? Bound spells are spells created by an item that casts the spell of its own accord. However, bound spells do not count as one of the wizard's spells, say, if they have an item that casts a bound spell, they can still use that item for its spell even while maintaining a remains-in-play spell themselves. Similarly, items that create bound remains-in-play spells do not count as the wizard's spell, so they can cast while the item maintains the spell.

Warrior Priests are NOT wizards. They have NO spell level, and cast NONE of their spells. They are all bound spells, as though they were cast by an item. In this case they are being cast by Sigmar, his will, or somesuch thing. The rule book clearly states that a wizard may only have one remains-in-play spell active at once, but it says NOTHING about multiple bound remains-in-play spells. Priests' players behave EXACTLY as if they were carrying multiple items that created bound remains-in-play spells.

Again, priests are NOT WIZARDS, and they are NOT limited by the same rules that apply to wizards. They behave as though they are carrying an enourmous sack of bound, remains-in-play spell-casting items(i.e. their prayer books). They behave like no other "wizard-like" character in the game, which is why this seems so confusing.

Thank you.

Note: LordSolarPlexus has quoted the FAQ's, which is of course fine. I don't like to believe the FAQ's because 1. they close loopholes that clever people notice (e.g. here me) and 2. the preface to the FAQ's says that they are 'soft' rules as opposed to 'hard' rules, and that you don't have to obey them if you don't want to. They are just one person's interpretation of the unspoken parts of the rules. I choose not to obey this particular opinion, and I have game-legal rights to. If, however, an errata was released saying a priest can't maintain two prayers at once (there has not), I would have to concede.

Extra tip against fear-causing units: Causing fear yourself helps too, I think the banner of Ulric/Knights of the White Wolf does that. KoWW only though.

That banner actually doesn't help, it's all in the wording. The unit only starts to cause Fear (and thus becomes immune to Fear) after they have had to make their Fear check for charging a Fear causing unit. (and it does nothing when you're being charged)

The item is only good for a large knight unit and then going for Outnumbering while Fear causing. Which is so situational you'll almost never see it in any Empire army.

Ah, so that's different now? That banner only works when succesfully charging? weird (and stupid)... It's not like you can only see that horrific deamonblood aura when you get charged, it's flying above their heads in plain sight!

It has never been ideal for cavalry to take the Dread Banner or it's later versions, but it used to just make the unit cause fear rather than just cause fear IF...