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GW has showed, through their lack of almost any comment on the grey knights, sisters of battle, and inquisitorial troops, that they are neglecting one of the most fluffly and flavorful armies they sell.
I suggest they melt Codex: DH and Codex: WH into one codex that includes the sisters of battle, the grey knights, some form of Ordo Xenos representation, and inquisitors and stormtroopers.

My idea would be to include 3 types of HQs. The inquisitor, the Grey knights gransmaster, and the Canonness. Each one would allow their respective choices to be taken.
There would be a universal armory and whatnot, including imperial relics and weapons and whatnot.
So here are some preliminary rules for the inquisitor.

Inquisitor Lord
Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv-

May be given equipment from the armory

Must be accompanied by an inquisitorial retinue of:
3-10 Acolytes for 6 points a piece. (see below)
5-10 Allied Space Marines (bought from Codex: Space Marines)
10 Inducted Imperial Guardsmen (Bought from Codex Imperial Guard for 50 points + upgrades)

Acolyte:
WS:4 BS:4 S3 T3 W2 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv4+

Weapons: Laspistol.

Options: Must take 1 option from the following list:
Lasgun - 1
CCW - 1
Power Weapon - 10
Power Fist - 20
Plasma Gun - 10
Meltagun - 15
Flamer - 5

May be mounted in a Rhino, Chimera, or Land Raider at the cost listed in the codex.

Additions, Comments, Insults?

I heard a rumor that a meld of the three was going to be the next Inquisition book.

*gathers thoughts so as to provide more commentary on above post*

Inquisition should not be a single codex, IMO. The three orders are far too different. Why, for instance, would Grey Knights fight alongside SoB? The two factions loathe each other because the Grey Knights are all psykers, and SoB are racist to psykers. Poor blokes.

Canonness Rory wrote:

Options: Must take 1 option from the following list:
Lasgun - 1
CCW - 1
Power Weapon - 10
Power Fist - 20
Plasma Gun - 10
Meltagun - 15
Flamer - 5

Are these for the Acolytes, the Inquisitor, or both? Will there be specialized retinue like Mystics?

Maybe for Elites there can be Interrogators those have their own sort of retinue. Or how about one called Rogue Trader; only usable with Ordos Xenos.

I'd have no problem with it being in one book, but not mixing the forces together.

Like Cheese said, Grey Knights and Sisters are NOT friends. They work for the same guy, but the Sisters have issues with the Knights. I don't think the Knights care one way or another.

Mattlov wrote:I'd have no problem with it being in one book, but not mixing the forces together.

Like Cheese said, Grey Knights and Sisters are NOT friends. They work for the same guy, but the Sisters have issues with the Knights. I don't think the Knights care one way or another.

That can be solved by simply having an comment in the entry for the GK HQ and the Sisters HQ that says something along the lines of "you can't take both, but you can take one and an inquisitor"

djphranq wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

Options: Must take 1 option from the following list:
Lasgun - 1
CCW - 1
Power Weapon - 10
Power Fist - 20
Plasma Gun - 10
Meltagun - 15
Flamer - 5

Are these for the Acolytes, the Inquisitor, or both? Will there be specialized retinue like Mystics?

Maybe for Elites there can be Interrogators those have their own sort of retinue. Or how about one called Rogue Trader; only usable with Ordos Xenos.

Like I said, there would probably be a unified armory, so those things I listed would probably be in that, with a bunch of other stuff too, so the inquisitor and his acolytes could take stuff from a unified list that would probably include all the above plus bolt pistols and power/flak/carapace armor, etc. etc. etc.

As far as mystics and whatnot go, maybe an upgrade for an acolyte to be a mystic or a chirugeon etc. ?

Oh, and a rogue trader would be awesome.

There are instances of the Sisters and GK's fighting side by side. There's even a picture in the WH Codex showing that.

It's not a matter of being 'friends', it's a matter of being the Chamber Militants of two Inquisitorial Ordos, Ordos that often work side-by-side. If anything the three (Xenos included) should be able to be mixed.

Ordos core concepts:

Daemonhunters - Focuses on the arcane, and the psychic. Destroying Daemons through the application of physical and psychic force.
Witch Hunters - Focuses on faith and flame. Destroying Heretics through the application of devotion and lots of fire.
Alien Hunters - Focuses on technology and firepower. Destroying Aliens through the application of cutting-edge Imperial technology and exploiting the weaknesses of the Alien.

Four HQs:
Inquisitor Lord
Grey Knight Grand Master
Sisters of Battle Canoness
Deathwatch Captain

Inquisitor can be 'marked' as belonging to an Ordo, opening up the Troops from that Chamber Militant.

The Grand Master/Canoness/Captain opens up all choices from their Chamber Militant.

This would allow you to, say, take an Inquisitor and a GK Grand Master, make it a Xenos Inquisitor and bring DW and GKs to the table, and every other combination thereof.

The other choices within the Codex remain roughly the same, but with the inclusion of Inquisitorial Sentinels, Inquisitorial vehicles being BS4 (+5 points to compensate), and with the addition of a few different types of a few new Deathwatch units ('Centurion' Terminator Squads, 'Annihilus' Devastator Squads, etc.).

Then there's the radical side of things, with Alpha Level Psykers (WH), Daemonhosts (DH) and Xenos Advisors (AH) providing access to 'heretical' formations such as Psychic Thralls and Mutants (WH), members of the Exorcist Chapter (DH), and some of the more independent Xenos units such as Eldar Scouts, Kroot, Scorpions, Blood Axe Kommandos

I like this idea, but as the other's have said, it's probably best to limit GK + SOB interaction. maybe include options for deathwatch?

I'd love to see a combined Codex, and I don't see a problem with allowing DH/WH/XH in the same army - after all, a common cause might force them to fight together (if Eldar and Imperials can do it, I'm sure SoB and GK can), although perhaps only for a brief period.

Anyway, fluffnuts wouldn't do it, just like an IG Catachan fluffnut might not want Baneblades in his army, legal or not.


In any case, I think the Ordo Xenos deserves some love!
Partially because I'd love to field Imperials with Alien mercenaries/pets.

I hope they do combine them. I'm hoping for this:

Codex: Inquisition

Ordos Malleus: Grey Knights/Deamon Hunters

Ordos Hereticus: Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters

Ordos Xenos: Black Templars/ Alien Hunters

Three seperate rule books in one that have special rules for working together and fighting one another(This would make for great stories and interesting battle scenarios). The Inquisitors would still be able to bring in IG or SM allies.


As a side note: I was very happy to hear about the SW finally getting an update but wish they would combine the Werewolves (SW), Vampires(BA), and Frankenstiens(Insert Non codex SM chapter here) into a single book. They would still be three full codices just now in one release.

Doing this would allow room in thier release schedule for a LatD/Traitor Legions Codex and maybe an Eldar Exodites and Outcasts Codex.

Just my wishlist, Later

focusedfire wrote:Ordos Xenos: Black Templars/ Alien Hunters

Black... Templars... ???

I don't think any radical changes are needed or even wanted. A 3-in-1 book is fine, but rebalance points (rhinos, chimeras, etc.) fix continuity (inducted guard, possibly an organic in-codex choice to last beyond the 6th ed guard dex and whatnot)

But beyond that, I'd say leave the rest alone!

Grey Knights need a small points decrease and transport options, and inquisitorial stormtoopers need updating, either to IG stormtroopers or IG vets.

Sorry, Rory, but I don't think anyone would go for ap3 lasguns and carapace for 16 pts when they could have rending bolters and flamers in power armor for 11.

8 points as-is, or veterans

Much better to turn INQST into Vets than copy the Stormtrooper option. They are terrible.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

focusedfire wrote:Ordos Xenos: Black Templars/ Alien Hunters

Black... Templars... ???

OK Ordos Xenos: Death Watch&Black Templars/Alien Hunters.

This comes from having played against Templars a bunch and I think that if the Death Watch was some how tied to them it would be a good fit. When you look at the BT Vows and other abilities it is like they are a mini-inquisition with the skill sets needed to hunt any type of alien. I don't see how Death Watch can be distinctive enough as xenos fighters when they would end up being so similar to the Templars. Was thinking better both combined and prosper as opposed to seperate and trying to fill the same niche.

What do you think?

Gotta go,
Later

They're not at all like Templars. Templars exeplify the crazy 'CHEEEEAAAAARRRRGEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!" mentality of 40K - they chain their weapons to themselves and run into combat screaming the Emperor's name and hoping that faith alone will keep them protected. The Templars also attack anyone, not just aliens, and are as much about destroying heretics as they are xenos. They are the archetype for 'Crusading Marines', not a Chamber Militant.

The Deathwatch are small groups of fighters from many chapters making use of high-level technology to hunt down and stop alien threats and only alien threats. They're not similar at all.

H.B.M.C., this may be a good addition to the 40k revisited line, no?

Heh. I actually thought quite a bit about how I'd do a combined Inquisitorial army, with both radical and puritan Chambers Militant (so Daemonhunters would have Grey Knights and Exorcists, Alien Hunters would have Deathwatch & Xenos units - all depending on how radical or pure your commander was). I put it on hold for a while though as I needed to get our Guard Codex done.

And hit a wall.

I kept writing a Guard Codex based around the types of armies that I took, rather than a Codex that allows for lots of options. So after struggling through a few different styles I eventually came up with a far bigger idea that I liked more:

Codex: Imperium

The combined Inquisitorial idea scales quite well - with your main HQ determining what your force is and your 2nd HQ either being more of the same, or giving you basic access to other types of units.

For example, say I have a Hereticus Inquisitor Lord, so I can take Hereticus Inquisitorial Units, and then take a Canoness as my second HQ so get basic SoB support. Or as another example say I have a Grey Knight Grand Master as my primary HQ and take a Deathwatch Captain as my secondary HQ. I've got access to all the GK units, plus a base level of Deathwatch squads (so DW Kill Teams as troops, a DW Command Squad for the Captain, etc.). So I decided to take that idea and apply it across the whole spectrum of the Imperium except for Marines, who I'd keep separate.

So, in this new idea, I could take a Company Command Tank as my main HQ, so I'd be playing Armoured Company, but then take a Daemonhunters Inquisitor as my secondary HQ, giving me access to basic levels of Daemonhunter units (Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Inquisitorial Sentinels, etc.). I could then take that a step further and make the Daemonhunter a radical, giving me access to Daemonhosts. Or flip that, taking the Inquisitor as my primary HQ, making him a Radical, getting every Radical Daemonhunter unit, and then a Company Command Tank as my second HQ, giving me a few Armoured Company Troops Choices.

And then this would cover Infantry, MechInf, Drop Troop/Air Cav, Armoured Company, 'Specialist' Troops (Jungle Fighters, Cityfighters, etc.), Ecclesiarchical formations, Inquisitors of all three branches, the Chambers Militant and so on - with everything being based upon the HQ choices. So if you really want to bring some Electro-Priests and some Robot Manifolds, then take an Adeptus Mechanicus Magos as your HQ. If you only want some Skitarii in your force, but mostly want to be based around Sisters of Battle, take a Magos as your second HQ, and take a Canoness as your main HQ, giving you access to Seraphim, Exorcists, Repentia etc.

The result of all this is that there are heaps and heaps and heaps and heaps of unit types, but they have to be 'unlocked' via the HQ choices.

And that's where I've got to. I've been sidetracked by other things recently, not least of which was taking the Daemons Codex, stripping out what I liked from it, and combining it with our Chaos Codex (still ongoing - need to write up the Greater Daemons and get all the Daemonic Wargear sorted), but it's the next big project once I've finished this pass on the Chaos Codex.

That is truely epic! Why did you and your mates buy 100k points each of models when you could have bought up a majority share of the GW stock?!

I 'spose if we'd done that, we could have models for free... hmm...

I wouldn't want to control GW anyway. Having people like me complaining about me endlessly wouldn't be any fun.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're not at all like Templars. Templars exeplify the crazy 'CHEEEEAAAAARRRRGEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!" mentality of 40K - they chain their weapons to themselves and run into combat screaming the Emperor's name and hoping that faith alone will keep them protected. The Templars also attack anyone, not just aliens, and are as much about destroying heretics as they are xenos. They are the archetype for 'Crusading Marines', not a Chamber Militant.

The Deathwatch are small groups of fighters from many chapters making use of high-level technology to hunt down and stop alien threats and only alien threats. They're not similar at all.

We will have to disagree on this, H.B.M.C.. It is the zealous nature of the Templars that make them perfect to be a Chamber Militant. I also like the idea of somewhat of a reconnect to the Medieval Templars. A group that started off protecting pilgrims and organizing crusades. But as time passed they began to learn from a foe that was scientifically superior and eventually brought that knowledge back to their original home.

It will take some fluff tweeking but I feel it would be a good fit, if done right. It would, also, make for a very interesting story arc if GW loosely followed the Medieval Templar history. We are talking about a group that was used by the Inquisition to wipe out threats from within and without. Then that same group ends up falling to to the Inqu.isition themselves due to the political machinations of the French King.

BTW, did you notice that the Deathwatch were completely absent from the 5th ed BRB. They mention the IG, SM, SoB, GK, Ad Mech, and the Titan legions but the Deathwatch were conspicuously absent. An Ordos Xenos Inquisitor gets mentioned on page 127 but aside from that nothing else. GW is already changing the story, it is just a question of how much is going to be revised. What do you think?

Have a good one,
Later

Sorry, but changing the fluff and 'GW are already doing that' doesn't work for me. The presence or lack thereof in the rulebook is meaningless.

I don't deny that Deathwatch are a minor part of 40K, but then again so are the Ordo Xenos.

The Black Templars are a Chapter, they are not a Chamber Militant. The Chamber Militant of the Ordo Xenos is the Deathwatch. This is not what I want or what I have chosen for myself, this is simply fact. If you think that the Templars are 'perfect' to be a Chamber Militant then that's great, but it is also irrelevant. They're not a Chamber Militant. The Deathwatch are. End of story.

This has been banded around the forums a number of times.

The most popular theories were broadly similar to what you had outlined - you include a number of HQ units which 'unlock' the rest of the units. Since you can only have two HQs your army never becomes stupidly diverse.

HQ units would be

Inquisitor (unlocks Stormtroopers, Daemonhosts, Assassins)
Grey Knight Hero (unlocks all Grey Knights)
Cannoness (unlocks all SoB)
Deathwatch Captain (unlocks all Deathwatch)
Cardinal (unlocks Frateris, Preachers, Arcoflagellants, Penitent Engines)

and then maybe

PDF Officer (unlocks Imperial Guard)
Arbites Marshal (unlocks Arbites)

and so on and so forth - I doubt it would be THAT diverse (I doubt we'll see Arbites or PDF) but that kinda idea...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Canonness Rory wrote:Like I said, there would probably be a unified armory,

Also, every recent Codex has had the armoury removed in favour of unit-specific options. I highly doubt there would be a unified armoury...

I'd love to see a Codex : Inquisition of some sort...

The 3 Ordos might be very different, they are also very similar and share a goal, even though they focus on different enemies.

Beside making Sister Repentias a bit tougher (feel no pain? toughness 4? 3+ save? either one of these...) and givng Celestians a CC (everything about them says they're decent CC fighters but they only get a bolter o_O ) there isn't much I would change about the Witch Hunters.

I don't know enough about Daemonhunters though so I can't comment on those.

I would love to see an Inquisition army list, with Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle listed separately and available depending which Ordo you go for.

I have to say, though... Ordo Xenos Black Templars??? Where does that come from? As mentionned above, the marines in Ordo Xenos are Deathwatch and come from all chapters, if I'm not mistaken.

If anything, Black Templars should be mostly interrested in Ordo Hereticus, as they hate psykers. They don't have anything to do with Xenos and Daemons, at least not any more than any other chapter.