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Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

I just don't understand why some people are always in a gloom-and-doom-end-of-civilisation mood. I don't see a reason to be like that. The world is starting to change for the better, thanks to great people like Al Gore showing us that we can live the lives we have now without destroying the environment. The Global Recession is ending. Many diseases that were horrifically destructive in the past can be cured now. Even cancer, one of the most terrible afflictions in existence, can be cured in a lot of cases (OK, maybe not brain cancer). The conflicts in the Middle-East are much less violent than they were a few years ago. Religions do not crusade against each other. Racial tolerance is commonplace in most of the world. Alternate energy sources are being researched and improved.

We have not even reached the pinnacle of technology. We've barely touched space. People are starting to stop and think, trying to fight back against the inevitable disappearance of oil and the dirty energy of coal. When I go out into the cleared forests, I see fields of pines and gum trees where there was once naught but dirt, ash, and dead wood. The world is improving, and we haven't even seen the start of it.

I may sound a bit too optimistic. Yes, we still have many challenges to overcome (the situation in China, for instance), but we've seen many terrible things before. We fought through two World Wars, recovered from a Depression, and built civilisation from nothing! Mankind didn't get this far by being lazy or selfish! I believe that this is only the start of a Golden Age for humanity.

Rant/attempted Inspiring Speech over. Thank you for listening.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant







Well we only have 3 years till the end of the world.
But seriously I think its the media. they dont report good stuff enough and only gloom and doom so people think that. over used i know.

-to many points to bother to count.
mattyrm wrote:i like the idea of a woman with a lobster claw for a hand touching my nuts. :-)
 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

Cheese Elemental wrote:I just don't understand why some people are always in a gloom-and-doom-end-of-civilisation mood. I don't see a reason to be like that. The world is starting to change for the better, thanks to great people like Al Gore showing us that we can live the lives we have now without destroying the environment. The Global Recession is ending. Many diseases that were horrifically destructive in the past can be cured now. Even cancer, one of the most terrible afflictions in existence, can be cured in a lot of cases (OK, maybe not brain cancer). The conflicts in the Middle-East are much less violent than they were a few years ago. Religions do not crusade against each other. Racial tolerance is commonplace in most of the world. Alternate energy sources are being researched and improved.

We have not even reached the pinnacle of technology. We've barely touched space. People are starting to stop and think, trying to fight back against the inevitable disappearance of oil and the dirty energy of coal. When I go out into the cleared forests, I see fields of pines and gum trees where there was once naught but dirt, ash, and dead wood. The world is improving, and we haven't even seen the start of it.

I may sound a bit too optimistic. Yes, we still have many challenges to overcome (the situation in China, for instance), but we've seen many terrible things before. We fought through two World Wars, recovered from a Depression, and built civilisation from nothing! Mankind didn't get this far by being lazy or selfish! I believe that this is only the start of a Golden Age for humanity.

Rant/attempted Inspiring Speech over. Thank you for listening.


The doom and gloom type isnt far off different then you while you were talking about religion 1 month ago.
Try to remember back and see the connection , and relate to it.

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Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

I can't really see how they are connected, Luna. One is a personal matter, this is something that loads of people seem to have a problem with. It's some kind of contagious depression/anarchism.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





About to eat your Avatar...

I will try not to be a bummer...

I think the main problem today is the priorities set by the worlds leading nations, and the fact that the U.N. is pretty much a joke in a lot of situations. Most if not all people involved in the renewable energy revolution are in it for the money (aside a bit of ego boosting) and the general fame. If you could be the guy that did the thing that saved us from "Global" warming, I think you would be pretty happy. The fact is "Global" warming is not backed up by real science; saying that the world is getting warmer and this is all because of human-kind is a pretty massive statement. It is true that human-kind is obviously responsible for damage to the planet, but the problem is the information we have cannot be directly linked to an actual factual global climate change. Beyond this we don't even know what is normal for the planet, and how it's life cycle works. To this day there is no way to prove how the dinosaurs died, and this could be part of the answer to what is happening to the planet today.

In terms of other big problems I see the worst is greed. There has been more goods produced in the past century than the previous 500 years before that, probably much longer. With all of these goods and money floating around, very few people actually see the direct benefits of having these things "easily" available for those who would take it. Most of the profits of the past centuries have gone directly to the already powerful upper classes, and this a particularly important issue in countries like the U.S. and China. China is an interesting issue, because it summarizes the needs of a country and the lengths it will have to go to in order to gain real global status. The U.S. is at the opposite end of the spectrum with mass amounts of debt, and little to no product to show for it. You could say that the economic stranglehold placed on the flow of goods through U.S. corporations makes up for this, but the money that they circulate tends to end up outside of the U.S. itself. So in essence the U.S. could be seen as the last days before the fall of the new Babylon.

People fail to realize exactly how much money is in the market, and how little they as an average mud-wading shmoe get to benefit from these riches. The money stays at the top as new and fancier products arrive to make your life that more comfortable. The less you have to worry about a job, the more you will spend, and the more hollow the economy will become; this really depends on what happens after the recession. If people decide to take control of the economy again, we could be on a positive track. If the larger corporations continue to gain unneeded support, while the people bear the weight of this cost, we could see a full blown depression in the next 20 years.


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut






Brisbane/Australia

Zeitgeist.

'Nuff said.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/14 09:44:09


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Made in gb
Crazy Marauder Horseman




Liverpool

I see nothing doom & gloom about the desire to return to a primitivist state of being. I secretly yearn for a time when we don't have to worry about going to work to earn money to pay taxes, so we can sit and watch TV, and get force-fed advertisements so that we can go and buy more crap that we don't actually need to survive, which forces us to go to work so we can afford this crap, and so the cycle continues.

"If our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would have to INVENT problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss."
 
   
Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

See, I think primitivism is a bad thing. What happens if you get AIDS or the Black Plague?

I think that organised government is a good thing. Sure, politics is a power game, but they keep our lives running. They give us public hospitals. They give us support when there is no other option.

If you're so eager to be a primitive being, then go ahead. You're always preaching it, so go do it. Abandon your home. Live in the wild. Hunt for food.

Then catch a disease that you can't be saved from because you've forsaken civilisation and its life-saving healthcare systems.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





About to eat your Avatar...

It is feasible to keep all the technology with a modified economy based on fair trade. Complex though it may be, impossible it is most definitely not.

I am quite sure most people do not want to live in huts, and farm, and kill little chickens for food. You don't need to do this to live a more balanced lifestyle. Recycling is one thing that I actually admire about to days economy, after all one of the richest women in China made her fortune from recycled paper (and cardboard I think).

http://www.hurun.net/detailen74,people2.aspx
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-10/20/content_713250.htm

Overall China has taken a very progressive stance to their own industrial revolution.

In the future the same techniques that have polluted the planet could be used to terraform planets and possibly even asteroids. After all we only have so many million years left on the planet, and I for one would like to "see" us move onto new parts of the universe.

Thoughts of exploration are the main reason I still have a good amount of faith left in humanity, and myself. There are just way to many options to look into, but these are linked with relatively large sums of money that only the public as a whole could finance... instead of that new batch of cruise missiles and multi-million dollar fighter jets could we make a few more research centers for the ocean, and possibly even space? If we need to have hope in something, I say the future is good as anything else.

Cheese Elemental wrote:See, I think primitivism is a bad thing. What happens if you get AIDS or the Black Plague?

I think that organised government is a good thing. Sure, politics is a power game, but they keep our lives running. They give us public hospitals. They give us support when there is no other option.

If you're so eager to be a primitive being, then go ahead. You're always preaching it, so go do it. Abandon your home. Live in the wild. Hunt for food.

Then catch a disease that you can't be saved from because you've forsaken civilisation and its life-saving healthcare systems.


Imagine a global government so interlaced with the people that it would be next to impossible for corruption. Transparency is what we need, so at the very least we can know when to get angry.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/07/14 10:14:31



 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Cheese Elemental wrote:Rant/attempted Inspiring Speech over. Thank you for listening.


If someoneone wants to appear informed and worldly despite knowing absolutely nothing, then becoming an ultra-cynic is about the quickest way there. It's why teenagers and young adults will often be very cynical, because they know exactly nothing about the world actually works.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

Wait, what? I'm not being cynical, nor do I claim to know everything. I just have moods like this sometimes after reading all these depressing articles and discussions.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

A dark man sits on the throne across the great ocean, the vermin are still thriving in the holy lands and Oasis is still alive and kicking, the signs are all there so sayeth the book of all endeth times! Anyway, feth it, 2012 will pass by like any other "evil" date on the calendar. Get on your knees and pray if you must, but I doubt anything will happen.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

I would argue with the statement that much of the profits of the past century have gone the upper classes.

The Economist in its commemorative 2000 milliennium issue, pointed out that the majority of the lower class or working class of today have colours TVs, satellite, cars, fridges and all kinds of stuff which didn't even exist 100 years ago. As they said, this is a definition of poverty which many people would not recognise.

The difference is that the rich have grown even richer, of course, and many societies including the UK and USA are as socially divided and stratified as they were back then.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Unbalanced Fanatic





Buckinghamshire, England

Cheese Elemental wrote:I just don't understand why some people are always in a gloom-and-doom-end-of-civilisation mood. I don't see a reason to be like that. The world is starting to change for the better, thanks to great people like Al Gore showing us that we can live the lives we have now without destroying the environment. The Global Recession is ending. Many diseases that were horrifically destructive in the past can be cured now. Even cancer, one of the most terrible afflictions in existence, can be cured in a lot of cases (OK, maybe not brain cancer). The conflicts in the Middle-East are much less violent than they were a few years ago. Religions do not crusade against each other. Racial tolerance is commonplace in most of the world. Alternate energy sources are being researched and improved.

We have not even reached the pinnacle of technology. We've barely touched space. People are starting to stop and think, trying to fight back against the inevitable disappearance of oil and the dirty energy of coal. When I go out into the cleared forests, I see fields of pines and gum trees where there was once naught but dirt, ash, and dead wood. The world is improving, and we haven't even seen the start of it.

I may sound a bit too optimistic. Yes, we still have many challenges to overcome (the situation in China, for instance), but we've seen many terrible things before. We fought through two World Wars, recovered from a Depression, and built civilisation from nothing! Mankind didn't get this far by being lazy or selfish! I believe that this is only the start of a Golden Age for humanity.

Rant/attempted Inspiring Speech over. Thank you for listening.


Firstly, Great People like Al Gore? Is he Jesus now? All he did was speak on climate change and people listeneed to him like he was the Messiah
Secondly, while we can cure cancer to an extent there are risks of it coming back and it's always there.
Thirdly, 'The conflicts in the Middle-East are much less violent than they were'. Britain has just had its bloodiest week or so in fighting for years. We have lost just under 200 lives fighting an invisible enemy that gets larger the longer we stay there.
Fourthly, 'Religions do not crusade against each other.' What do you think the terrorist attacks are? They are attempts by extremists in a certain Faith to rid the world of any others. That is a racial and ethnically cleansing crusade.
Fifthly, 'Alternate energy sources are being researched and improved.' Yeah but the most effective Solar Cell is currently 25% efficent and uses fossil fuels to make it. Hydrogen powered vehicles need copious amounts of energy from fossil fiuels to extract the Hydrogen, more energy than is currently required to run the car in the first place.

Yes technology will keep improving, yes we can move further out into space but as long as there are people on this Earth it's all going to go to crap.

The OC-D

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/14 10:52:24


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"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons" - Douglas MacArthur. 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





About to eat your Avatar...

Yes technology will keep improving, yes we can move further out into space but as long as there are people on this Earth it's all going to go to crap.


Whenever I hear this (even from myself) I always think of that guy in Aliens who starts to freak out. "IT'S OVER MAN... GAME OVER!"

GET A GRIP DUDE!!!


 
   
Made in gb
Raging Ravener




England, Bucks

Once we have fusion power everything will be fine and dandy, fuelwise.

死神 
   
Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

I'm no nuclear scientist, so can you clarify tht? Do you mean Cold Fusion? I don't really read into these things.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

If you're talking about Gore then DON'T forget about MANBEARPIG damn it!



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in gb
Crazy Marauder Horseman




Liverpool

Cheese Elemental wrote:See, I think primitivism is a bad thing. What happens if you get AIDS or the Black Plague?

I think that organised government is a good thing. Sure, politics is a power game, but they keep our lives running. They give us public hospitals. They give us support when there is no other option.

If you're so eager to be a primitive being, then go ahead. You're always preaching it, so go do it. Abandon your home. Live in the wild. Hunt for food.

Then catch a disease that you can't be saved from because you've forsaken civilisation and its life-saving healthcare systems.


If I get AIDS? I'd probably die. Just like you would

Seriously though, I'm not preaching running off into the wild. That is just the internet-argument imp inside me that pushes the extremes of my thinking out into the open. I just want to be prepared, to be ABLE to survive alone or with a few others, if that's what it takes. There should be nothing wrong with embracing your animalistic ability and learning how to survive without everything being handed to you by someone else.

AIDS, cancer, genetic diseases, heart dieseases and so on are the very by-product of the civilisation that is trying to cure them. I'm not saying cancer has never existed, but its getting more common with every passing year. Cigarette anyone?

"If our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would have to INVENT problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss."
 
   
Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone



We cannot ignore Mr. Gore's warnings.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in gb
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter







Keyasa wrote:heart dieseases and so on are the very by-product of the civilisation that is trying to cure them.

sure, but on the flipside the reason humans are much smarter now is because we have thousands of different things to stimulate our mind. Living in a cave and doing not much more than fething and hunting wouldn't do much for our heads.

   
Made in gb
Raging Ravener




England, Bucks

Current nuclear power is done by fission, fusion is what powers stars, and releases way more energy than fission. Fission is radioactive decay of Uranium 238, breaking neutrons off the nucleus. Fusion is breaking H+ into its constituent bits, which releases more energy as it's smashing up a proton into elementary particles. Basically, if sustained fusion can be developed, it will solve our energy needs. I hope that answers your question!

死神 
   
Made in gb
Crazy Marauder Horseman




Liverpool

whatwhat wrote:
Keyasa wrote:heart dieseases and so on are the very by-product of the civilisation that is trying to cure them.

sure, but on the flipside the reason humans are much smarter now is because we have thousands of different things to stimulate our mind. Living in a cave and doing not much more than fething and hunting wouldn't do much for our heads.


Thousands of pointless things sure. Nothing as good as fething and hunting

"If our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would have to INVENT problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss."
 
   
Made in au
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

You attributting all this to Al Gore? Pleez. There are athousandthousand better examples you could make.

Also, WE AREN'T there yet. Certainly we are better off than we were in the Dark ages, but not all of us. In fact, not even most of us. Humanities sucess is by no means certain. It would be all to easy for civilisation to stagnate and degenerate. You can't have a lovey-dovey attitude to the world. If you want a better world you have to fight for it. Get kids educated, both in how to think and how to get a job. Also, clear the filth of the streets. Humanity is by no means in the clear. Not by a long shot.

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





About to eat your Avatar...

I would just like to see a more open-minded perspective to life in general, and it seems to be happening.

Public education for growing your own food, and keeping your own compost is actually pretty common out here. I would say 1 in 10 house holds provides something from or to their garden for the whole bay area. If people saw this happening next door in their neighbors yard they would take it as a natural thing that can help them be fit and save a bit of money. There is no breakfast better than a fresh walking apple, orange, or even peach right of a tree IMHO. You could have parks that were futuristic gardens with fruit trees instead of decorative ones. You could walk through the park and just eat what you wanted, the community could manage it, along with a squad of paid interns and one manager. The park itself could hold small farmers markets based in a gated vegetable garden that would be maintained by the interns, and other volunteers. you can grow a surprising amount of food in a small space, the problem is having enough people to eat it all .

I was actually thinking of presenting this idea to the city for a local park that has fallen well in to disrepair. I have done a lot of volunteer work and the whole thing seems a bit overwhelming at this point. I would need to think seriously about how much effort and time I would be willing to put into such a large endeavor.


 
   
Made in gb
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter







Keyasa wrote:
whatwhat wrote:
Keyasa wrote:heart dieseases and so on are the very by-product of the civilisation that is trying to cure them.

sure, but on the flipside the reason humans are much smarter now is because we have thousands of different things to stimulate our mind. Living in a cave and doing not much more than fething and hunting wouldn't do much for our heads.


Thousands of pointless things sure. Nothing as good as fething and hunting


How about the ability to enjoy fething and hunting? That pointless?

   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Cheese Elemental wrote:Wait, what? I'm not being cynical, nor do I claim to know everything. I just have moods like this sometimes after reading all these depressing articles and discussions.


No, I wasn't saying you were. You were asking why so many people were so negative, and I was replying 'because when you know very little you can appear worldly by being very cynical'.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Crazy Marauder Horseman




Liverpool

whatwhat wrote:
Keyasa wrote:
whatwhat wrote:
Keyasa wrote:heart dieseases and so on are the very by-product of the civilisation that is trying to cure them.

sure, but on the flipside the reason humans are much smarter now is because we have thousands of different things to stimulate our mind. Living in a cave and doing not much more than fething and hunting wouldn't do much for our heads.


Thousands of pointless things sure. Nothing as good as fething and hunting


How about the ability to enjoy fething and hunting? That pointless?


Too deep for me, and I'm far too sober (I would only argue that people had a sense of wonder and an ability for enjoyment long before oil became the lifeblood of our world, before the internet, football, porn, and TV)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wrexasaur wrote:I would just like to see a more open-minded perspective to life in general, and it seems to be happening.

Public education for growing your own food, and keeping your own compost is actually pretty common out here. I would say 1 in 10 house holds provides something from or to their garden for the whole bay area. If people saw this happening next door in their neighbors yard they would take it as a natural thing that can help them be fit and save a bit of money. There is no breakfast better than a fresh walking apple, orange, or even peach right of a tree IMHO. You could have parks that were futuristic gardens with fruit trees instead of decorative ones. You could walk through the park and just eat what you wanted, the community could manage it, along with a squad of paid interns and one manager. The park itself could hold small farmers markets based in a gated vegetable garden that would be maintained by the interns, and other volunteers. you can grow a surprising amount of food in a small space, the problem is having enough people to eat it all .

I was actually thinking of presenting this idea to the city for a local park that has fallen well in to disrepair. I have done a lot of volunteer work and the whole thing seems a bit overwhelming at this point. I would need to think seriously about how much effort and time I would be willing to put into such a large endeavor.


Fantastic idea. Anything that goes against the grain of "this is how you must live, money to hand to shop" gets my vote and support. I've tried in vain to grow some small things in my horrible little city garden, but haven't quite managed anything edible yet :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/14 11:54:21


"If our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would have to INVENT problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss."
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





theocd wrote:Fourthly, 'Religions do not crusade against each other.' What do you think the terrorist attacks are? They are attempts by extremists in a certain Faith to rid the world of any others. That is a racial and ethnically cleansing crusade.


That's about the worst summary I've ever heard of Al-Qaeda. Maybe in 2001 or 2002 when they were a fairly new concept to many people but after all this time you really think that's what its about?

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in au
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

I don't think a "puplic fruit tree" is a viable way of suppporting food for the society. People are going to get greedy. As a treat yes, but don't depend on them to feed everyone.

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
 
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