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I'm looking to mechanize my army and I'm wondering whether I should go with razorbacks or rhinos. The character of my army is a little shootier than most, as my elites are a pair of sternguard squads (backed by kantor and one of them is using lysander for his bolter drill silliness)

It depends really on the size of the squads you are using. Large squads need a rhino, but a razorback is better if you are using small squads.

ask not what transport is better for your units, ask what units you should bring, and their transport options will be obvious.

Something else you should consider is combat squading.

If you take a razor back you always have to combat squad if you want any part of the squad to be mobile. With a rhino you always have a choice. Also if your playing an army that has to come to you and its a kp game, you can keep your 10 man tac squad in a rhino and open the hatch and fire the heavy weapon out of it like a ghetto razorback.

In tornys I tend to take all rhinos though because the mobility is very important to me, and I don't like to be stuck with more kps then necessary. + over the course of the game a tl heavy bolter will only kill so much. (IMO the other guns are not worth taking on a razorback because they just about double the raozrbacks cost)

Demogerg wrote:ask not what transport is better for your units, ask what units you should bring, and their transport options will be obvious.

Well, if I had my way, and a ton of money, it would be drop pods for my sternies, and land raiders aplenty. That said, I'm on a bit of a budget and the monetary cost of the heavy support and elite options is a concern for me. In that sense, Razorbacks make for a good argument given that they can add some punch to a mostly troop choice army.

I'll probably go with Rhinos though given that I'm fielding an army consisting mainly of footslogging scorers.

Rhinos have a firing point, so your shooty guys inside can shoot one of their weapons out the top.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Rhinos have a firing point, so your shooty guys inside can shoot one of their weapons out the top.

Only if I don't move it. Which isn't a bad option. Sit a rhino with a plasma cannon on top of a control point, profit.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Rhinos have a firing point, so your shooty guys inside can shoot one of their weapons out the top.

Rhinos have 2 fire points.

Even better

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Even better

Is there any real benefit to bringing that razorback?

Razorbacks are good if you want to transport an HQ and honorguard, because they are probably more assault oriented and won't have any big weapons to fire from the top.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Razorbacks are good if you want to transport an HQ and honorguard, because they are probably more assault oriented and won't have any big weapons to fire from the top.

I could see bringing Pedro and an Honor Guard in one now, especially given that his 12" +1 Attack Bubble gets a boost from the larger model base.

Buy Razorbacks so you have both. Then depends on how you use combat squading. Probably use a mix of the two in objectives if you make half of the squad stay on your objective. I use the flamer and Missile Launcher though. Sergeant, Flamer and three Bolters do the objective capturing. Missile Launcher and four Bolters stay on the objective and slow them down.

Bad thing is that I only brought Rhinos >_>

Rhinos basically rush for the objective, then what I do is Tank Shock any infantry away from them. Razorback would stay with the squad and help stop threats from reaching the objective. Basically the Rhino hangs around the objective, but uses Tank Shocking rather than the single Storm Bolter. Surprisingly they make good guard dogs that way

Don't glue the top hatch onto the tank, so you can interchange between Rhino and razorback depending on what you want o use.

So...the Razorback comes with a hatch, making it look like a Rhino? And follow-up question: The Razorback guns (TL-HB, TL-LC, TL-HF, LC/TL-PG), are they all included in the box?

It's a matter of preference. I find that as you start at the less-equipped tactical squads, the Rhino is the obvious choice. RL/Flamer? Rhino it is, drive around, drop off the squad, do the thing, move on.

As you get more specialized, especially if you like to use the heavy weapon combat squad as a firebase or objective holder, the Razorback makes more sense. If you have a combat squad with Meltagun/Combi-Melta/PF, and a Lascannon in the other CS, you'll probably do well taking a Razorback to add some punch to that forward squad, who we can safely assume will always be operating detatched.

As mentioned before, if you're not sure about the squads typical deployment, or want the option, grab the Rhino. With two firing ports, it actually can be used as a bunker. I've had great success with hanging a Plasmacannon/Plasmagun out of the ports, and decent enough with Lascannon/Plasmagun. I always select the Plasmagun for shooting squads, but you can also bring a flamer if you find them more useful. Don't forget you can move 6" and still have the guys inside fire any non-heavy weapon, so nothing stopping you from rolling 6", rapid firing a plasmagun and having your Sarge fire his Plasma Pistol, too, or firing a meltagun for a little suprise AT punch.

Witzkatz wrote:So...the Razorback comes with a hatch, making it look like a Rhino? And follow-up question: The Razorback guns (TL-HB, TL-LC, TL-HF, LC/TL-PG), are they all included in the box?

If you buy the Razorback kit, you can build a Rhino out of it. In fact, you can build a Rhino out of the Razorback, Predator, and Whirlwind kits. The Rhino sprues have the top hatch for the Rhino and the Turret ring for the other three vehicles. As a result, don't ever buy just a Rhino, get one of the other tanks and get the Rhino and more bitz (at worst, you can sell the additional sprues on dakka or btown or RM or eBay).

The Razorback comes with TL-HB and TL-LC only. You can now order the Crusader/Redeemer sprue to add the TL-Assault Cannons.

Don't glue the guns together though. If I remember correctly it only comes with one of the pieces they connect to, use magnets or something else to hold them together that way you can change if needed.

Static marines are no longer going to cut it. Buy razors but more often than not you will be running them as rhinos

dietrich wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:So...the Razorback comes with a hatch, making it look like a Rhino? And follow-up question: The Razorback guns (TL-HB, TL-LC, TL-HF, LC/TL-PG), are they all included in the box?

If you buy the Razorback kit, you can build a Rhino out of it. In fact, you can build a Rhino out of the Razorback, Predator, and Whirlwind kits. The Rhino sprues have the top hatch for the Rhino and the Turret ring for the other three vehicles. As a result, don't ever buy just a Rhino, get one of the other tanks and get the Rhino and more bitz (at worst, you can sell the additional sprues on dakka or btown or RM or eBay).

The Razorback comes with TL-HB and TL-LC only. You can now order the Crusader/Redeemer sprue to add the TL-Assault Cannons.

Is it possible to buy a predator and not glue the turret and mount in thereby giving me rhinos/preds?

Yes, the tanks based off of the Rhino in design come with the Rhino parts then extra parts to make whatever it is.

n0t_u wrote:Yes, the tanks based off of the Rhino in design come with the Rhino parts then extra parts to make whatever it is.

Convenient. Is there a cheap/reasonable way to pick up the TL Assault Cannon for the razorback mounts, since I have the all knowing dakka forums at my fingertips?

oddjustice wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Yes, the tanks based off of the Rhino in design come with the Rhino parts then extra parts to make whatever it is.

Convenient. Is there a cheap/reasonable way to pick up the TL Assault Cannon for the razorback mounts, since I have the all knowing dakka forums at my fingertips?

Ebay

Easy, depends on the list.

The Razorback's main benefit is being able to fire once it's innards have been emptied.

For Dark Angels, who don't need ten men to get a special weapon, the Razorback provides an extra mobile heavy weapon and squad protection.

Marines taking Razorbacks don't get meltaguns to use when they jump out, because they must be a ten man squad to do so.

dietrich wrote:You can now order the Crusader/Redeemer sprue to add the TL-Assault Cannons.

oddjustice wrote:Convenient. Is there a cheap/reasonable way to pick up the TL Assault Cannon for the razorback mounts, since I have the all knowing dakka forums at my fingertips?

GW Mail Order has the new plastic Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer sprue available for order. It has a plastic TL-AC that will fit in the Razorback mount.

Adding to consensis, buy Razorbacks 5 bucks more and you can have both rhinos and Razorbacks.

I have a better time running Razorbacks because I love combat squading my tact marines all the time.

whitedragon wrote:For Dark Angels, who don't need ten men to get a special weapon, the Razorback provides an extra mobile heavy weapon and squad protection.

Marines taking Razorbacks don't get meltaguns to use when they jump out, because they must be a ten man squad to do so.

This is not correct. It is possible to take a full Tactical Squad with an attached Razorback and use Combat Squads to transport a special weapon in the Razorback. I personally favor this option.

Fetterkey wrote:

whitedragon wrote:For Dark Angels, who don't need ten men to get a special weapon, the Razorback provides an extra mobile heavy weapon and squad protection.

Marines taking Razorbacks don't get meltaguns to use when they jump out, because they must be a ten man squad to do so.

This is not correct. It is possible to take a full Tactical Squad with an attached Razorback and use Combat Squads to transport a special weapon in the Razorback. I personally favor this option.

Unfortunately, that leaves your other boys high and dry with no ride, which can be bad against Lash and other mechanized armies.

whitedragon wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

whitedragon wrote:For Dark Angels, who don't need ten men to get a special weapon, the Razorback provides an extra mobile heavy weapon and squad protection.

Marines taking Razorbacks don't get meltaguns to use when they jump out, because they must be a ten man squad to do so.

This is not correct. It is possible to take a full Tactical Squad with an attached Razorback and use Combat Squads to transport a special weapon in the Razorback. I personally favor this option.

Unfortunately, that leaves your other boys high and dry with no ride, which can be bad against Lash and other mechanized armies.

Well, that's why you leave the guy with the cheap (and/or free) heavy weapon behind in a safer spot to stand and shoot.

IMO, the main problem with the Razorback isn't leaving (at least one) combat squad without a ride, it's forcing you to split squads (and thus yield the extra kill point) if you want *anyone* to ride.