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Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






SemperMortis wrote:
Rare Rule: You are now ELIGIBLE TO BE SELECTED TO SHOOT even without guns and even if you ADVANCED THAT TURN for purposes of using an ability. Bomb squigs are wargear that have an ability. IE they go boom.


Aaaand you did again. This is completely wrong, every single word of it.

What the rule you are continuously trying to misrepresent actually says is this:
NON-SHOOTING ABILITIES
Some models and units have abilities that can be used instead of shooting with that model or unit.

Squigs are NOT an ability you can use INSTEAD OF SHOOTING.

This is how an ability used INSTEAD OF SHOOTING looks like:
Smoke Launchers: Once per battle, instead of shooting in your Shooting phase, this model can use its smoke launchers. Until the start of your next Shooting phase, when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against this model, subtract 1 from the hit roll.
Note how that rule does not require you to select the unit to shoot? How it does not require it to be eligible to shoot?

INSTEAD OF SHOOTING means that you don't get to shoot. An ability like bomb squigs that allows you both use it and still shoot is NEVER and ability that is used INSTEAD OF SHOOTING.

Such abilities can only be used in your Shooting phase, but can be used even if your unit has no ranged weapons, or if it Advanced or Fell Back this turn, and such abilities can be used even while the unit is within Engagement Range of any enemy units.

Squigs are not SUCH [an] ABILITY, as they are NOT an ability done INSTEAD OF SHOOTING. Therefore the rule does NOT apply.

It also does NOT make a unit eligible to shot for any purpose, even if does have an ability used instead of shooting. You made that part up.
A rule has to explicitly say that a unit is eligible to shoot despite advancing (like assault weapons do!), otherwise you do not have permission to select that unit to shot, and thus never get the chance to use a bomb squig.

And once more from the summary:
- Abilities used ‘instead of shooting’ can be used in your Shooting phase.
- Such abilities can be used even if unit Advanced, Fell Back or is in Engagement Range of enemy.

While not actual rules, the quotes here imply that it refers that that very specific wording.

Unless you provide a coherent argument USING THE ACTUAL RULES, and not a misleading summary you pulled out of nowhere, proving that bomb squigs work the same as 8th edition smoke launchers, I refuse to continue to discuss it.

You continuously failing to properly quote this rule also shows some clear intention behind it. I would have expected better from you

This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 08:37:37


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

gungo wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
gungo wrote:


I don’t think the scrapjet is horrible, but I don’t think it’s worth 25% more (20pts) then a kustom boosta blasta.


They are worth it - especially with goff culture, that I tend to run lately, that buffs their allready decent mellee. Boosta blastas can't boast 15 s9 ap2 d3 attacks with exploding 6s backed up by 3d3 (triggered on 4+) mw.

They both have spiked ram ability so the MW thing is a wash and maybe the scrapjet is better as goff because he has a better melee profile… it’s just a pretty big point bump between the 2 units.


I think it's worth it. Scrapjets combine ranged anti infantry, ranged anti tank and decent melee into one profile. KBB is ranged anti light vehicles/elites plus anti infantry into very close range and some melee. The scrapjets fires 30ish shots during the speedwaaagh but Freebooterz trait doesn't enhance the burna exhausts, which autohits, so the KBB benefits very little from it compared to the scrapjet, and +1 to hit to that kind of firepower is a massive bonus; the KBB in general doesn't do much until it gets in very close range. Rokkits from the scrapjets seems much better than the KBB's main gun, so are the 20-22 big shoota shots (half of them always +1 to hit) compared to the flamers. 20 points gap seems about right to me.

I usually don't do max squads and I'm taking both kind of buggies though. Typically a squadron 2 scrapjets and a lone KBB.

 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





 Tomsug wrote:
Hey guys, slow down withthe Specialist detachements!

1. You can' t use it on the unit in Aux supp detach.
2. You lost the Clan keyword, so your warlord cannot be a specialist (I see wartrike is a big boss, not warlord, but I saw such error somewhere else)
3. Because you lost the Clan keyword, you cannot use Driven by Dakka strategem and potentialy Fasta then yooz (valid for bikers only).

What is a good point however is, that you can you a Flyboyz on the planes for better save. They don' t care about ES rules.


Not sure thats All correct.

1. You mean the adrenaline Junkies rule? I guess that part is correct as you only loose detachment abilities and (technically) only that one is listed as ability. But that's actually not that bad on the wartrike as it already has a 5++ and he has assault weapons, so those could still hit on a 6 (or autohit with the flamer). He will loose the bonus attack and can't start actions after advancing.

2. & 3.You don't loose the clan keyword in a aux detachment, just the detachment abilities. Not sure if there is any rule where it actually matters, as he will still loose the access to strats and so on.
(At least I think it's that way. I'm sure you loose Clan culture but I don't know a 100% about strats.)

But you should still get the Speed Mob Keyword and have access to the traits and in case of the warboss on bike gain ObSec.

Overall its a bit confusing as there is no real information especially on the AoRs and what parts are really considered detachment abilities.


@Wazbom: Yeah I have been running them as Flyboys as well, but if I would take a Boomer for whatever reason I'd prefer to give him Boom Boys for the extra AP.


@Bombsquig: Maybe the discussion should be moved to YMDC to keep this thread clean? I'm with Jidmah on that one and have build 3 burna Kommandos anyway.
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

1. No, I mean you cannot have Madboy Wartrike in Aux supp detachement.
2.+3. Ehhh… no. Bloody GW with their stupid terminology. You speak about Speed Mob AoR. And you are right.

But I speak about Specialist Mobs like Trukkboyz, Pyromaniacs etc.

You are ok with Speed Mob to use CLAN strategems.

But you are NOT OK to use such strategems (or other CLAN locked abilities) on Boomboyz Deffkoptas, Madboy Wartrike, Pyromiacs KBBs etc.
[Thumb - EADDDE63-EED0-4712-AFA0-397F64415402.jpeg]

[Thumb - A61D1CA3-FD1B-496B-B682-E4CF7011DE4E.jpeg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 09:47:29


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Made in nl
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Ready? "An eligible unit is one that has one more models equipped with ranged weapons" Yes, when you advance you are technically not "eligible" except that the rare rule in question literally states "Such abilities can only be used in your shooting phase, but can be used even if your unit has no ranged weapons, or if it advanced or fell back this turn"


Semper, you are just cherry-picking sentences. You repeatedly not quoting the relevant rules in their entirety means that you are intentionally arguing in bad faith here.

The "Such abilities" in the rare rule absolutely does not apply to squigs because it is not a rule used instead of shooting and playing it that way is flat out cheating.

If you feel comfortable cheating like that and aren't caught, that's your business. But it puts your tournament achievements in a bad light, considering how you twist the rules to read whatever you feel like.

I don't think it was meant for that.

Ork codex is recent and that rare rule which was probably intended of 8th edition abilities.

I would say if they wanted it to be used when not shooting they would have said so directly in the squig bomb ability, Ork codex is only a few months old after all.
But that rare rule was released in 2020
Ork Codex rules as written sets precedence.
In general you go with new more recent rules over old rules

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 11:10:00


SMASH  
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Aaah I see.
Well it's gonna be a rare case where you want to play an outrider and 1 auxiliary anyway.

Since I have a little over two weeks left for list deadline I'm gonna get a few more test games.
I hope I can get a game against Tau as well, because we will have at least 2 Tau players and I have no idea how Speed Mob will do against them.

Gonna have another test game tomorrow, this time I'll try BA Speed mob.
That's my idea so far:
Spoiler:

2 Outriders / 7 CP

Wartrike (Warlord, Speed King, Finking Cap, Drag chains)
Warboss (I've got a plan lads, Killa Klaw)
3 Scrapjets
3 Squigbuggies
1 Dragsta (Squighide tires)
1 Snazzwagon (Souped up specul)
1 Boosta Blasta
5 Koptas
3 x 3 Bikes
Wazbom
Dakkajet (Moar Dakka)

Idea was to put both fliers and maybe the Boosta Blasta in strategic reserve for free with I've got a plan lads.
With 5 bonus CP and finkin cap that's about 14-15 CP to play with.
Not sure about the 55 points invested in Custom Jobs. I really like the extra movement on the Dragsta for Engage or objective grabbing out of somewhere hidden.
The other CJ are just for a little bit of extra damage on my units.
Alternative would be to leave the boosta blasta and some custom jobs to make the Dakka Jet another Wazbom.
That would mean a little more antitank but a bit less flexibility.
I don't really see a point in adding 2-3 more bikes. Either 3 x 3 or 3 x 5 or even more.

Otherwise if I skip all custom jobs I could take 2 Wazboms as well if I run both without KFF and Supa shootas.
It's the main guns you want anyway but you really need to kill all treads by turn 2 then.
I could add more bikers as well as backup for better chances to retrieve Nachmund data, but that's 100+ points as well.

Right now that list has only those secondary options:
Engage
Assassination or Bring it Down
No Prisoners or To the last or Grind them down.

So in some matches scoring above 80-90 will be a tough nut to crack.
On the other hand Retrieve can easily be denied by a good opponent as well if he just kills a few Bikes of each squad.

   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

I think the ES + 2 x koptas you can hide via Driven by Dakka and Attack out o da sun that are TTL units is a must for Speed Mob. You need to score. And without TTL you have no plan and a play a gamble with pretty high chance to have no third secondary.

I' m not sure about Jets in reserves. Thier power is in shooting soon. If you put them into the reserves and go second, opponent shoots on you for 2 turns already…

The dilema is also wazboom vs. Dakkajet. If you make the calculations, there is a lot of surprising targets that suffer the +/- same by 2 dakkajets than by single wazboom. Not just the infantry. All invu, wounding always on 4+, damage reduction and overkill by high random dmg weapons cuts the wazbooms real dmg output. Try calculate the Mortarion or Necron Barques.

And if you fly 2 dakkajets, just 240p is hanging in the air. Same number of wounds, same T, same -1 to hit. Just the 5++ is missing.

That is about 200p less than 2 wazbooms. That is 4 koptas or 2 buggies more on the table.

I still like the gamble with 2 wazbooms slightly more, because if they hit, they hit like brick. But that hangs 21% of my army into the air…


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 11:49:46


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Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Good point with TTL. ES with 2 x 5 Koptas und 3 Squigbuggies has a solid chance for 15 VP.
In my BA list it would be the Scrapjets as well.
That leaves Engage + Assassinate or bring it down which should be enough for a potential 90+ scoring most games. That's one argument for the Dakkajet as well, he has proven more reliable for sneaky asassination fly bys. More than once the Wazbom rolled below average and failed with the opponent rolling hot for invulns.

About fliers in reserve, that's heavily depending on the opponents anti tank range.
If I have a good chance to keep them alive turn 1 I always go for it.
But they die quite fast and tend to get a lot of hate by my regular opponents. Loosing about 450 points turn one is NOT cool.

I think it depends on the Clan. Freebooters Speed Mob 2 Wazboms are an auto-take.
ES and BA can do both.
Good thing we just have 2 relevant fliers. Imagine the headache we would have 4 actual valid options to choose from.
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

In my Speed mob I don' t bet on any “kill stuff” secondaries. Good players I face do not offer me the right targets regularly.

My sweet spot is -
- TTL
- strangelhold/engage/BEHIND ENEMY LINES!!
- good bitz (done by bikers)

Good Bitz and Behind have a very solid VP per turn ration so I can focus on killing in T1 and T2.

If someone offers me a good killing secondary, I take it of course

I have a bad experience with TTL and scrapjets. They are so obvious target and so huge unit impossible to hide, they die almost always no later than T3. And that is ok for me. Scrapjets are the front fighters. But front fighters cannot be the TTL.

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Danmark

Hmm.. I wish i had actual squig buggies and more bikers to pull of an army of renown.

It sounds like fun.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Yeah the games are a lot faster and still fun. To be honest it's a lot less interaction as melee heavy alphorks or similar / mixed stuff but it's still about making the right call the right time.
Have been brutally wiped as well with Speed Mob, 2-3 mistakes can be devastating as it could mean to loose lots of points and dakka fast.

@Tomsug: Behind enemy lines? Sounds like balls of steel unless it's dawn of war like deployment and not much fast stuff on the opponents side.^^
And it kinda feels like a "win harder if you already winning" secondary.

Good bits is a great secondary on the right map though.
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

Behind Enemy Lines and Teleport Homers. That means balls of steel

But if the opponent has a low unit count and map has just one home objective, than Behind and SOMETHING ELSE THAN HOMERS is a great opportunity for your koptas etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I' m looking on to LVO player manual and there are the typical tables…

Heck, that is pretty open! Shooting range!

Or am I already screwed by the TTS standards?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-T4mWdvLThJjgNHpNRt7IB5uQxxd66_zTKAyYAd5oe4/edit?usp=sharing
[Thumb - C31302D8-22E1-4A9E-90E0-F0C0770A2A04.jpeg]

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 20:30:14


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Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

BTW, since you guys are talking about squig bomb rule: does SquigBomb ignore Look Out Sir ?
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot






I'm looking to grow my Speed Freeks collection and I'm hoping you folks can recommend me some buggies.

The core of my army is a Warboss on Warbike, Bikers, Bonebreaka's and Deff Koptas. I'm not looking for the best of the best just something that is fun to use and hopefully draw fire away so my deff rollas can run over the enemy unhindered.

I currently have a Shokkjump Dragsta which I enjoy and am considering getting more. I've also had my eye on the Boomdakka snazzwagon which is a really great looking model.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I'm looking to grow my Speed Freeks collection and I'm hoping you folks can recommend me some buggies.

The core of my army is a Warboss on Warbike, Bikers, Bonebreaka's and Deff Koptas. I'm not looking for the best of the best just something that is fun to use and hopefully draw fire away so my deff rollas can run over the enemy unhindered.

I currently have a Shokkjump Dragsta which I enjoy and am considering getting more. I've also had my eye on the Boomdakka snazzwagon which is a really great looking model.


Currently the go to buggy of all trades is the Megatrakk Scrapjet. Even after the slight points hike and balance update restriction, they're still very worth their weight in points given that they have their inbuilt mortal wounds ability after finishing a charge, their flat 3 damage ranged weapon (something sorely needed in the current meta with -1D abilities everywhere) and they also aren't pushovers in melee either.

The other one you might want to consider is one Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy, as it offers a unique niche that Ork players don't really have otherwise in our army, which is out of LoS shooting. Hitting on 4+ with the main weapon is pretty big and having one with the Nitro Squigs Kustom Job basically gives it carte blanche to hunt down and kill objective monkey units hiding behind terrain or chipping off the wounds from elite infantry units and even vehicles if you need to really take off a few wounds left from a transport.

After that, would come the Shokkjump Dragsta as you mentioned, followed by the Kustom Boosta Blasta and the Boomdakka Snazzwagon. I'm personally more partial to the KBB myself, mainly because it's another source of mortal wounds and the flamers are very useful, IMO to deal with infantry like Eldar that are hard to hit during the shooting phase.
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot






Wow, I missed that on my first read through but there's a lot of MW potential on the Spiked Ram. Seems like that would be a better fit alone side the bonebreakas than the Snazzwagon.

While I like the KBB model better I think the Scrapjet but might a better fit for the army.
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

Scrapjet is the most usefull buggy for 2 years already or how long. On the other side, Snazzwagon was never a choice.

I don' t know how fast you paint and in what squads (I do buggies in 3 together). So I don' t know, how much time are you gonna spent by painting. But todays tips could be irelevant pretty soon. For example some nerf on Scrapjet and boost on Snazzwagon. I dunno…

If you have no huge competitivy potential, follow the rule of cool. Paint what buggy you like. Non is a total junk. And they are a new models, GW will support them in the game for next couple of years…

Just convert! They are so cool go be converted, it' s a waste of plastic to glue them as they come in the box!
[Thumb - B227546B-7E4B-44DB-A96F-81C45416D4DC.jpeg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/27 06:43:21


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Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

XC18 wrote:
BTW, since you guys are talking about squig bomb rule: does SquigBomb ignore Look Out Sir ?


as far as im aware it does, because its not an attack.

Its an ability. Abilities dont have look out sir, only normal shooting attacks does.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





United Kingdom

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I'm looking to grow my Speed Freeks collection and I'm hoping you folks can recommend me some buggies.

The core of my army is a Warboss on Warbike, Bikers, Bonebreaka's and Deff Koptas. I'm not looking for the best of the best just something that is fun to use and hopefully draw fire away so my deff rollas can run over the enemy unhindered.

I currently have a Shokkjump Dragsta which I enjoy and am considering getting more. I've also had my eye on the Boomdakka snazzwagon which is a really great looking model.


All of the buggies are good realistically speaking.

My personal opinions:
Megatrakk Scrapjet - Very good anti-armour firepower from the rokkits, which even adds to the respectable anti-chaff of the twin Big Shootas due to Blast. It also has a decent melee profile and mortal wound output on the charge thanks to the nose drill and spiked ram. Very powerful all-rounder even after the points bump, and it's live in a number of different phases. Good to run at any unit size.

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy - Great anti-chaff and anti-MEQ firepower, and it doesn't need line of sight. The native +1 to hit makes it very reliable, and the +1 to wound from Nitro Squigs makes it great against everything. It has some situational mortal wound output and a respectable melee profile, however both of these are not likely to come up too often as it is best used to babysit the backfield and shell small units to trigger the Freeboota +1 or to strip wounds from big threats. Main downside is the cost, being the most expensive buggy, however it is also the best single buggy in a vacuum in my opinion. Use either 1 with Nitro Squigs or 3 as an artillery park.

Boomdakka Snazzwagon - Strong anti-chaff firepower with a smattering of anti-MEQ potential. Generally wants to sit in the midfield clearing screens, occupying the board space between the Rukkatrukks and the Scrapjets. Despite this it is capable in melee because of the in-combat shooting from the Mek Speshul and Big Shoota. Suffers somewhat due to the lack of a built in +1 to hit with the Mek Speshul and gets relegated to chip damage when their isn't anything soft to shoot at. More Dakka or Souped Up Speshul are viable choices, but only if you have nothing else to spend the points on. Generally you will be running 1 of this if any at all, however I like 2 in my list as a personal preference.

Kustom Boosta Blasta - Decent all-rounder, however my least favourite buggy. It's also the cheapest of the buggies. It sports decent anti-MEQ and great anti-chaff firepower, albeit the anti-chaff is very short ranged. It also has good mortal wound potential to make up for the lack of a real melee profile (outside of the burna exhausts, which are great because they auto-hit). Generally wants to be used to race in and clear a screen before trying to ram something a bit more valuable off of the board. I haven't used this too much, however I've found it works well as a 1 model unit.

Shokkjump Dragsta - Great anti-armour firepower and a decent melee profile, but will flounder against mass-infantry lists. Incredibly maneuverable due to a 14" move AND a built in deep strike mechanic. It fires at a whopping BS3+ with its Shokk Rifle, so it's firepower is very reliable. Best used to hunt armour and then jump back behind cover with Shokk Tunnel, or to get into the enemies backfield to snipe long range armour and score on Behind Enemy Lines or Engage On All Fronts. Was let down by the new codex though, as using Shokk Tunnel with more than 1 can be very frustrating or downright impossible depending on the terrain on the board. Use 1 if you want it to jump around the board, but can be used in larger units of terrain is favourable or you forgo jumping completely.



TL;DR
All the buggies are good, but the Scrapjet and the Squigbuggy are the standout choices. Ultimately, it will depend on your meta what you choose for your other buggies and how many of each. Proxy each for a few games and see what you like the feel of.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

KBB used to a be great distraction unit when they could turn their exhausts into heavy flamer by stratagem. Now being the cheapest buggies they still have their purpose but they're certainly not amazing. Snazzwagons are a bit better in a vacuum I think but they lack a real purpose in the army, more than KBBs, as for the same job we have better much units like warbikes and dakkajets.

 
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

KBBs are fine. Cheap, fast, spiked ram and flamer againts -1 to hit eldars of various types and long range autocannon. This gives you different weapons than the rest of the army. Flexibility.

Snazzwagon hitting on 5+ With more or less just “big shootas” suffers terribly by -1 to hit = reduce his shooting to 50%


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wazboom vs Dakkajet

With the new Tau damage666 weapons and spaming of damage reduction (wracks spam by Mani Cheema etc) I have a feeling, that Dakkajets will be on the rise…

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 09:52:08


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Kbbs also are a bit better in speedmob
A unit of 2 or 3 is also great for the crashing through strat
Plus a unit of 2-3 makes good use of the reroll 1 strat by becoming reroll 1 and 2s. Although that strat is also good on a Dakkajet.
They can also be a pyro specialist without any problems in a speedmob.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 11:57:38


 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot






I'm a pretty fast painter but nowhere near high quality. I've also got a 5month old so my time to paint is limited and also at about 3AM after he falls back asleep. I'm not too worried about which units stays in the meta too long, mostly I'm looking for buggies that are very fun to use. I'm leaning towards the Scrapjet because I love melee oriented vehicles and could use some more antitank at my FLGS, but the KBB and Snazzwagon are also contenders. I do have a Dakkajet so there's overlap with the Snazzwagon.

Next time I run my Orks I'll give it a shot with a KBB proxy to see if that fits the army or if I want to go for the full melee thrill with the Scrapjet. Thanks for the advice!

 Afrodactyl wrote:

Shokkjump Dragsta - Great anti-armour firepower and a decent melee profile, but will flounder against mass-infantry lists. Incredibly maneuverable due to a 14" move AND a built in deep strike mechanic. It fires at a whopping BS3+ with its Shokk Rifle, so it's firepower is very reliable. Best used to hunt armour and then jump back behind cover with Shokk Tunnel, or to get into the enemies backfield to snipe long range armour and score on Behind Enemy Lines or Engage On All Fronts. Was let down by the new codex though, as using Shokk Tunnel with more than 1 can be very frustrating or downright impossible depending on the terrain on the board. Use 1 if you want it to jump around the board, but can be used in larger units of terrain is favourable or you forgo jumping completely.


Hiding behind cover requires Drive by Dakka right? On occasion I run my guys as Blood Axes since the disengage and charge is very valuable for the Warboss and Bonebreakas.
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





United Kingdom

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

Hiding behind cover requires Drive by Dakka right? On occasion I run my guys as Blood Axes since the disengage and charge is very valuable for the Warboss and Bonebreakas.


You are correct. Ignore the bit about shooting then jumping, that's an Evil Sunz thing. This is what happens when I post things when I should be sleeping.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Tomsug wrote:
Behind Enemy Lines and Teleport Homers. That means balls of steel

But if the opponent has a low unit count and map has just one home objective, than Behind and SOMETHING ELSE THAN HOMERS is a great opportunity for your koptas etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I' m looking on to LVO player manual and there are the typical tables…

Heck, that is pretty open! Shooting range!

Or am I already screwed by the TTS standards?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-T4mWdvLThJjgNHpNRt7IB5uQxxd66_zTKAyYAd5oe4/edit?usp=sharing


These aren't the table layouts, only the actual number of terrain bits. LVO is player placed/optimized terrain.
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

Yeah, that is it. There is not enough dakka..

Oh I mean not enough terrain pieces! I would expect about 30% more.

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Spoiler:
 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Rare Rule: You are now ELIGIBLE TO BE SELECTED TO SHOOT even without guns and even if you ADVANCED THAT TURN for purposes of using an ability. Bomb squigs are wargear that have an ability. IE they go boom.


Aaaand you did again. This is completely wrong, every single word of it.

What the rule you are continuously trying to misrepresent actually says is this:
NON-SHOOTING ABILITIES
Some models and units have abilities that can be used instead of shooting with that model or unit.

Squigs are NOT an ability you can use INSTEAD OF SHOOTING.

This is how an ability used INSTEAD OF SHOOTING looks like:
Smoke Launchers: Once per battle, instead of shooting in your Shooting phase, this model can use its smoke launchers. Until the start of your next Shooting phase, when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against this model, subtract 1 from the hit roll.
Note how that rule does not require you to select the unit to shoot? How it does not require it to be eligible to shoot?

INSTEAD OF SHOOTING means that you don't get to shoot. An ability like bomb squigs that allows you both use it and still shoot is NEVER and ability that is used INSTEAD OF SHOOTING.

Such abilities can only be used in your Shooting phase, but can be used even if your unit has no ranged weapons, or if it Advanced or Fell Back this turn, and such abilities can be used even while the unit is within Engagement Range of any enemy units.

Squigs are not SUCH [an] ABILITY, as they are NOT an ability done INSTEAD OF SHOOTING. Therefore the rule does NOT apply.

It also does NOT make a unit eligible to shot for any purpose, even if does have an ability used instead of shooting. You made that part up.
A rule has to explicitly say that a unit is eligible to shoot despite advancing (like assault weapons do!), otherwise you do not have permission to select that unit to shot, and thus never get the chance to use a bomb squig.

And once more from the summary:
- Abilities used ‘instead of shooting’ can be used in your Shooting phase.
- Such abilities can be used even if unit Advanced, Fell Back or is in Engagement Range of enemy.

While not actual rules, the quotes here imply that it refers that that very specific wording.

Unless you provide a coherent argument USING THE ACTUAL RULES, and not a misleading summary you pulled out of nowhere, proving that bomb squigs work the same as 8th edition smoke launchers, I refuse to continue to discuss it.

You continuously failing to properly quote this rule also shows some clear intention behind it. I would have expected better from you


Summary: You interpret "instead of shooting" to mean the unit or model has to forego shooting in order to use the ability, you cite Smoke launchers. I interpret it to mean an ability used instead of shooting, IE an ability that ISNT shooting. A Bomb Squig is not a ranged weapon and therefore does not shoot. So its an ability used in the shooting phase instead of shooting. We can continue to disagree, I will not say you are right and likely vice versa, so back to where I stood. Unless a TO or judge says otherwise i'll continue to use it the same way as I have been. And if you really want to call that cheating than feel free. I'll just keep saying you are wrong.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

SemperMortis wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Rare Rule: You are now ELIGIBLE TO BE SELECTED TO SHOOT even without guns and even if you ADVANCED THAT TURN for purposes of using an ability. Bomb squigs are wargear that have an ability. IE they go boom.


Aaaand you did again. This is completely wrong, every single word of it.

What the rule you are continuously trying to misrepresent actually says is this:
NON-SHOOTING ABILITIES
Some models and units have abilities that can be used instead of shooting with that model or unit.

Squigs are NOT an ability you can use INSTEAD OF SHOOTING.

This is how an ability used INSTEAD OF SHOOTING looks like:
Smoke Launchers: Once per battle, instead of shooting in your Shooting phase, this model can use its smoke launchers. Until the start of your next Shooting phase, when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against this model, subtract 1 from the hit roll.
Note how that rule does not require you to select the unit to shoot? How it does not require it to be eligible to shoot?

INSTEAD OF SHOOTING means that you don't get to shoot. An ability like bomb squigs that allows you both use it and still shoot is NEVER and ability that is used INSTEAD OF SHOOTING.

Such abilities can only be used in your Shooting phase, but can be used even if your unit has no ranged weapons, or if it Advanced or Fell Back this turn, and such abilities can be used even while the unit is within Engagement Range of any enemy units.

Squigs are not SUCH [an] ABILITY, as they are NOT an ability done INSTEAD OF SHOOTING. Therefore the rule does NOT apply.

It also does NOT make a unit eligible to shot for any purpose, even if does have an ability used instead of shooting. You made that part up.
A rule has to explicitly say that a unit is eligible to shoot despite advancing (like assault weapons do!), otherwise you do not have permission to select that unit to shot, and thus never get the chance to use a bomb squig.

And once more from the summary:
- Abilities used ‘instead of shooting’ can be used in your Shooting phase.
- Such abilities can be used even if unit Advanced, Fell Back or is in Engagement Range of enemy.

While not actual rules, the quotes here imply that it refers that that very specific wording.

Unless you provide a coherent argument USING THE ACTUAL RULES, and not a misleading summary you pulled out of nowhere, proving that bomb squigs work the same as 8th edition smoke launchers, I refuse to continue to discuss it.

You continuously failing to properly quote this rule also shows some clear intention behind it. I would have expected better from you


Summary: You interpret "instead of shooting" to mean the unit or model has to forego shooting in order to use the ability, you cite Smoke launchers. I interpret it to mean an ability used instead of shooting, IE an ability that ISNT shooting. A Bomb Squig is not a ranged weapon and therefore does not shoot. So its an ability used in the shooting phase instead of shooting. We can continue to disagree, I will not say you are right and likely vice versa, so back to where I stood. Unless a TO or judge says otherwise i'll continue to use it the same way as I have been. And if you really want to call that cheating than feel free. I'll just keep saying you are wrong.
But... "Instead of" doesn't mean "In addition to".

Bomb Squigs do not REPLACE shooting, they are in addition to it.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Had Another Speed Mob game today against Necrons.

2 BA ouriders but slighlty changed my list from above to fit 2 Wazboms:
Spoiler:
Wartrike (Warlord, Speed King, Finking Cap, Drag chains)
Warboss (I've got a plan lads, Killa Klaw)
2 Scrapjets
3 Squigbuggies
1 Dragsta (Squighide tires)
1 Snazzwagon (Souped up specul)
1 Boosta Blasta
5 Koptas
3 x 3 Bikes
2 fully equipped Wazboms

Went against Necrons with custom trait (pregame move & 1 wound rr per unit)
Spoiler:
Silent King
Void Dragon
Phareon with relic Orb
2 Chronomancers
1 Technomancer
2 x 3 heavy Destroyers with Dmg 3D3 weapon
20 Reaper Warriors
10 + 5 Immortals


I went for TTL, Engage and Assassinate and got second turn.
I had used the Warbosses WL trait to put the 2 Wazboms in reserve and managed to hide all my oher stuff besides the 2 Scrapjets of which lost 1.
The Necron player gave his shooting Destroyers in dense cover a 5++ as well as his 20 Warriors. The Orks did poorly, killed 1 1/2 destroyers and many Warriors. Made my biggest mistake with the Koptas and didn`t use ramming speed or crashing through as it probably would have been overkill on his warriors. Too bad my rolls were terrible and he had 4 Warriors left and i failed to fully score engage as well before flying towards the sun.

His 2nd turn the Dragon starting his 4 turn Rampage of spreading MW`s and killing my engaging Warbikes. Silent Kings Dakka Pylons & the Destroyers killed 2 more buggies.
Relic orb and Tecnomancer revived all my first turn kills besides 2 warriors. :(
My Wazboms and the Koptas swooped down for a deadly salvo of Dakka, but because good positioning of the Necs in dense terrain and an absurd amount of passed invulns i barely managed to kill the Pylons and failed on the warriors again.
Once more i was not able to kill the 5++ Destroyers but managed to kite the Silent King and the Dragon, which didn`t matter much because his Void Dragon did over 20 long range MW´s over the curse of 3 turns and besides my engage units i wash pushed back hard.

The Orks pulled up a good fight but it was an uphill race at that point. Warboss killed 1 Warrior and got smashed by them in return.
Wazboms did 0 wounds over the curse of their final 2 turns, must have been my worst shooting with them ever.
Squigbuggies and Koptas did a lot better but in the end there were too many important targets for them to handle them all.
1 heroic Chronamancer managed to survive two squig-heavy shooting phases and 1 close combat with the remaining 2 Squigbuggies and killed one of them. He better gets a neat upgrade back home in his Tomb world, because he survived the Wartrikes Shooting, charge MW`s and melee attacks in the final battle round as well. What a boss.

I tried to get most out of my secondaries but by the end of turn 5 all i had left was the Wartrike.
With 0 points on TTL and 20 primary VP`s less than those mean robots it was a clear win for the them.


Fazit for me:
Don`t get greedy on CP if you really need that 1 squad of Necrons to go away.
3 Scrapjets is just too good to pass on. Guess i`ll degrade one of the Wazboms then. I went for 2 so i would`t have to use them for TTL, thats the only downer for me if i want 3.
Warbikes did good. Some shooting, some boosting and cheap throwaway scoring.
Same for the KBB and Snazzwagon. Nothing overwhelming but did what i took them for.
Dragsta was good as usual for some quality shots and using his speed. Right now it`s my favourite buggy to add after the Scrapjets and Squigbuggies.
Squigbuggies are still an auto take for me. They are great for shooting MSU squads and help a lot if you need to finish something off your big bangers didn`t kill completely.
They had a bad day but were still helpful and offer a lot without taking up space.

Next game is on tuesday, so i got the weekend to tune my list a bit more.
If anyone of you manages to get a Speed Mob game against GSC or Tau, i`d be pretty interested to hear how it went.

   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

Beardedragon wrote:
XC18 wrote:
BTW, since you guys are talking about squig bomb rule: does SquigBomb ignore Look Out Sir ?


as far as im aware it does, because its not an attack.

Its an ability. Abilities dont have look out sir, only normal shooting attacks does.


you don't even need line of sight


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOOTAS will be down to 15 pts.

arn't they worth a serious look now? no one seems to be talking about them that much




lootas in boss bunka with the new terrain could be cool

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/01/28 01:09:36


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