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Marneus Calgar in Termie armour
Epistolary Librarian with plasma pistol(null zone and machine curse)

#1 Tactical squad,ML,MG,Combi-Melta
#2 Tactical squad,ML,MG,Combi-Melta
#3 Tactical squad,MM,Flamer,Combi-Plasma,Pwr Fist

#1 Scout squad,Camo-cloaks
#2 Scout squad,Camo-cloaks,ML

Land Speeder x3 Typhoon Squadron

#1Devastator Squad,4 Plasma Cannons
#2Devastator Squad,2ml,2LC

Ironclad Dreadnought,HKx2,Hvy Flamer,Assault Launchers
Dreadnought,Twin-Linked LC,ML,xtra armour

It won 1st at our prelim Ard Boyz but for the semi-final round I am finding it hard to replace anything as everything worked the way it should have during the 1st round..Any suggestions on how to make it stronger?

Where did you play at? I'm just curious as I'd love to run into that list

As for the list itself you've got 7 squads on foot without any transports. How do you intend to contest or hold the objectives on the enemies side of the table? Those dreads and speeders shouldn't last more than 2 turns total for all 5 with the amount of anti-tank/transport shooting most people are bringing in the current mech environment.

What are the scouts armed with?

I would love to face this list too, there is nothing it does right. You seriously won something with this?

I hoping you put rhinos in for those tac marines because if not they wont last long. Predators are better than the devastators. What lists did you beat in the prelims?

Hate to be the one to say it but if you are knocking his list you might want to say that you qualified for the semis as well. Don't knock it if you did not make it. He might know something you don't. It may not look good on paper but HE could really know how to play it. In the right place this army could be a major problem for some people. It does not fit the STANDARD template of what a dakka list is. However if I recall right, Necrons won 1st in the nationals one year. Bet the folks here did not see that one coming. Just to keep things in perspective.

---Before you ask, I got first with 69 battle points with the guard. Balanced list. My list would be thrashed by Dakkites. It does very well despite that it does not fit the standard template. Most people are at a loss as to how to deal with it as it does not have a tatica written about it like most power lists. His list could be the same. At first glance his list would not give me many problems but its all about the match ups, terrain, mission and other factors, so you never know till it happens- I could get schooled by it. Cut the guy some slack and give pointers and your opinions, don't just trash it. However to the OP, take it all with a grain of salt as many of the people who will tell you your list is not great, and how to fix it DID NOT MAKE IT TO THE SEMIS!!--- They are often followers to other peoples theories and have little imagination beyond copieing and pasting tried and true lists. Wouldn't recognize a strong list if does not appear on the net. Not saying the posters on this thread are these things but many are and they are quite vocal.

OP- Have faith in your list. If you are good with a decent list, Ard boys is rock paper scissors. If either you or your list are not good, it is more like paper paper rock. Try not to be the rock!!!!

I placed third in my prelims with three minor victories using Jump Pack Blood Angels that consists of 75 jump pack marines. I will be going to the semis and if I went against this list, he has no where to hide from my turn two charge. I have 7 power fists and a 8 man squad of death company with Lemartes and Dante's preferred enemy. So if i was him i would mech up and use rhinos and predators. See he does not have enough firepower to shoot me to death and no counter charge to beat me in combat. And this is against a blood angel list that not many people like. Imagine what other people will be running at the semis.

Scouts rock in 'ard Boyz. They probably deploy up front in cover and allow his troops to move where needed. Devastators blast things at range. Its pretty simple and because it doesn't have armor, it probably messes over lists that focus on armor denial.

I agree, I think it needs a splash more mobility, but its not "Stinko, population 1".

(i do have my golden ticket, thank you).
Not realy a list i would expect to see past the pre-lims. most lists are running mech everything. im not going to say its a poor list (ive always wanted to see the power of a plasma cannon dev squad at full force. i only have 2 things. 1) i would love to see 2 rinos in this list for some speed, i would expect them to get poped fast but you should be able to get the troops in place. and 2) i would like to see some thing else other then RLs in the tac and dev squads though

Not sure why the response was so negative from some people.I understand it lacks mobility but it more than makes up for it in firepower.The reason for no vehicles is easy since most lists have alot of anti-tank built into them I do not give up the easy kiil points.A turn 2 charge will not happen against this list.Not if deployed correctly.During my prelim games only 2 assaults ever took place and I did both of them to bog down my opponent.Outside of units armed all with power weapons it is very hard to kill 10 marines who never run till they are all dead.And it seems everyone forgets about combat tactics as well.So when you shoot the squad you intend to assault cause 25% casualties ans I voluntarily fall back your squad now has to face every gun in range.So are there any suggestions on how to make this list stronger without adding vehicled that bleed kill points since Rhinos have sucky armor?

Hahaha, at last a marine player after my heart. **** rhinos! I never take ANY vehicles with a rhino base, they are just too vulnerable for my liking and they get taken out really quick. Drop pods, sure.
As for what you've taken in your squads, it sounds workable to me. I don't participate in tournaments, but I do play some pretty competitive players. I usually run lots of bolters, little devastators, basically anti-infantry. Anti tank i take care of with melta bombs in each and EVERY squad, (so much cheaper than power fists which you then allocate to the squads which always end up killed first or on the wrong side of the field) and a plasma pistol for the sergeants in case of MCs. It works against back armour vehicles too, and often the front as well!
I like your list, it has been a while since I've seen someone who has the guts to take an infantry list and I admire that. Good hunting to you sir!

You know now that I look at it, I can see how it COULD work.

I would be curious what 3 foes you beat first round, and what your proposed counters for the hard lists of the semis.

There's an alarmingly low number of dedicated anti-troop weapons, if you fought a horde list I'd fear you'd be overwhelmed.

Calgar, what's his role, he's alone in termi, is that for ds?

What are the scouts armed with?

The only thing that really jumps out at me, is the heavy weapon choices that you've made, I don't nessicarily like foot mounted multi-meltas on tac squad 3, as you could do just as well with another longer range weapon, Plasmacannon or another... missile.

The only OTHER problem I see, is you will have a tough time redeploying if something happens, since everyone is foot mounted, rhinos are pretty decent for what they cost, but if thats not for you, possibly consider getting a ls storm to redeploy the scouts last turn, for an objective grab.

You're probably going to need 3 massacres + in semi's.

I had toyed with the idea of a Calgar Bike List at one point.

7 blood angel jump pack units all deploy up 12 inches in. Then move 12 inches and run ave 3 inches. Then move 12 inches on turn two then charge. That covers average 45 inches. So that leaves you 3 inches of deployment for you to deploy your whole army so that i dont charge on turn two. So with all the firepower you have, you will probably kill 15-20 marines in the two turns if you go first. Which is fine by me. Remember in assault i get to reroll misses to hit within 12 inches of dante. My army is all about multicharging units all at the same time so by the time they are done there is no enemy units left. Not having vehicles makes it even easier for me.

Julnlecs wrote:7 blood angel jump pack units all deploy up 12 inches in. Then move 12 inches and run ave 3 inches. Then move 12 inches on turn two then charge. That covers average 43 inches. So that leaves you 3 inches of deployment for you to deploy your whole army so that i dont charge on turn two. So with all the firepower you have, you will probably kill 15-20 marines in the two turns if you go first. Which is fine by me. Remember in assault i get to reroll misses to hit within 12 inches of dante. My army is all about multicharging units all at the same time so by the time they are done there is no enemy units left. Not having vehicles makes it even easier for me.

Thats actually the list (or similar) that took first at our locals, much to everyone's surprise,

People always whine that the BA codex is useless, but I think 5th gave em a boost that was amazing, you just have to be careful about what you take.

Yeah, BA are pretty amazing when used correctly. However, you forget that not everyone plays blood angels and that there will be weaknesses to every list, regardless of what kind you take. I think the OPs list has a good chance, because no one will be expecting it. It makes a lot of the heavy weapons and tanks some players take useless, and sounds at least competitive. However, I feel it would lose to your BA, and several other intense assault lists.

Nightwatch wrote:However, I feel it would lose to your BA, and several other intense assault lists.

yeah thats why i recommended mech'ing up. It would help a lot against these type of armies.

I have a golden ticket w/a first place finish from around here. We had 18 people at our tournament. I took a 100 infantry model and 14 tank IG list.

Like I asked before what are your scouts armed with? How do you intend to contest or take objectives on the other side of the board?

I wouldn't need a tactica on how to fight that list. It will be outshot by shooty armies and fast dedicated combat armies will eat it. That being said that if your comfortable with the list rock it. Just know that semi's should have much "'Arder" lists than the prelims. Not wanting to bleed KP's is a good thing but doing so at the expense of mobility isn't.

I do love the 4 plasma dev squad and it has worked in our local meta game extremely well.

Julnlecs wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:However, I feel it would lose to your BA, and several other intense assault lists.

yeah thats why i recommended mech'ing up. It would help a lot against these type of armies.

Yes but who willingly conforms to the mech style when everyone else is doing it? What you want is some uselss stuff to get in the way and assault first!

All you have to do is figure out how far the assaulty guys can get on their turn, and then place your sacrificial unit within 12 inches of the maximum movement range your opponent's assaulty units can get. Then put your shooty units on either size so you can blast the heck out of the assault pros before you clog them up in the assault phase. Unfortunately this works best if you have gretchin allies, which I don't think is allowed. Oh well, crazy cheap scouts work too. sell something, perhaps one of the ironclads, and get more scouts! What's more, your opponent probably won't expect you to sacrifice one of your troop squads to his assaulty guys so he won't see it coming.
of course, that's my take. Julnlecs has got a point to, but I'd love to see someone come out on top without meching his army.
Good luck!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and for the mathammer players, the equation is Nonmech army - ironclad + cheap scouts = win!

just annoying you, don't mind me!

What do you do against multiple land raiders with terminators. You pretty much have 3 lascannons to stop them, which are not the most reliable weapons for the job. Your foot slogging melta's are easy to avoid and I'd pretty much get to put my 2 squads of th/ss terminators wherever I want. Same goes for 4-5 battlewagons with a KFF.

I too would be curious as to what you beat in the first round. I think a marine gunline could work but not like this. If it has mobile melta's to pop big threats like LR's and battlewagons and at least one decent counter charge unit I could see it working to some extent. I dont think dreads are reliable as a counter charge unit. Low number of attacks and WS means more often than not they do crap in CC and a good dedicated assault unit will have something to hurt them like a power first or a thunder hammer.

I understand it lacks mobility but it more than makes up for it in firepower.

It really doesn't

A turn 2 charge will not happen against this list. Not if deployed correctly.

I'm sorry, what? You have a bunch of infantry squads with no transports, most turn 2 assault lists can be on the other side of the board by turn 2, there is nothing your list can do to stop a turn 2 assault.

During my prelim games only 2 assaults ever took place and I did both of them to bog down my opponent.

Don't we all wish we played against idiots?

Outside of units armed all with power weapons it is very hard to kill 10 marines who never run till they are all dead.

Not hard enough.

And it seems everyone forgets about combat tactics as well.So when you shoot the squad you intend to assault cause 25% casualties ans I voluntarily fall back your squad now has to face every gun in range.

And if 25% casualties isn't caused?

So are there any suggestions on how to make this list stronger without adding vehicled that bleed kill points since Rhinos have sucky armor?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the second and third rounds of 'Ard Boyz objective missions?

You're going to get destroyed. I admit this might be a decent KP list, but in 2/3 of missions you're screwed. Nobody needs a tactica to beat your list. You almost completely lack meltas, meaning Land Raiders, Battlewagons, Tau Vehicles (if any Tau made if to the semis) etc. all will make you cry when your 3 lascannons fail to even scratch anything and your 2 combi-meltas score a single pen.

Did you even face a single mechdar army? They could have just stayed in their transports all game and been almost completely safe.

Rory- Why so harsh. It will do fine vs some lists and get lit up by others. That is the nature of ard boys.

What list did you use at ard boys? What place did you get? Who did you play? If you are acting so superior...why don't you dazzle us with your standings and army. Yes his list has holes but it fits a nich as do all ard boys lists. He made it this far. Give the guy a break. Try toning down your spite a bit a be helpful not condescending. Let him know where your coming from. I know tact does not exist on the interwebs but you could always attempt it.

My list has 26 KP in it...

First turn I drop 10 kill points in my opponents lap... from one drop pod...

People assumed this list would fail in 'ard Boyz being vanilla marines and wasting so many KPs.

And yet I got two massacers in the prelims (1st round and 3ed round) from this unorthadox and balanced list and moved on to the next round placing 2nd with 61 BPs.

There are a lot of mech lists out there, but because of that I see a lot more of these well planned and executed lists turning the tables on people who are expecting cookie cutter "hard" lists. I'm definately looking forward to the next round and seeing how it pans out for these people.

Good luck to you all.

I'm pretty leery on this list just do to the lack of mobility. If you had some drop pods for some troops OK, but like said earlier I think objective missions could be rough. The one thing I think that's a minor change is on the land speeders. I haven't run any of the new typhoons but I absolutely love the MM/HF combo. I think if you had land speeders with MM that will help neutralize any land raiders. Being able to get side armor on a battle wagon with a typhoon is probably pretty good but to me a MM it a much higher chance of stopping one.

I really think a battlewagon Ork list or nob bikers is gonna give you a hard time.
I think I see why you took Marny though. Doesn't he have something about auto passing or failing morale checks? Making "tactics" a bit better.

If you think Rhinos (at 35 points each) die far too easily, I have an excellent counter-argument:

What dies easier than a squad in a rhino?

Think it over.

(Hint: The same squad without a rhino).

I see arguments and counter arguments and some downd right nay saying.However I am working on a new one.I will post it on another thread hear since this one is getting rather long.Thanks for the advice and please remember I asked for help not insulting comments on how easy it would be for you to beat.

I would welcome fighting vs. a list like this at the semis.

Seer Council Eldar, Mech Vets, Curbulo/Dante Blood Angels, Horde Orks would be very tough match-ups.

Can we assume the scouts are snipers?

MM's would be better in tacticals than the ML's.

Let us know what your 1st rd opponents were playing.

If you do not intend to change anything anyway, why post again at all?

I do intend to change it.I am about to post it right now

Please let us know what lists you played against in the preliminaries.

See my other post with the revamped list.It has the three armies i played against.