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I keep seeing people take plasma pistols, and I don't understand why.
It is a 1-shot plasma gun, it has less than a 50% of killing something at BS3, and around a 50% at BS4, worth 15 points? I think not.
Maybe if you could double tap them, but as it stands you will probably fire them once per game before assaulting, and that's not really worth it, especially on a fleet unit which may end up running instead of shooting.

Higher str. You can pop a light transport if you angle it just right to hit the rear armor. At least, that's what I do.

Yeah, my Eldar skimmers don't like plasma. If there's no other solution, getting your (say) assault Marines around to rear armor can help make them a threat against an enemy that might otherwise be elusive.

Yeah, they are great for softening tyranid monsterous creatures before assaulting with your zerkers.

well, because it is a viable slot which only sergeants and characters and some others can use (in the IG). It can add additional AP punch to meltas or to a flamer unit, and since the pointage has not changed from the last dex (unlike plasma guns, which has increased) then it is still a viable option...

Plasma pistols are worthless. What's going to kill more over the game, two plasma pistols in a berzerker squad, or another berzerker? The answer is choice two, because he not only comes with a bolt pistol, which is a perfectly serviceable weapon, but he adds a wound and more attacks to a unit as well.

Granted, you can't always take an extra model, but the point is the same, for 15 points, they simply don't add the damage capability to make it worthwhile.

Mainly for me, it's because modelling every Sergeant or Lieutenant the same is, well, boring, so it's nice to have a different gun.

For the time being, I do not use any PP's. I would however consider them because (in no particular order of importance) a) I think they look ace, b) they come on the IG command squad sprue, c) a PP sets my colonel or captain apart from his subordinates, d) they add another low-AP shot, which I find can come in handy in melta squads having to fight MC's or similar units where three potential wounds would still leave them out on a limb.

Besides all the negative criticism above it can also kill your own model... that is way too many cons!

i think they only make sense for a BS4 or BS5 model thats going to assault high toughness models. or a model that is graced with ridiculous luck. i have one such Sargent model and he used his PP to destroy an immolator with a hit to rear armor. 90% of the time they arent worth their points. and IIRC you cant double tap pistols anymore.

It is hard to beat an assault with 4 plasma pistols [ Chaplin + Sergeant + 2 Assault Marines] then you follow that up with an assault, this usually “Breaks the Target unless you are dealing with Invulnerable Saves. [ It is 5 PP with a Blodclaw Pack with Wolf Guard Leader and a Wolf Priest.]

This, but in pistol form. Maybe after killing a Carnifex by himself, Commissar style.


But, if the squad gets down to just the sergeant it can be even more useful then. I've had one sergeant run around the board with only a Bolt Pistol. He managed to wound the Avatar and lock a Hive Tyrant in CC for about 2-3 turns after it, but if it was a Plasma pistol he might have done a bit more damage.

But, it's easy to see what side I'm on for Plasma guns and Pistols, the above is my only SM with a Gets Hot weapon (Besides the MotF's twin-linked one in the full servo harness, but it's twin-linked afterall ) in the army and 4/5 times he blows up. Enough to actually make the slight conversion worth it; as he is most likely just going to kill himself at some point in the match.

The Plasma Pistol is useful, just most of the time it's usefulness will come as a surprise. Although after thinking about it I might just give a sergeant one afterall

I hate the fact you could die from it. Especially with my (insert profane obscenity here) rolls. I just know I'll roll two 1's in a row. Plus, fifteen points is the cost of a power weapon. I'll take the power weapon any day of the week. Fifteen points is a HK missile, fifteen points is extra armor (though the odds are similar: one in six chance of Extra Armor making a use of itself, one in six chance of PP overheating), fifteen points is a MM+meltabombs for a Tac squad, the list goes on. 15 Points can be better spent, by far. At least in a spehss mahren armay.

Rico.

Rico wrote:fifteen points is a MM+meltabombs for a Tac squad, the list goes on. 15 Points can be better spent, by far. At least in a spehss mahren armay.

Rico.

I really hope you aren't paying 10 points for your Multi-Meltas...

Simple. For the lols.

But it's also a 2/3 chance of hitting without getting hot. There can never be enough Str 7 AP 2 firepower in your army, IMO. Especially if you ever face Necrons, Plague Marines, Marines in general, Tyranid MCs, Death Company, Terminators, etc etc etc.

It's a class of weapon that can overpower even heavy infantry and light armor. Who *wouldn't* want one of those in a squad?

Personally, I love my Plasma Spam Tactical squad-

Tactical x 10, Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol + Powersword (215) w Razorback w LC/TL Plasmagun + EA (90) = 305 for the package

I've dropped more Blood Angels than I could ever count with this loadout, and I credit at least 20% of the units damage to the Plasma Pistol. My plasmagunner has notoriously bad luck (and is still totally worth it every time), but my Seargent is a dead-eye.

Rico wrote:I hate the fact you could die from it. Especially with my (insert profane obscenity here) rolls. I just know I'll roll two 1's in a row. Plus, fifteen points is the cost of a power weapon. I'll take the power weapon any day of the week. Fifteen points is a HK missile, fifteen points is extra armor (though the odds are similar: one in six chance of Extra Armor making a use of itself, one in six chance of PP overheating), fifteen points is a MM+meltabombs for a Tac squad, the list goes on. 15 Points can be better spent, by far. At least in a spehss mahren armay.

Rico.

I think Spehss Mahreens are the only ones who should consider it. If you have a tac squad in a rhino/razorback that extra short-range firepower can be extremely helpful. I think on any character PP are extremely viable. Unless you're a Chaplain or a Libby you've got a higher BS (thus hitting on 2+), you probably have a better save (in case it overheats), and if for some reason you take a wound, you have another one.

I take them on Wolf Scouts in my Space Wolves army; they're worth taking in that situation, as Operate Behind Enemy Lines makes those shots count a whole lot more, and they can't take a Plasma Gun or Melta Gun in those slots.

I tried to use a few back when I played Chaos in early 4e, but couldn't find a place to use them. Modeled up a CSM squad that had two Plasma Pistols, but used them in exactly two games before realizing that I'd *always* rather have either a Plasma Gun or a Melta Gun.

I've yet to find another situation where they're worth taking, but your mileage may vary.

I take a bunch with my Sisters.

Since they're Mech Sisters, and they depend on unloading as much firepower as possible the moment they step out of the Rhino, a PP is a useful upgrade. Might be a little overcosted for what they do, but I think it averages out in the long run. Pop one Rhino, and it's paid for itself for 3-4 games.

On assault troops, I tend to agree, just take more assault troops. But you can only fit so many Sisters in a Rhino, and they really need to get as much as they can from their shooting.

I used to take PP's for my 'zerkers when they were a 5 point upgrade. I balked when they became 10 points in the 3.5 Chaos dex, and I certainly wouldn't take them at 15 points in the newest book. :(

I have good luck so far with Plasma’s in general [Knock on wood elves], but only with marines. There is a 1in 6 chance that, yes one of my Plasma Shots will “Get Hot”, but then there is a 4 in 6 chance that it will do no damage, and if it one of my command squads, I can ignore them on a 4+. With my Space Woofs , a Runic Charm lets me reroll the failed armor save. So I say they are woth it.

I have one squad of plague marines with 2 plasma guns and they constantly kill themselves. In fact in one recent game they both died turn one to overheating (keep in mind that's rolling ones, failing a 3+ and a FNP). They CAN kill things, they just end up killing themselves alot too. Especially plasma guns as the two shots really add up.

JGrand wrote:I have one squad of plague marines with 2 plasma guns and they constantly kill themselves. In fact in one recent game they both died turn one to overheating (keep in mind that's rolling ones, failing a 3+ and a FNP). They CAN kill things, they just end up killing themselves alot too. Especially plasma guns as the two shots really add up.

I once lost a game playing the old Chaos vs. Space Marines due to having Terminators Deep Strike into a "weak" flank of mine. I had four Plasma Guns I could bring to bear the next turn, did so, and all four gunners died do to Gets Hot.

One of my Plague Marine sergeants totes one, along with a power fist - the synergy with the other two plasma guns in the squad usually works pretty well. It's as good a use of an extra 15 points as anything else, I suppose.

I think the real utility of it is to give a unit a powerful shot, and not take away the extra attack in close combat; being a pistol. I used to use them on my Assault Marines before they were 15 points apiece. Now I use flamers, but that's also because Orks and Nids started showing up in my area. =)

My Blood Angels friend goes all out, giving the seargent and two marines Plasma pistols. He has great luck with them, and it's actually kind of disheartening to have a squad drop down and shoot a vehicle in the rear with 3 Str 7 shots. Not overwhelming, but it makes me keep my back doors tucked in. And, loosing 3 marines to AP fire before the charge means even more advantage for him when the chainswords start hacking.

I would think that the entire reason to take Plasma pistols would be to pop transports so that the attacking unit may assault the troops inside. To me, that is the entire point of the plasma pistol. Adding another hth model won't help your chances at popping a transport to be able to charge the occupants, and neither do about any of the "points would be better spent here" suggestions posted in the thread.

A BS4 plasma pistol against an AV10 open-topped transport has only about a 20% chance to kill the vehicle... not exactly good odds against even the weakest vehicles in the game.

If you're taking plasma pistols to pop transports, you're doing it wrong.

A BS4 plasma pistol against an AV10 open-topped transport has only about a 20% chance to kill the vehicle... not exactly good odds against even the weakest vehicles in the game.

True, but don't totally dismiss 20%. In a world of BS4, a single shot never has more than 66% chance to do anything. So, while 20% isn't great, even the best options tend to be no better than 50%.

Even Meltabombs on a stationary vehicle won't kill it 100% of the time.

People aren't taking Plasma Pistols to kill vehicles... They're taking them for much the same reason one takes a Power Fist: Because if you have an S7AP2 shot, it means a lot of units that could laugh at your shooting can't do that anymore.

I agree, 15 points is a bit much for most any unit to bother with them, but even at that price point, it's not at all hard for them to pay for themselves. Get one Terminator ever third game, or a Rhino, or put a wound on a TMC, etc. etc. Not hard to get the cost back.

When you are spending 250-300 points on a squad what is another 45 points?

Given the gets hot rule, its evil to give plasma pistols to anyone BS3 T3.