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The IG like them hot!!! No really for the IG I consider them since guardsmen are cheaper, and the PP adds to the weapons spam they can field..for the IG, the more guns the better....

For my marines, I will give them to characters with more than 1 wound, who usually have a better BS too....

Plasma pistols are to expensive these days and with guard that get hot usually means a dead serg which means ld7.

Anpu42 wrote:When you are spending 250-300 points on a squad what is another 45 points?

Another 45 points is:
A terminator or ogryn
2/3ds of a predator
9 guardsmen
Almost 3 space marines.
A razorback or rhino with upgrades
Terminator armor for your captain.

Its also a good weapon if you want to give you captain a ranged weapon but still want to give him an extra attack

Canonness Rory wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:When you are spending 250-300 points on a squad what is another 45 points?

Another 45 points is:
A terminator or ogryn
2/3ds of a predator
9 guardsmen
Almost 3 space marines.
A razorback or rhino with upgrades
Terminator armor for your captain.

You sure told him, I would like to add four melta guns.

Plasma pistols are a luxury buy for those units that can't take combi-meltas. They're not bad, but they aren't exactly cost effective either. What they do create, however, is a very high potential. A plasma shot can do a lot of damage: wound an MC, pop a light vehicle, ignore 2+ armor, get past Feel no Pain.

IMO building a unit around plasma pistols is a problem, but realziing you have 30 pts left and tossing a couple of PPs on a unit isn't a bad thing by a long shot.

Don't forget that IG PPs are only 10pts, and are BS4 aside from infantry platoons (even platoon commanders are BS4 now).

Use the extra points to upgrade a sponsoon on a leman russ, remember we play 40k a game of inches every point counts.

I mostly use PP in Assault Squads and ICs. I am also a DA player and I don’t get Flamers with my Assault Squads. That and most of my opponents are Nids , Orks and SMs so the S-7 AP-2 comes in real handy. They are also really good for those multi-wounds T-3 Models .

CKO wrote:Use the extra points to upgrade a sponsoon on a leman russ, remember we play 40k a game of inches every point counts.

Sponsons on a russ restricts it's movement and costs 20 pts for even Heavy Bolters. A plasma pistol only costs 10pts and can be fired any time meltas can fire or plasmas can double tap. I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but I think adding two plasma pistols to melta vets can often be just as useful as slapping a single pair of HB sponsons on a russ.

IG are spoiled in ways to spend the last 10-30 pts. Not every army has that capacity.

My problem with PP is that they tend to be the same points across the board. A guardsman [BS3] shouldn't pay the same premium price a chaos lord [BS5] does. I understand it "has the same destructive potential" but they don't get much use out of it.

Then again, GW charges orks less for flamers than any other race because they're BS2.......so I guess I shouldn't hope for it making sense.

Spellbound wrote:My problem with PP is that they tend to be the same points across the board. A guardsman [BS3] shouldn't pay the same premium price a chaos lord [BS5] does. I understand it "has the same destructive potential" but they don't get much use out of it.

They don't. IG pay 10pts, MEQs pay 15. The problem is that IG don't' exactly suffer from a lack of special weapons, so the PP doesn't get used as much. On top of that, most good CC weapons are two handed or don't benefit from a pistol (fist, t-hammer, daemon weapon, lightning claws, relic blade), so the combi-melta is the better option nearly all the time.

The only place I can see Plasma Pistols getting some use is a few on a Khorne Berserker squad. They don't get weapons to kill transports, but a couple pistols to cut open that transport is worth the lack of an extra body. Other than that, since they are taken on the expensive Champions, making them even more expensive while giving them a chance to kill themselves, it isn't worth it.

the only army I really recommend the plasma pistols for is the sisters of battle (MEQ).
When armed properly, some units can unleash 5-6 melta/plasma shells in a salvo. With units like that I throw in as much ap2 ammo as i can fit.

Example:
My seraphim unit backed by my jumpack cannoness close by, lets out 4 st7-8 ap2 shots at bs4 (1/2 are twin linked) the turn they charge.
After combat, they hit-and-run and repeat the process over, and over, and over. The vet could die, but over all I can shoot that plasma pistol every turn after the first.

I spose PP's are OK for Berzerkers but theyre S5 when charging anyway and they get lots more attacks against vehicles cos lotsa transports have back armour 10 or 11. Also Krak grenades for free.

I woulda thought theyd be better for killing 2+ units rather than vehicles. Thats not what zerkers are for really.

Well the problem is, you just charged and killed the transport. Great, now you get Rapid Fired by everyone inside. If I ran Berserkers, I'd run them with 3 plasma pistols. That is their only tool to let them take care of transports, allowing them to do their job.

DarkHound wrote:Well the problem is, you just charged and killed the transport. Great, now you get Rapid Fired by everyone inside. If I ran Berserkers, I'd run them with 3 plasma pistols. That is their only tool to let them take care of transports, allowing them to do their job.

Or you could just blow up the transports with other units that are actually good at it, allowing your berzerkers to do their job for less points.

willydstyle wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Well the problem is, you just charged and killed the transport. Great, now you get Rapid Fired by everyone inside. If I ran Berserkers, I'd run them with 3 plasma pistols. That is their only tool to let them take care of transports, allowing them to do their job.

Or you could just blow up the transports with other units that are actually good at it, allowing your berzerkers to do their job for less points.

That's always a good policy., but 30pts worth of back up can't exactly hurt, particularly since they also help against those target zerkers struggle against (2+ saves).

I MUST have as many plasma pistols for my assualt squads as possible. As in most cases they can't charge when they deepstrike, these weapons are the only IMMEDIATE threat to the enemy. Also, it helps even the odds against heavily armoured foes, or even light vehichles, where bolt pistols would be useless.

And they are a pretty cool peice of randomness.

Okay, now I've got to find a way to include a couple more PP's in my list...

I would advise AGAINST using them as guard. My tallarn are pretty much ALL plasma, and have killed themselves more than the enemy.

willydstyle wrote:Plasma pistols are worthless. What's going to kill more over the game, two plasma pistols in a berzerker squad, or another berzerker? The answer is choice two, because he not only comes with a bolt pistol, which is a perfectly serviceable weapon, but he adds a wound and more attacks to a unit as well.

Granted, you can't always take an extra model, but the point is the same, for 15 points, they simply don't add the damage capability to make it worthwhile.

Unless of course you run into something that S4 (5 on charge) can't reliably hurt either because they have 2+ saves or high toughness.

Diversity in weapons and strengths have their place.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Diversity in weapons and strengths have their place.

QFT.

Which is why I take more than just berzerkers in my army. BTW, I've never had a problem taking down 2+ saves with them either... causing 20 wounds against WS4, T4 models BEFORE the power fist swings tends to drop some fools, even against terminators. Meganobs on the other hand...

willydstyle wrote:Which is why I take more than just berzerkers in my army. BTW, I've never had a problem taking down 2+ saves with them either... causing 20 wounds against WS4, T4 models BEFORE the power fist swings tends to drop some fools, even against terminators. Meganobs on the other hand...

Are you arguing that PPs are never useful in berzerker squads, never worth their points in berzeker squads, or merely that there are generally better places to spend the points? I don't think the first one is ever true, the second is pretty easily shown to be false, and I agree with you on the third. I just think that it's possible in certain builds and in certain meta games that they become cost effective.

willydstyle wrote:A BS4 plasma pistol against an AV10 open-topped transport has only about a 20% chance to kill the vehicle... not exactly good odds against even the weakest vehicles in the game.

If you're taking plasma pistols to pop transports, you're doing it wrong.

Han Solo wrote:Never tell me the odds...

Polonius wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Which is why I take more than just berzerkers in my army. BTW, I've never had a problem taking down 2+ saves with them either... causing 20 wounds against WS4, T4 models BEFORE the power fist swings tends to drop some fools, even against terminators. Meganobs on the other hand...

Are you arguing that PPs are never useful in berzerker squads, never worth their points in berzeker squads, or merely that there are generally better places to spend the points? I don't think the first one is ever true, the second is pretty easily shown to be false, and I agree with you on the third. I just think that it's possible in certain builds and in certain meta games that they become cost effective.

Sure, a couple of extra str 7 ap 2 shots can help your berzerker squad do better... but at a points cost, which subtracts from the rest of your army. So I think that what I'm saying is that there are usually better things to spend the points on. I suppose that at lower points levels, where you're just not capable of taking the other units, then plasma pistols could be worth their points, but then maybe you shouldn't be playing with such a limited unit in lower points cost games.

My Wolf Scouts take them too, two S7 and one S8 melta shots on the rear of that Leman Russ that sat there dishing pie at you all game is better than one S8 (particularly because my melta-gunner Scout apparently went to the Star Wars Stormtrooper School for Accurate Shooting). My Wolf Priest has one too, but it came on the model, the current Wolf Priest / Ulrik the Slayer figure, so I was stuck with it. At least on the BS5 Wolf Priest with his 2+ save, it has racked up a solid tally on his way in to bash heads.

I wouldn't take them in anything less than a BS4 unit, that's for sure. The lower chance to hit compared that annoying blow yourself up bit just doesn't make it worthwhile.

I think plasma pistols are just too expensive for what they do. I will bring a couple to a game occasionally when I need to fill out points, or make a super killy unit of Wolf Guard.

for my wolf scouts I tend to just run meltabombs, but Ive been toying with power weapons to make them more versatile.

Certainly they are too expensive for what they do. The only reason I'd consider taking a few on Khorne Berserkers is because they have nothing else to ensure the transport dies. While I'm certain 3 Plasma Pistols won't kill a transport, I'm not certain a couple Lascannons will. The lack of a couple of bodies to put that in my favour is worth it for that, since it is the deciding factor of whether or not the Berserkers will die a horrible death or demolish a squad. I've looked around and there really isn't any other reason to take them at their price. Maybe if they were 10 points, and definately if they were 5, but not when they are the same price as their big brother.

Demogerg wrote:I think plasma pistols are just too expensive for what they do. I will bring a couple to a game occasionally when I need to fill out points, or make a super killy unit of Wolf Guard.

for my wolf scouts I tend to just run meltabombs, but Ive been toying with power weapons to make them more versatile.

see what you did we went from my plasma pistol has did this contest to talking tactics again shame on you.