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My friend and I ...(both new to 40k) have started up. he wants to run 3 basilisk in his ig army. I'm running chaos SM. Looking at their rules they sound like they could rip a chaos army apart at good range. Any ideas on what a good counter to them is while I'm in the process of building my chaos SM force?

A Termicide squad might be worth trying. 3-man Chaos Terminator squad with 3xCombi-Melta and a Chainfist.

Deepstrike them and you should kill one at the very least and depending on the return fire perhaps survive to assault a second.

Depends what else he is running.

But you could consider getting a load of rhinos to put people into. If he is wasting shots getting the rhinos popped it'll tame him a little for the first few turns. If you had a couple of lascannon havocs in rhinos (bit of a waste) they would be able to take out one each turn.

Termicide squads / metla raptors are tempting. Going to obliterators (MoN) could be better, depending on the situation: standing off and shooting or deep striking shooting and assaulting. Infiltrating any of these three units (either via luck or Huron) would get the better weapons closer to the tanks in the first few turns.

Heldrake are always a good option.

 Jasper wrote:

But you could consider getting a load of rhinos to put people into. If he is wasting shots getting the rhinos popped it'll tame him a little for the first few turns. If you had a couple of lascannon havocs in rhinos (bit of a waste) they would be able to take out one each turn.

I would avoid the rhino trap. Guard packs lots of lascannons and autocannons. They wreck your rhinos easily then your troops are clustered together and the basilisk shells land right on top wiping the unit.

 Jasper wrote:

Heldrake are always a good option.

Works but takes too long, as they cannot vector strike things on the table edge the first turn they come in.




Termicide is great. As said 3 combi meltas and then either a powerfist or chainfist(really a powerfist is ok against guards AV10 rear) You land, kill 1-2 in a squadron and then he has to commit a lot of fire to take them down or he loses another one next turn.

Land raiders are ok. Put some light assault troops in a land raider with dirge caster and rush it towards his lines. Try to keep the meltaguns away and you have a durrable plastfrom. Kind of expensive though.




How is he deploying them? In a corner behind BLOS terrain?

So far hes pretty stuck on the concept of 3 basilisks..he hasn't figured out he rest yet.

I'm thinking maybe 3 platoons of guardsman, just a huge amount of men to kill rolling across the board with the the basilisks raining down hell from the back...not a bad plan to be honest

Ignore them, their 36 inch minimum range makes it hard to really use that nasty gun.

Kai wrote:
Ignore them, their 36 inch minimum range makes it hard to really use that nasty gun.

Minimum range =/= cannot fire. It would be no different than him hidding them behind LOS blocking terrain.

36" minium range now means that the gun can't fire directly if within the minium range but firing barrage is far better anyways.

Basilisks have really weak side Armour of 10 so anything that can manouver can cause them problems.

Raptors with 2x Plasma. Better than Melta on weaker armour and more shots.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Raptors with 2x Plasma. Better than Melta on weaker armour and more shots.

you could also use terminators with 3x combi plasma then. Cheaper, more shots and harder to dislodge when they come down.

It also doenst use your super nice FA slots

Sinji wrote:
36" minium range now means that the gun can't fire directly if within the minium range but firing barrage is far better anyways.

There is no option to fire without using the barrage rules, you always have to. The only difference is whether or not you can use your BS.

What about a lord on Steed of Slaanesh, outlfanking with some melta/plasma? You could run him with bikes, raptors, chosen, anything really. Bikes or raptors would compliment his speed better, but you'd get more shots with the chosen. A large block of fearless marines is also not to be sniffed at - 2 special weapons plus 1 or 2 combi weapons takes care of one basilisk the turn they come on, and a charge takes the other 1-2 the next turn.

Termicide, as mentioned is totally viable...

You could ally with daemons and deep strike a few cheap squads of troops right into his backfield. If the rest of his army is moving forward, he has to choose to back up and deal with that, or keep pressing forward. Even better, if you can engage him in midfield turn 2 and let the lesser daemons chew through his backfield.

It depends on what the theme of your army is. If you're partial to one god over the others, or have a particular playstyle. Just pick a couple of solutions and apply them in tandem - raptors + bikes, outflanking + deepstrike, etc.

Also - SPAWN! Battlecannons won't ID them, and at most you'll lose one or two per turn from shooting. You could outflank them or just run them up the board.

Terminators,drop pods,Raptors and maybe a defiler.

How do you outflank spawn??

I agree with the Termicide suggestion. 3 MoN Terminators with 3 combi melta and a chainfist are about 135pts. They will mop a basalisk when they arrive and then cause headaches as long as they are on the board.

I also agree that Bikes with MoN could be pretty awesome. at about 100pts for three T6 3+ save models with two melta guns, they could be the ticket. Fast, tough and versatile.

 sennacherib wrote:
How do you outflank spawn??

I agree with the Termicide suggestion. 3 MoN Terminators with 3 combi melta and a chainfist are about 135pts. They will mop a basalisk when they arrive and then cause headaches as long as they are on the board.

I also agree that Bikes with MoN could be pretty awesome. at about 100pts for three T6 3+ save models with two melta guns, they could be the ticket. Fast, tough and versatile.

3 terminators with 3 combi melta, 2 power mauls and 1 powerfist do the job just as well and save you some points.

The bikes have the problem that the basilisk can kill them easily.

Bikes with melta weapons.. Anything that deepstrikes or outflanks, drop-pods... Etc, basically, anything that can get into that 36" bubble in the first couple of turns, other than that, all I can recommend is to stay in cover x)

Heldrakes solve all CSM problems that aren't Land Raiders. You don't need to Vector Strike the first turn you come on the board, either. You just need to move on 36" and fire the baleflamer at the AV10 side of an open top Basilisk. Then, next turn, you pivot, vector strike the next one, and flamer the third. By then, your other two heldrakes should be on the board and you pretty much win.

I wish I were kidding.

The Termicide people mention is a great option. Two Squads of 3 with combi meltas are 230 pts total. Termies glance on 6 against AV 10, so I'd suggest avoiding the 20+ pt Chainfist. Just go glance the other ones until he's forced to deal with you.

Another option is a Lord with MoS and a Steed. They gain outflank and acute senses, so attach to a unit of bikers or spawn and come in turn two or three and silence the big guns. It also provides a Chaos lord in the back field, but is pricier.

Final thought, prepare for Vendatta's. They will be there. Aegis Defense against IG should be an autotake, with QuadGun. Add a squad of Havocs with Autocannons, also 115 ironically, for a cheap brick of killer anti air.

If he runs 2 Vendi's, add one guy with skyfire missles, or attach a Sorceror w/ Lv 3, roll for invis to get a 2++ invuln that can fire at 2 flyers a turn. Also great for taking out Chimeras.

Key Anti IG Squads:
Sorc w/ Lv 3
5 Havocs w/ Autocannons, maybe a skyfire missle.
Aegis w/ Quadgun

3 Termis w/ 3 combi Meltas

Lord in Term. Armor w/ Oblit retinue x3

Lord on Steed w/ MoS, BoE, Spawn or Biker retinue

Good Luck!

Running mech isn't actually that bad of an idea. Basilisks don't have much to say to rhinos, and are plenty capable of missing clustered infantry. Otherwise, if you're running a foot list, your best defence is to learn what 2" coherency means.

cod3x wrote:
The Termicide people mention is a great option. Two Squads of 3 with combi meltas are 230 pts total. Termies glance on 6 against AV 10, so I'd suggest avoiding the 20+ pt Chainfist. Just go glance the other ones until he's forced to deal with you.

with power mauls(free) they glance on 4 and pen on 5 and 6.
with a power fist(7pts) they glance on 2 and pen on 3,4,5,6.

The chainfist is really there for walkers and landraiders, so probably not important vs IG.

 Ailaros wrote:
learn what 2" coherency means.

This, oh 1000 times this. Hug cover and sit at 2" coherency and those 3 basilisks will really have trouble killing things before your terminators deep strike and wreck them.
I'd even recommend putting maces on the terminators. Not only are they quite easily going to be able to wreck a basilisk with 3 str:6 attacks on the charge, but also they'll cut through IG like butter, but without having to pay for the powerfist.

I agree with Exergy. Terminators are the way forwards. Bassilisks carry an AP3 large blast. Terminatorss have a 2+ save. They can also get close faster than anything else you'll fied, don't use an FA slot, and will remain annoying to the Guard while the're there. Their price works very nicely for them too.

Just be careful trying to rely on deep strikers. As a Guard Player they are one of my biggest threats and I have learned to bubble wrap keeping melta more than 12" becomes easy after awhile.

I've never had that much of a problem with the bassy

S9 AP3 is painful- but not always accurate. It's on an AV12 open topped (? iirc) vehicle, with AV10 sides. The most success I've had vs the bassy has been lascannons, usually oblits, in the side if possible. It's a chimera- and open topped Chimera. Do you need to DS terminators to kill Chimera's? I kill them with havocs, oblits and preds at range =\

It's when you come up against S8 AP3 plates on AV14 bodies that you need that DS melta/AT unit.

 Jihallah wrote:
I've never had that much of a problem with the bassy

S9 AP3 is painful- but not always accurate. It's on an AV12 open topped (? iirc) vehicle, with AV10 sides. The most success I've had vs the bassy has been lascannons, usually oblits, in the side if possible. It's a chimera- and open topped Chimera. Do you need to DS terminators to kill Chimera's? I kill them with havocs, oblits and preds at range =\

It's when you come up against S8 AP3 plates on AV14 bodies that you need that DS melta/AT unit.

I maybe be wrong, but the termicide advice was probably meant incase he's playing someone who's shooting at him out of LOS. All the suggestions you've mentioned are great, if you can see them.

Split units over multi-level ruins if they need to hold ground. Barrage weapons can't even hit units under a ruin's roof, whereas normal blasts are limited to a single floor. Combine that with a better than normal cover save, and it is really hard to blast people out of ruins.

Thanks for all the input guys....sounds like the termicides with combi meltas and powerfistsor power mauls are the way to go here then.

Do I read right when i see that basilisk have a minimum 36 inch range. does that mean they cannot fire if a unit is less than 36 away from them?

Id like a hell-drake but qt 60$ + a shot I'm loathe to buy one. Though I am converting a epyon gundam to act as one. I'm sure it wont fly ay my lgs but with a friend at my house I don't think hell care.

 rayphoton wrote:
Thanks for all the input guys....sounds like the termicides with combi meltas and powerfistsor power mauls are the way to go here then.

Do I read right when i see that basilisk have a minimum 36 inch range. does that mean they cannot fire if a unit is less than 36 away from them?

Id like a hell-drake but qt 60$ + a shot I'm loathe to buy one. Though I am converting a epyon gundam to act as one. I'm sure it wont fly ay my lgs but with a friend at my house I don't think hell care.

If a target is farther than 36", you minus the firer's bs from the scatter role. If the target is closer than 36" it's full scatter, no subtracting the firer's bs. That's it. No more, no less.

Thats only of you have LoS and if you do the closest guys die first. If you fire as barrage its always full scatter and the guys closest to the hole die first or side AV for vehicles.

Sinji wrote:
Thats only of you have LoS and if you do the closest guys die first. If you fire as barrage its always full scatter and the guys closest to the hole die first or side AV for vehicles.

No. You always take the barrage shot from the centre of the blast. There is no choice between firing as a barrage weapon or not a barrage weapon. Only indirectly or directly.