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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 21:56:48
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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First of all, yes, I do. I just read an earlier thread and felt that I have to step forth.
EDIT: I NEVER SELL RECAST MINIS. STATING IT IN ADVANCE MAY PROVE USEFUL
I've been making fairly good quality resin copies of miniatures sometimes. This you may think morally unacceptable criminal behaviour. I think it is not.
Usually I buy stuff on eBay; nearly always older OOP miniatures (generally I dislike 6th edition), I strip them, sometimes copy them and paint them. That is more or less all there is to it, since I don't play (I know, I know), and never sell my stuff (few were given to visiting small boys (who tend to destroy them rather quickly, as resin is more brittle). Most of minis end up in the basement in boxes. Do I feel I'm doing something wrong? Not at all. And I give you my reasons.
1) I only copy older stuff that is not available from GW any longer, and I have no chance to buy from them. Buying on eBay generates no profit for GW, as they are not star football players after whom the new team must pay royalty to the ex team. When you buy an item from GW it ceases to generate profit for them, that's why they keep on coming out with new editions.
2) This leads to my second argument: in order to do something even mildly criminal, one have to cause at least some damage. What damage do I cause GW? I buy new stuff as everyone else, I don't copy it - or I would not, even if I liked them. I copy old stuff I like and what is no longer available, so I don't cause GW any damage for copying obsolete, discontinued or old minies for personal use which includes merely painting and no wargaming.
3) Copying is part of the hobby for me, like creating my own decals. I like to make the perfect mold, I liked designing and building a homemeade pressure pot from a discarded pressure cooker and junk, I like to cast and to de-flesh my minis, even if it sounds obscene.
I just wanted to share this, now shoot, moralists.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:58:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:00:16
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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What?
Sorry... what I meant was HUH???
I suppose you didn't say you are selling them (I could have missed something) but if that is the case then what is the problem?
GW could care less if you re-cast small stuff, even some large stuff, as in not an entire army that you give to a friend... ahem... is just fine.
I simply don't understand why you think this is such a big deal, unless you are selling stuff... then your just dumb for posting this here. You might as well go on Youtube if you feel like you can get away with stealing directly from GW.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:04:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:00:57
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
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Well, thank you for your first post confessions.
I don't mold whole copies of items, but I have cast parts I can use to make extra copies. Example: Empire Mortar/Cannon set. It comes with both, why not make both?
Basically, don't sell your stuff you've casted and you should be fine. Otherwise, you're posting to save your soul from GW, which already owns it.
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No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:02:22
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Aferventus8 wrote:
2) This leads to my second argument: in order to do something even mildly criminal, one have to cause at least some damage. What damage do I cause GW? I buy new stuff as everyone else, I don't copy it - or I would not, even if I liked them. I copy old stuff I like and what is no longer available, so I don't cause GW any damage for copying obsolete, discontinued or old minies for personal use which includes merely painting and no wargaming.
First of all , shame on you.
2nd , shame on you for not realizing that its harming people ^
A Hobby is as much of a collection as anything else , how else can you justify paying $60 for a box of plastic.
When some thing goes OOP , the value of the item that people collect will change. Reacasting it will be directly damaging the value of the oop item.
So yes , you are directly hurting both GW and their customer even when copying OOP item ,
shame on you again for not realizing this.
And shame on you for the 4th time to think "Buying on eBay generates no profit for GW" <--- Now think hard why this is . You disgust me.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:10:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:04:21
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
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Hmm, but isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery?
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No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:05:38
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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Imitation of my foot in his... never mind.
I make my online art available without stupid watermarks because I could care less if people want to have the filed, more power to them.
What really gets my goat is an underlying assumption that you can just take yesterdays art and sell it as your own, it is simply ludicrous to think that isn't an insult to the artist. This isn't standard art, they are products DESIGNED to be sold by a company. I have a general disdain for replica art, but the artists make no claim to the actual creation, nor do the companies that sell miniaturized versions (man... you suck so much gaudy stuff company...).
If I were to make a serious piece and sell it via mold, I would be incredibly angry if I found someone taking my design as their own. It really has nothing to do with money (well... of course it does in the long run) it is a matter of professional respect. Downright theft of the worst kind. Money is fleeting and so is my hard work apparently. Essentially you are saying that you made it so you can make the profit of it just as much as I can.
BOLLOCKS!!!
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:13:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:14:18
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Wrexasaur wrote:What?
Sorry... what I meant was HUH???
I suppose you didn't say you are selling them (I could have missed something) but if that is the case then what is the problem?
GW could care less if you re-cast small stuff, even some large stuff, as in not an entire army that you give to a friend... ahem... is just fine.
I simply don't understand why you think this is such a big deal, unless you are selling stuff... then your just dumb for posting this here. You might as well go on Youtube if you feel like you can get away with stealing directly from GW.
Well, I kinda accidentally bumped into the earlier thread, and it made me think of aspects nobody mentioned. And of course I sell nothing re-cast. I sell a lot of GW stuff I can get cheap on eBay as the prices are huge on the secondary market in my country, those are all genuine - at least I think so.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:14:24
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Wrexasaur wrote:Imitation of my foot in his... never mind.
I make my online art available without stupid watermarks because I could care less if people want to have the filed, more power to them.
What really gets my goat is an underlying assumption that you can just take yesterdays art and sell it as your own, it is simply ludicrous to think that isn't an insult to the artist. This isn't standard art, they are products DESIGNED to be sold by a company. I have a general disdain for replica art, but the artists make no claim to the actual creation, nor do the companies that sell miniaturized versions (man... you suck so much gaudy stuff company...).
If I were to make a serious piece and sell it via mold, I would be incredibly angry if I found someone taking my design as their own. It really has nothing to do with money (well... of course it does in the long run) it is a matter of professional respect. Downright theft of the worst kind. Money is fleeting and so is my hard work apparently. Essentially you are saying that you made it so you can make the profit of it just as much as I can.
BOLLOCKS!!!
Well OP is either trolling , or doesnt know how economy works.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:22:05
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
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Uriels_Flame wrote:Hmm, but isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery?
And rape is just a way of showing how much you love the person on the receiving end.
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:22:14
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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LunaHound wrote:Aferventus8 wrote:
2) This leads to my second argument: in order to do something even mildly criminal, one have to cause at least some damage. What damage do I cause GW? I buy new stuff as everyone else, I don't copy it - or I would not, even if I liked them. I copy old stuff I like and what is no longer available, so I don't cause GW any damage for copying obsolete, discontinued or old minies for personal use which includes merely painting and no wargaming.
First of all , shame on you.
2nd , shame on you for not realizing that its harming people ^
A Hobby is as much of a collection as anything else , how else can you justify paying $60 for a box of plastic.
When some thing goes OOP , the value of the item that people collect will change. Reacasting it will be directly damaging the value of the oop item.
So yes , you are directly hurting both GW and their customer even when copying OOP item ,
shame on you again for not realizing this.
And shame on you for the 4th time to think "Buying on eBay generates no profit for GW" <--- Now think hard why this is . You disgust me.
I expected you... :-)
Please tell me how I hurt people. Usually I recast metal oop stuff in resin, which is from the collector's point of view hardly reducing the value of the metal copy that I own, especially that my replicas never leave my house.
But what intriguing me most is why you think eBay directly generates profit for GW....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:25:19
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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LunaHound wrote:Wrexasaur wrote:Imitation of my foot in his... never mind.
I make my online art available without stupid watermarks because I could care less if people want to have the filed, more power to them.
What really gets my goat is an underlying assumption that you can just take yesterdays art and sell it as your own, it is simply ludicrous to think that isn't an insult to the artist. This isn't standard art, they are products DESIGNED to be sold by a company. I have a general disdain for replica art, but the artists make no claim to the actual creation, nor do the companies that sell miniaturized versions (man... you suck so much gaudy stuff company...).
If I were to make a serious piece and sell it via mold, I would be incredibly angry if I found someone taking my design as their own. It really has nothing to do with money (well... of course it does in the long run) it is a matter of professional respect. Downright theft of the worst kind. Money is fleeting and so is my hard work apparently. Essentially you are saying that you made it so you can make the profit of it just as much as I can.
BOLLOCKS!!!
Well OP is either trolling , or doesnt know how economy works.
Tell me how GW is making a profit if I buy used models from ebay.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:25:25
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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LunaHound wrote:
Well OP is either trolling , or doesnt know how economy works.
I don't think I'm trolling and I have an MBA. And on this scale believe me it has nothing to do with economics.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:27:10
Subject: Re:Confessions of a re-caster
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
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Luna just has her cute little moments.
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:29:03
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Wrexasaur wrote:Imitation of my foot in his... never mind.
I make my online art available without stupid watermarks because I could care less if people want to have the filed, more power to them.
What really gets my goat is an underlying assumption that you can just take yesterdays art and sell it as your own, it is simply ludicrous to think that isn't an insult to the artist. This isn't standard art, they are products DESIGNED to be sold by a company. I have a general disdain for replica art, but the artists make no claim to the actual creation, nor do the companies that sell miniaturized versions (man... you suck so much gaudy stuff company...).
If I were to make a serious piece and sell it via mold, I would be incredibly angry if I found someone taking my design as their own. It really has nothing to do with money (well... of course it does in the long run) it is a matter of professional respect. Downright theft of the worst kind. Money is fleeting and so is my hard work apparently. Essentially you are saying that you made it so you can make the profit of it just as much as I can.
BOLLOCKS!!!
I think you misunderstand something... I never sell, and I never pretend it is genuine (to whom? myself?), especially not that it is my creation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:29:14
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Aferventus8 wrote:
Please tell me how I hurt people. Usually I recast metal oop stuff in resin, which is from the collector's point of view hardly reducing the value of the metal copy that I own, especially that my replicas never leave my house.
But what intriguing me most is why you think eBay directly generates profit for GW....
Ok , here goes! I have been told my english is bad and such , so im going to try very hard for you now
just to attempt to get my thoughts across clearly.
Now , what determines a product's worth? Is it just the materials used? no .
When people look at a product, what else do they see?
Its usefulness value eg = gamming and hobby piece
Its resell value eg= If someone gets bored of it, whats the chance and $ people can get rid of it for.
For example , a badly glued metal mini will fetch for better price then a horribly warped plastic.
Every 4 years when the current model is reproduced with new ones , what will happen to the current ones?
How many people will buy it? how will the price be determined ? How many will be offered on ebay / trade / craig lists etc etc.
ALL THOSE tiny reasoning makes up the worth of a useless piece of plastic . All those reasons support the extreme pricing of a GW product.
Do you see my point or do i need to explain more?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:30:44
Subject: Re:Confessions of a re-caster
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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The funny thing is that I do not have a problem with someone taking the core of ANY design and IP laws should be a lot more flexible than they are now. Not that I am wise on these laws, it just speaks for itself in the media... the whole thing is like a surreal mish-mash of recycled ideas, most of the time anyway. OH NOES the big studio doesn't want to get it's balls chopped up by angry mothers who think a nipple is the most evil invention god ever thought up.
If you look at the current GW WH40k sculpts they are obviously imitating a handful of very well known Sci-fi productions. I even see a bit of Blade runner in some of the Terrain, perhaps crossed with a bit of Judge dredd and Gattaca, and this is where they are experts. The gray zone is a fantastic place to be as a designer, you get to tangibly work with any core element to a piece of IP you want once you know the backs and upsies of the laws. The core element is like an Orange, because no one can copyright an orange... I am quite sure the Tropicana company would protect their precious straw with great voracity though.
You can also essentially copy the GW stuff next to 90% or so of it's full detail. As far as I know the main things that would be a big deal are the decals (very important) and most if not all of the guns. I doubt that GW can copyright tank tracks for instance, it would be a sight to see if they could though... who the hell would notice that though? They are just freaking tank tracks. The doors could be a problem as well, although I think it is a bit ridiculous because GW has directly taken multiple door designs and altered them to the smallest degree possible just to use them.
I may be assuming intelligence on the GW design teams part, but they sure as hell seem to know what they are doing most of the time. Now to the rest of GW...
"Note"
I may have written a bit fast but please do read before you respond in the future, we will never be on the same page if you don't. By read I do mean all of my preceding posts.
This part should have been blatantly obvious, and you made it cryptic and... meh, never mind.
Aferventus8 wrote:I think you misunderstand something... I never sell, and I never pretend it is genuine (to whom? myself?), especially not that it is my creation.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:43:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:36:25
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
You are harming gamesworkshop by passing off your product as theirs any problems wth your models is immediately passed on to the blame of GAmesworkshop.
In short your argument that you do not cause financial damage to Gamesworkshop because they do not sell on Ebay is false. You are devalueing their product through imitation.
Thats not a legal argument, I cant produce replicas of Ipods and sell them on Ebay because IPOD does not make profit from ebay.
So in short. No matter how you want to justify it you are still causing financial harm to not only individuals who have nothing to do with gamesworkshop but also gamesworkshops property.
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If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:40:10
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Hollismason wrote:However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
You are harming gamesworkshop by passing off your product as theirs any problems wth your models is immediately passed on to the blame of GAmesworkshop.
In short your argument that you do not cause financial damage to Gamesworkshop because they do not sell on Ebay is false. You are devalueing their product through imitation.
Thats not a legal argument, I cant produce replicas of Ipods and sell them on Ebay because IPOD does not make profit from ebay.
So in short. No matter how you want to justify it you are still causing financial harm to not only individuals who have nothing to do with gamesworkshop but also gamesworkshops property.
BrookM and others see this post ^
its a better worded and less angry explanation to my post.
My ideas arnt dumb BrookM , just the way i worded them...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:40:50
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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LunaHound wrote:Aferventus8 wrote:
Please tell me how I hurt people. Usually I recast metal oop stuff in resin, which is from the collector's point of view hardly reducing the value of the metal copy that I own, especially that my replicas never leave my house.
But what intriguing me most is why you think eBay directly generates profit for GW....
Ok , here goes! I have been told my english is bad and such , so im going to try very hard for you now
just to attempt to get my thoughts across clearly.
Now , what determines a product's worth? Is it just the materials used? no .
When people look at a product, what else do they see?
Its usefulness value eg = gamming and hobby piece
Its resell value eg= If someone gets bored of it, whats the chance and $ people can get rid of it for.
For example , a badly glued metal mini will fetch for better price then a horribly warped plastic.
Every 4 years when the current model is reproduced with new ones , what will happen to the current ones?
How many people will buy it? how will the price be determined ? How many will be offered on ebay / trade / craig lists etc etc.
ALL THOSE tiny reasoning makes up the worth of a useless piece of plastic . All those reasons support the extreme pricing of a GW product.
Do you see my point or do i need to explain more?
Luna, Luna dear...
What you are trying to explain is true for counterfeiters, what you refer to happens ON A MARKET and my basement does not qualifies as such. Even if you interpret market in a broader perspective, for people owning minis ang wargame with them... Even on that market my nicely painted stuff does not count. And if I post something on Coolminiornot and I get an average of 7.4 well, then I cant' see how it hurts GW's goodwill.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote:However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
You are harming gamesworkshop by passing off your product as theirs any problems wth your models is immediately passed on to the blame of GAmesworkshop.
In short your argument that you do not cause financial damage to Gamesworkshop because they do not sell on Ebay is false. You are devalueing their product through imitation.
Thats not a legal argument, I cant produce replicas of Ipods and sell them on Ebay because IPOD does not make profit from ebay.
So in short. No matter how you want to justify it you are still causing financial harm to not only individuals who have nothing to do with gamesworkshop but also gamesworkshops property.
DO I HAVE TO WRITE IN EVERY POST THAT I NEVER SELL RECASTS? NEVER EVEN SELL IN EBAY... CAN'T YOU GUYS READ?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:45:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:46:30
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Aferventus8 wrote:
DO I HAVE TO WRITE IN EVERY POST THAT I NEVER SELL RECASTS? NEVER EVEN SELL IN EBAY... CAN'T YOU GUYS READ?
How can someone with MBA not understand this? You dont have to sell recast on ebay to hurt the producers.
Aferventus8 wrote:
Luna, Luna dear...
What you are trying to explain is true for counterfeiters, what you refer to happens ON A MARKET and my basement does not qualifies as such. Even if you interpret market in a broader perspective, for people owning minis ang wargame with them... Even on that market my nicely painted stuff does not count. And if I post something on Coolminiornot and I get an average of 7.4 well, then I cant' see how it hurts GW's goodwill.
Well lets see. Your only argument now is based on "im counterfeiting alone for my army , it wouldnt matter much"
One counter feited army = 1 OOP army that cannot be resold because someone already replaced it with their cheap counterfeit alternative.
One person that does it, its sure to have others too. Especially when people have the audacity to discuss it so leisurely as you did in this thread.
"The wind is free, but the sand goes where it is blown. ... What is one grain of sand in the desert? One grain amongst the storm? ..."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:48:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:47:01
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Freelance Soldier
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Hollismason wrote:However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
Did he not already say the he DOES NOT sell them? He replicates for his own pleasure, never letting them leave his house.
*edit*
Was beaten to the punch. Also I think a couple people need to get the space marine out of their backend and find something actually wrong with what he's doing. might i quote from the GW main site "Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide." What is your country flag anyways?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:54:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:48:37
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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Sorry , your initial post is not clear and threads move fast. I apologize continue doing what you are doing if you want to recast all you want then go ahead your not breaking any laws by replicating products you bought.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:49:30
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Aferventus8 wrote:Wrexasaur wrote:Imitation of my foot in his... never mind.
I make my online art available without stupid watermarks because I could care less if people want to have the filed, more power to them.
What really gets my goat is an underlying assumption that you can just take yesterdays art and sell it as your own, it is simply ludicrous to think that isn't an insult to the artist. This isn't standard art, they are products DESIGNED to be sold by a company. I have a general disdain for replica art, but the artists make no claim to the actual creation, nor do the companies that sell miniaturized versions (man... you suck so much gaudy stuff company...).
If I were to make a serious piece and sell it via mold, I would be incredibly angry if I found someone taking my design as their own. It really has nothing to do with money (well... of course it does in the long run) it is a matter of professional respect. Downright theft of the worst kind. Money is fleeting and so is my hard work apparently. Essentially you are saying that you made it so you can make the profit of it just as much as I can.
BOLLOCKS!!!
I think you misunderstand something... I never sell, and I never pretend it is genuine (to whom? myself?), especially not that it is my creation.
Hollismason wrote:However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
You are harming gamesworkshop by passing off your product as theirs any problems wth your models is immediately passed on to the blame of GAmesworkshop.
In short your argument that you do not cause financial damage to Gamesworkshop because they do not sell on Ebay is false. You are devalueing their product through imitation.
Thats not a legal argument, I cant produce replicas of Ipods and sell them on Ebay because IPOD does not make profit from ebay.
So in short. No matter how you want to justify it you are still causing financial harm to not only individuals who have nothing to do with gamesworkshop but also gamesworkshops property.
Earth to DakkaDakka. This guy just said HE DOES NOT SELL ON EBAY! He just recasts out of production miniatures for himself in his basement, because he can't get them any other other way. I've considered doing the same thing with my Praetorians myself, and I KNOW that some other Dakka members do the same thing to quickly replicate things like meltaguns. He's not selling to anyone, he's reproducing OOP minis for himself. So before you all go up in flames about what he's saying, try READING his post.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:51:11
Subject: Re:Confessions of a re-caster
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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Aferventus8 wrote:DO I HAVE TO WRITE IN EVERY POST THAT I NEVER SELL RECASTS? NEVER EVEN SELL IN EBAY... CAN'T YOU GUYS READ?
NO we cannot, be freaking CLEARER. Post it in the title or in the OP because it is most DEFINITELY NOT obvious.
You made this thread in a sort of sensationalist way that kinda peeved me into reacting as I did.
Ketara wrote:Earth to DakkaDakka. This guy just said HE DOES NOT SELL ON EBAY! He just recasts out of production miniatures for himself in his basement, because he can't get them any other other way. I've considered doing the same thing with my Praetorians myself, and I KNOW that some other Dakka members do the same thing to quickly replicate things like meltaguns. He's not selling to anyone, he's reproducing OOP minis for himself. So before you all go up in flames about what he's saying, try READING his post.
Show me, because this should be VERY CLEAR. I don't understand what the big deal is, he is talking about something that people have pretty strong feelings about, and they sure as hell have to do with more than plastic toys man.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:54:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:51:59
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Tizz wrote:Hollismason wrote:However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
Did he not already say the he DOES NOT sell them? He replicates for his own pleasure, never letting them leave his house.
->Because for every item recasted = item not needed on ebay ( for example, so many selling methods )
->for every item not needed on ebay = items value goes down
->for every items goes down every 4 year = the value people reconsider to dish out to purchase the plastic
->for every extra thoughts to be considered and realized about the worth of $600 army = $5 of plastic = hurts GW sales.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:52:35
Subject: Re:Confessions of a re-caster
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Wrexasaur wrote:The funny thing is that I do not have a problem with someone taking the core of ANY design and IP laws should be a lot more flexible than they are now. Not that I am wise on these laws, it just speaks for itself in the media... the whole thing is like a surreal mish-mash of recycled ideas, most of the time anyway. OH NOES the big studio doesn't want to get it's balls chopped up by angry mothers who think a nipple is the most evil invention god ever thought up.
If you look at the current GW WH40k sculpts they are obviously imitating a handful of very well known Sci-fi productions. I even see a bit of Blade runner in some of the Terrain, perhaps crossed with a bit of Judge dredd and Gattaca, and this is where they are experts. The gray zone is a fantastic place to be as a designer, you get to tangibly work with any core element to a piece of IP you want once you know the backs and upsies of the laws. The core element is like an Orange, because no one can copyright an orange... I am quite sure the Tropicana company would protect their precious straw with great voracity though.
You can also essentially copy the GW stuff next to 90% or so of it's full detail. As far as I know the main things that would be a big deal are the decals (very important) and most if not all of the guns. I doubt that GW can copyright tank tracks for instance, it would be a sight to see if they could though... who the hell would notice that though? They are just freaking tank tracks. The doors could be a problem as well, although I think it is a bit ridiculous because GW has directly taken multiple door designs and altered them to the smallest degree possible just to use them.
I may be assuming intelligence on the GW design teams part, but they sure as hell seem to know what they are doing most of the time. Now to the rest of GW...
What do you think, I have this idea for a while to scratchbuild a warhammer scale tank, based on prewar soviet designs (multi-turret and stuff) and sell it. Would it be OK, if I use no insignia or GW parts, or any parts that directly resemble GW parts?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:55:37
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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LunaHound wrote:Tizz wrote:Hollismason wrote:However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
Did he not already say the he DOES NOT sell them? He replicates for his own pleasure, never letting them leave his house.
->for every items goes down every 4 year = the value people reconsider to dish out to purchase the plastic
->for every extra thoughts to be considered and realized about the worth of $600 army = $5 of plastic = hurts GW sales.
Sorry. Not trying to bait you here or anything, but I actually did not understand those last two points. Could you lay them out more clearly?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:56:17
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Freelance Soldier
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because i know it will be missed in my edited post
I think a couple people need to get the space marine out of their backend and find something actually wrong with what he's doing. Might i quote from the GW main site "Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide." What is your country flag anyways?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/25 22:57:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 22:56:54
Subject: Re:Confessions of a re-caster
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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Aferventus8 wrote:What do you think, I have this idea for a while to scratchbuild a warhammer scale tank, based on prewar soviet designs (multi-turret and stuff) and sell it. Would it be OK, if I use no insignia or GW parts, or any parts that directly resemble GW parts?
Umm... yes? Why wouldn't it be, it sounds like you are making your own tank entirely. Are you planning on using OTHER companies parts? This isn't just applicable to GW.
Tizz wrote:because i know it will be missed in my edited post
I think a couple people need to get the space marine out of their backend and find something actually wrong with what he's doing. Might i quote from the GW main site "Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide." What is your country flag anyways?
Someone casting a few guns because GW intentionally packages their items so you have to buy more stuff a lot of the time is standard stuff, and cracking down on it is next to being mentally handicapped to put it lightly. KILL THE GNATS, THEY ARE EATING OUR EXTRA REVENUE...
Legal or illegal I know at least a dozen people that do small casting jobs as a standard thing for nearly every army, it just doesn't make any sense not too most of the time. Crack down on half of your gaming community GW, and the best of luck with that particular endeavor.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/25 23:05:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/25 23:01:17
Subject: Confessions of a re-caster
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Ketara wrote:LunaHound wrote:Tizz wrote:Hollismason wrote:However what your doing is mail fraud and illegal. You are defrauding people of their money by selling a product that is imitation.
You are devalueing OOP models by producing replicas and passing them off as real there by causing a reduction in any secondary market and for collectors this is financial harm to people.
Did he not already say the he DOES NOT sell them? He replicates for his own pleasure, never letting them leave his house.
->for every items goes down every 4 year = the value people reconsider to dish out to purchase the plastic
->for every extra thoughts to be considered and realized about the worth of $600 army = $5 of plastic = hurts GW sales.
Sorry. Not trying to bait you here or anything, but I actually did not understand those last two points. Could you lay them out more clearly?
4 years is the average cycle GW comes up with new versions of their products.
The 2nd part i will give an example.
Say i play Tyranids k? I spend $1000 on it .
i 'll get the new stuff when their 4 year cycle is up and get the shinny new models.
I attempt to sell them on ebay ( price not important )
Ppl recast the nids at home because OOP is ok , now have no use or need to pay for my nid army because they can recast them for $5
Now we all know most of us arnt loyal to their army till the day we die ( chances are we'll sell / trade them for something else that fancy us in the future )
if knowing in the future no one will trade or buy our current army (because everyone will then have recasted army for $5 since it doesnt hurt anyone )
will people still pay as much for their current army? I can tell you "no"
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