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LunaHound wrote:
Ppl recast the nids at home because OOP is ok , now have no use or need to pay for my nid army because they can recast them for $5

Now we all know most of us arnt loyal to their army till the day we die ( chances are we'll sell / trade them for something else that fancy us in the future )
if knowing in the future no one will trade or buy our current army (because everyone will then have recasted army for $5 since it doesnt hurt anyone )
will people still pay as much for their current army? I can tell you "no"

have you looked into the price of resin recently? http://www.alumilite.com/ProdDetail.cfm?Category=Casting%20Resins&Name=Alumilite%20Regular

Wrexasaur wrote:

Aferventus8 wrote:What do you think, I have this idea for a while to scratchbuild a warhammer scale tank, based on prewar soviet designs (multi-turret and stuff) and sell it. Would it be OK, if I use no insignia or GW parts, or any parts that directly resemble GW parts?

Umm... yes? Why wouldn't it be, it sounds like you are making your own tank entirely. Are you planning on using OTHER companies parts? This isn't just applicable to GW.

Of course not. It would be totally self designed. But I heard that GW is ultra sensitive on this, and if I do it and do it the way that it can be reproduced, well I'd like to do it profitably and without lawyers.

Tizz wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Ppl recast the nids at home because OOP is ok , now have no use or need to pay for my nid army because they can recast them for $5

Now we all know most of us arnt loyal to their army till the day we die ( chances are we'll sell / trade them for something else that fancy us in the future )
if knowing in the future no one will trade or buy our current army (because everyone will then have recasted army for $5 since it doesnt hurt anyone )
will people still pay as much for their current army? I can tell you "no"

have you looked into the price of resin recently? http://www.alumilite.com/ProdDetail.cfm?Category=Casting%20Resins&Name=Alumilite%20Regular

Lets not debate about the minor details about the price of resin , and focus on the idea im trying to get across instead.
Also, why would i care about how much normal people pays for their resins?
Do you think GW is so special they can get products cheaply made in China? I can easily find factory in china to recast anything i feel like
and i can guarantee you it'll still end up costing less than the site you showed me.
( provided if you have buisness connection to not need to fill the min required amount , so i dont have to redistribute the extras i cannot possibly fit into even an apocalypse army )

1. Isn't recasting such a hot topic these days. lol

2. OP - you may be a reacaster - but at least you aren't selling OOP/Unreleased stuff.

Which you have stated yourself - and thats good.


You aren't selfish - profiting on GW's work.



@luna - i didn't know you were such anti recaster! Where were you when i... nvm lol.

Moderator hat on

Can future posters please tone it down in this thread and have a more rational discussion rather than the 'OMGBBQ!!!' style completely over the top shenanigans going on at the moment.
And as to the OP, ha did clearly state that he doesn't sell what he makes

As a regular poster...

We have a 'how to cast' article on dakka.
I'd be casting things like empire cannon wheels, If I could be bothered to buy the stuff to do it, but it would be for personal use only.
If he was selling them will nilly it would be a different situation, but I'm sure GW's overpricing and lame rules writing ability is hurting them much more than some guy recasting a few OOP items for personal use.

Well it kinda put a hamper on your $5 argument. As I see it, he is buying some OOP minis off ebay for maybe $20, then spending $50-$100 on the resin plus more for the silicone mold to be able to recast it.

It would be perfectly legal from an IP perspective to design, build, and replicate your own models - for profit even!

The line gets drawn when you use IP from another company. Designing a model so that it is similar to another company's IP is legal as well - check out Chapterhouse Studios for the flame war on that one - so you could for instance, have an iron cross on the tank. However, be prepared to naysayers (and possibly lawyers w/ C&D orders) at your door if it looks too similar to a GW product...

I read your post from the begining and felt that you expressed your situation very clearly. I certainly don't begrudge you copying your own miniatures that are no longer in production and are diffilcult to locate in fieldable quantities. However, this is an illegal practice and you should be aware that many hobbyists feel negatively towards this practice.

Lunahound wrote:4 years is the average cycle GW comes up with new versions of their products.

The 2nd part i will give an example.

Say i play Tyranids k? I spend $1000 on it .
i 'll get the new stuff when their 4 year cycle is up and get the shinny new models.
I attempt to sell them on ebay ( price not important )
Ppl recast the nids at home because OOP is ok , now have no use or need to pay for my nid army because they can recast them for $5

Now we all know most of us arnt loyal to their army till the day we die ( chances are we'll sell / trade them for something else that fancy us in the future )
if knowing in the future no one will trade or buy our current army (because everyone will then have recasted army for $5 since it doesnt hurt anyone )
will people still pay as much for their current army? I can tell you "no"

Little did you know that Luna has a master plan to take over the world.



It is the brain from pinky and the brain.

Tizz wrote:because i know it will be missed in my edited post

I think a couple people need to get the space marine out of their backend and find something actually wrong with what he's doing. Might i quote from the GW main site "Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide." What is your country flag anyways?

It is Hungary. If I sold something they could sue me, but failing that they would have to prove damages, and that, since all stuff is oop and it is for personal use, and I never wargame would be ridiculous. At least in the European Union. Dunno about the states.

RogueMarket wrote:
@luna - i didn't know you were such anti recaster! Where were you when i... nvm lol.

Oh trust me , i have seen enough of the disgusting practice ( yep i had a thread on it long ago about recasters on ebay , it went on for pages and people wouldnt believe me rofl )
Chobo, i know you are asian . And you seem to be active in trying to get business deal on creating things.

So out of all the nay sayers in this thread, ironically you should be the most informative and understands my posts.

At the very least -


At least you dont profitize off OOP/Unreleased parts.
People do.

You don't.


At least you admit it.


Others.. wont ;P

Chobo, i know you are asian . And you seem to be active in trying to get business deal on creating things.

Uhh... okie ha

RogueMarket wrote:

Uhh... okie ha

Hmm... 我對你...評價過高吗

LunaHound wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:

Uhh... okie ha

Hmm... 我對你...評價過高吗

Could you elaborate on...

Google translator wrote:My rating is too high for you ... you

I think it means "Fine then!".

LunaHound wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:

Uhh... okie ha

Hmm... 我對你...評價過高吗

I see, lol.

Anyways - no threadjacking~.

------------------------------------------

Concensus should be.



Recasting is generally seen as bad.

Though - of course us Dakkites can't do anything about it.

It doesnt hurt us - directly or whatever.

If you dont sell it - or share it .. we'd never know.
If you keep it to yourself - GW would never know.


Sell it - people will know. sometimes people will not care if you AWE them with someting they dont have.


Recasting overall - has negative vibes with it.

Though for self use.. Dont ask about it - dont tell ;P

Wouldn't it be nicer for GW to utilize all those old molds an masters? Do you know how much nicer some models were...

It does suck that some stuff just disappears into the coffers of companies sometimes, but that is just a small price for the new models they make now... which are way cooler to the max 2000.

"Note"
Some models are way cooler to the max 10000 which is just ridiculous and officially blingy.

The emperors new bling so to speak.

I dont see anything wrong with recasting for your own personal use. I see something wron with recasting and then passing it off as the real deal and defrauding people.


The OP didn't make it clear at all that he was not selling, then he clarified and what he is doing is fine.

Why he is doing that I dunno he doesnt play but hey some people just like the models.

yeah - OP didn't - got everyone riled up lol.

Hollismason wrote:I dont see anything wrong with recasting for your own personal use. I see something wron with recasting and then passing it off as the real deal and defrauding people.


The OP didn't make it clear at all that he was not selling, then he clarified and what he is doing is fine.

Why he is doing that I dunno he doesnt play but hey some people just like the models.

I like the journey, but I'm indifferent to the designation :-). I like wargames but on PC online. Nothing like a good total war battle against a human opponent.

The value of stuff is determined by supply and demand. Buy recasting, you are deflating demand by the number of copies that you produce for yourself. Instead of following the rules and waiting for actual supply, you are copying illegally.

BrookM wrote:

Uriels_Flame wrote:Hmm, but isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery?

And rape is just a way of showing how much you love the person on the receiving end.

Hmm. Not quite a good enough analogy. And if I could get away with "loving" GW that much, it would be tempting.

But, alas. As I stated, I don't resell and you're not coming to my house to buy anything so it is a "moot" point.

i've no problem with it, since its just for his personal use, and as he said, he's not selling them.

As for luna's talk about ebay. I figure for each model he makes a copy of, a couple dozen copies out there somewhere suffer some horrible fate(small children, pets, angry partners, glue induces bit hunting), thus maintaining the online price of old models

I'm almost certain that recasting is illegal. A lawful character of any kind wouldn't do it, but a
Neutral or a Chaotic Good character might do so with some personal justification.

In other words, yes you're not selling it, so GW is probably not going to come after you, but
it is still against the law. Whether or not you feel it is wrong to do something illegal that will not
be enforced is a personal decision.

As best as I can understand Fair Use, profit is not the only determining factor in its application
(if it even applies here).

Sorry if I'm wrong about it being against the law, but I'm pretty sure it is against the law.

I also think the rhetoric in the thread needs to cool down a bit. Kittens only die when you
let someone play 40k

I cast some of my models out of resin. But I just cast bits like the SM back packs and the Chaos SM horned heads (so I can shape the horns). As long as you don't sell the copies or mass produce them for the sole purpose for profit I see nothing wrong with casting some of your own models. Casting the bits helps a lot in customizing instead of making parts from scratch from green stuff. Now as far as for example casting a WHOLE SM army for example from resin is pointless to me. It'll cost more in supplies and casting material than what the models are worth. If you're making a total custom army from scratch using no GW parts then it would make sense the cast the army from resin.

malfred wrote:I'm almost certain that recasting is illegal. A lawful character of any kind wouldn't do it, but a
Neutral or a Chaotic Good character might do so with some personal justification.

Color me "Chaotic Neutral".

malfred wrote:In other words, yes you're not selling it, so GW is probably not going to come after you, but
it is still against the law. Whether or not you feel it is wrong to do something illegal that will not
be enforced is a personal decision.

So is speeding - even 1 mile over. But let's not bring actual law into the realm of Tiny Toys!

malfred wrote: I also think the rhetoric in the thread needs to cool down a bit. Kittens only die when you
let someone play 40k

I thought it was a kitten dies everytime someone says the word "Fluff". . . .

Is recasting for personal use illegal? Of course. Is it worth suing over? No. Is it worth the government prosecuting? No.

Is it immoral? Yes, a little bit. GW owns their stuff, and jsut because they won't share doesn't give you the right to take what you want. It's tough, but you are taking something that isn't yours.

Is any of this a problem? No, probably not. I mean, yes it's illegal and immoral, but who cares? Just keep in mind at all times that you are breaking the law and taking other peoples stuff simply so you can have more toys to play with. Most people get past that, but let's not dress your actions up as anything less petty and sordid.

malfred wrote:
As best as I can understand Fair Use, profit is not the only determining factor in its application
(if it even applies here).
let someone play 40k

That´s the problem, the law varies from country to country and unfortunately for some posters in most of the EU so far profit has been the determining factor in the copyright fight.
So Luna please take into account that what for you is a crime, for others is not and as noted above the Courts in Spain, France and Sweden (all I can recall right now) have already determined in similar cases that if the OP is doing it for personal use it falls under Fair Use.

M.

Miguelsan, that's the first thing that crossed my mind when I saw the original post; my eyes darted to the country flag.

Good call.

What the is the point of this thread?

In the original post, the OP claims to cast copies of figures, but claims to not play with them or sell them. So ing what? The OP may as well go around claiming to have a hobby of transcribing novels at home; or buying CD's, copying the CD's and making dioramas out of the lot.

All I want to know is if there's some way to tell the forum software to ignore this thread so that I don't see it ever again because at best it's entirely pointless, and at worst it's an attempt to troll by posting something which implies that the OP is doing something that anyone would care about, while still letting the OP claim complete innocence and that people are misunderstanding.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The value of stuff is determined by supply and demand. Buy recasting, you are deflating demand by the number of copies that you produce for yourself. Instead of following the rules and waiting for actual supply, you are copying illegally.

Thank you for explaining that, I know english probably isn't Luna's first language so I was finding it a bit hard to understand the point she was trying to make.

That said, like it's been pointed out already, the laws are different depending on where you live, so his recasting could be perfectly legal.