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So me and LBursley did battle last night and it was rad. But I noticed that my chain swords didn't really do anything to benefit my squads because the only rule I could find for them was that I would get 2 attacks if my sergeant had 2 of them.

Are they completely useless or do they have some greater purpose that I have missed?

That's what they do.

At least in the SM codex, sergeants get a bolter and bolt pistol, with the option of trading the bolter for a chainsword, so you can either give them an extra shot (from a bolter over a bolt pistol) or an extra attack in assault (from having paired close combat weapons), but not both.

Ick.

No one takes dual swords on purpose unless its just a modelling thing, you normally do BP CCW.

But yeah there is no benefit. If you think about it, no they would not be as powerful as a power sword, and the rules arent fine enough to distinguish between the heft and power of a normal sword and the cutting action of a chains sword, so they act the same.

Seems like I should just rip them off and give my sgts. bolt guns.

You could but he gets less attacks in close combat.

Jervis does it I think, can't go wrong.

Pistols (of any sort, up to and including plasma) count as a second CCW.

Chainsword is the first that is required. Could well just model on a combat knife or bayonet, though.

They give all my CSM 2 attacks in close combat, on top of my bolters for range.

It seems to me that having tac marines enter cc is a failed endeavor though. I try and use Cato and my vanguard for those kind of shenanigans because they just wreck entire squads. I just started playing again though so I am basically a huge noob.

I rather like the fact that Chainswords are just Close Combat Weapons. It means I've been able to replace all the Chainswords in my force with Scout Combat Knives and I don't have to dither about with 'counts-as' before games.

If you arm your Marine Sgt with a Bolter and Bolt Pistol, I don't belive you get an extra shot!

A Sgt gets 2 attacks anyway, so arming him with a CCW would give him 3 attacks, if he's assaulting he gets 4 etc etc...Its worth bearing in mind, that an Infantry model can never get more than the bonus +1 for an extra weapon, so even if your Sgt was carrying 6 Chain swords (all strapped to his back!) he'd still only get the +1 for an extra CCW in the assault phase!

To be honest, I also wondered about the "use" of a Chain sword over, well, a tooth pick....but in gaming terms they're the same!

The extra shot would be from rapid fire at 12 in or less with a boltgun. So having the ccw on my sgt grants him an extra attack? Army builder told me that it would only do anything if I had 2 of them..damn lying computer programs.

Anybody wonder why the Eldard chainsword (on Scorpions I believe) get plus one to their strength but SM do not?

because the eldar chainsword that grants +1 str is a "Scorpion chainsword." The eldar have other models with chainswords, and those dont get the +1 strength.

Because they are Eldar

Powerfists are much better anyway, I would always take one over BP CCW

Speaking of power fists. Where does it say how much str the grant?

In the weapons special rules section. It doubles your base ST.

Back in 2nd edition, swords were different than regular CCW.

Swords (both power and chain) let you parry one attack. What parry did was make your attacker re-roll one successful hit in assault.

Of course all that changed in 3rd edition where chainswords became generic CCW.

They're there to be annoying to paint.

A bolt pistol counts as a CCW in close combat. So your arge can either have a bolter and a bolt pistol, letting him rapid fire, or a bolt pistol and chainsword, giving him 2 CCWs, so he gets a bonus attack in CC. Replace the chainsword with a power sword and you have a good close combat unit, 4 attacks on the charge, with 9 T4 sv3+ ablative wounds around him (that aren't that shabby in CC either, WS4 S4 2 attacks on the charge)

Oh cool i didn't know pistols counted as CCW.

It's never a bad idea to go back and re-read the rulebook carefully. I've had to do it several times, and I'm still fuzzy on a few rules (meaning I have to go look 'em up).

SignsPoint2Fail wrote:It seems to me that having tac marines enter cc is a failed endeavor though. I try and use Cato and my vanguard for those kind of shenanigans because they just wreck entire squads. I just started playing again though so I am basically a huge noob.

Yes but what about guarding from cc.

A tac squad is better in CC than:
Fire warriors in any number
Guardsmen in any number.
Sisters of battle
Kroot
Eldar Guardians and Dire Avengers, as well as any aspect that isnt CC based.
Tac Marines with less points spent in CC than them

All of these enemies are seen very commonly, so tac squads are worth spending CC points in.

Plus chainswords look badass cool.
Why wouldnt you want your Sarge to literally carve up some xenos and heretics?

Although tactical squads shouldn't normally enter cc willingly, they are often charged by rampaging orcs etc, so an extra cc attack is useful.
I personally set up my sargents with either Plasma pistol and power weapon - This means they get +1 cc attack, and their shooting and cc attacks all ignore armour saves - this more than makes up for the lack of a bolter but does unfortunatly makes them 30 points more expensive.
Or I arm them with a power fist and bolt pistol - This means they have a good chance of killing most things in cc but don't get too expensive.
Chainswords are cheap and cheerful, though I wish they gave rending as they should when you think about it :(

I'm not sure why but I feel like pointing out, as your a noob, that ALL marines have bolt pistols unless otherwise stated which means heavy weapon models can still fire something even if they have moved (its also useful for point blank firing if you have a plasma cannon in the squad, that way you run no chance of a AP2 blast scattering into your own men)

You get a +1 attack if you combine it with a bolt pistol or somefink.

Also, they are AWESOME. RUHNUNNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNNNN!!!!!!!!!

Texas ChainSWORD massacre in POWER ARMOUR!!!

Grim.Badger wrote:Although tactical squads shouldn't normally enter cc willingly, they are often charged by rampaging orcs etc, so an extra cc attack is useful.
I personally set up my sargents with either Plasma pistol and power weapon - This means they get +1 cc attack, and their shooting and cc attacks all ignore armour saves - this more than makes up for the lack of a bolter but does unfortunatly makes them 30 points more expensive.
Or I arm them with a power fist and bolt pistol - This means they have a good chance of killing most things in cc but don't get too expensive.
Chainswords are cheap and cheerful, though I wish they gave rending as they should when you think about it :(

I'm not sure why but I feel like pointing out, as your a noob, that ALL marines have bolt pistols unless otherwise stated which means heavy weapon models can still fire something even if they have moved (its also useful for point blank firing if you have a plasma cannon in the squad, that way you run no chance of a AP2 blast scattering into your own men)

I totally forgot about the bolt pistol thing. Useful information

the fact that all marines have bolt pistols is revolutionary to my tactics like, my dev squad really benefits from that, do you just say, oh, those models are firing bolt pistols this shooting phase?

Its funny, in the heat of a game, you really need to sbe switched on to your armys rules, or you will forget something that could be the difference between winning or losing.....

Remember, the rule book is only ever any good if you remember that there is a rule that you need to look up!

Already I've realised from this thread that:

I always forget that the Heavy weapon Marine could fire his pistol in the shooting phase if he moved!

Theres so much that a commander can miss......is a plus point in the game, its also a drawback.