Models with no eyes.

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**willydstyle**

So i was playing against an Eldar guy, and he was being a real TFG asking me to measure real careful and lookin' up rules and stuff (lolol i kno rite? what a douche) and when it was his turn he tried to shoot me with his wraithlord and i told him that he could not because it doesn't have eyes. He looked up the rule and got real mad, but ended up just running his wraithlord instead (is he allowed to do that if he can't shoot? i think he might have cheated...). i lost the game cuz of some totally bad dice but i wanted to ask everyone amirite about the wraithlords not shooting?

**Dexy**

Tanks don't have eyes, so I guess they can't shoot either!

**Bla_Ze**

**barlio**

Neither do most Imperial Psykers (since they melt, dry up, or whatever). I guess they give them las pistols just so they don't pout.

I don't think wraithguard should be able to shoot either since they are just constructs.

@Dronze: Dino Rider's references=1-Ups way to go.

**Dronze**

willydstyle wrote:So i was playing against an Eldar guy, and he was being a real TFG asking me to measure real careful and lookin' up rules and stuff (lolol i kno rite? what a douche) and when it was his turn he tried to shoot me with his wraithlord and i told him that he could not because it doesn't have eyes. He looked up the rule and got real mad, but ended up just running his wraithlord instead (is he allowed to do that if he can't shoot? i think he might have cheated...). i lost the game cuz of some totally bad dice but i wanted to ask everyone amirite about the wraithlords not shooting?

Wraithlords have a special rule called "Wraithsight" (IIRC) that, if I'm not mistaken, keeps them from shooting if there's not a psyker within X number if inches of them. I don't know what the exact rule is, but it's in the codex... look it up. As far as the running thing goes, I'd say it was a legal maneuver, as Genestealers and Hormagaunts are both allowed to run, despite not actually having any ranged weapons.

**ArbitorIan**

willydstyle wrote:i told him that he could not because it doesn't have eyes.

BRB p16 - "Line of sight must be traced from the eyes of the firing model"

You are correct. RAW, a wraithlord cannot shoot anything, as it has no eyes. Neither can any other model without eyes.

BRB p58 - "..point [the weapon] at the target and then trace the line of sight from the weapon's mounting and along the barrel"

However, it seems tanks CAN shoot, even though they don't have eyes.

**Timmah**

Yes tanks can shoot because LoS is measured from the gun.

But in answer to your question, yes a wraithlord can run as you can still run even though you can't shoot. I don't believe its a replacement effect.

**Witzkatz**

Ah, that is, of course, interesting

However, the term "eye" is not clearly defined in the rulebook, isn't it. Therefore, RAW-ruling like this is based on something not RAW-defined, which makes this argument a bit weaker. Hell, I guess you could argue that some of the gems on the wraithlord are eyes...

**Bla_Ze**

Please send me your adresses and names so your Genes can be purged in holy fire.

To be serious, you guys must be slow not to spot a troll.

Sorry eyes isn't a requirement to draw los.

**Timmah**

Bla_Ze wrote:Please send me your adresses and names so your Genes can be purged in holy fire.

To be serious, you guys must be slow not to spot a troll.

Sorry eyes isn't a requirement to draw los.

Its not?
Please go read the rules on drawing LoS.

**barlio**

@Witzkatz: I don't think that is being argued (that they can shoot), the Wraithlord/guard are special exceptions with regards to their shooting because of Wraithsight.

If outside of a Pysker and whether, or not, they can shoot is being questioned I believe. It is agreed upon (as far as I can tell) that they may run regardless.

**Timmah**

Yea, I'm pretty sure everyone in here is joking about them not being able to shoot. Then again...technically they don't have eyes to draw LoS from.

**willydstyle**

Bla_Ze wrote:Please send me your adresses and names so your Genes can be purged in holy fire.

To be serious, you guys must be slow not to spot a troll.

Sorry eyes isn't a requirement to draw los.

Who's the bright penny?

However... according to the rulebook a model does have to have "eyes" to draw LoS, unless it is a vehicle.

I was really just doing my part to point out some of the absurdity that playing by "strict RAW" can accomplish.

**Bla_Ze**

Sorry bub no, just no.

It doesn't work like that.
Cause you would have to count out Marines, tau and hell of a lot other models.

Edit:
willydstyle: what if some poor noob browse this stuff and belive this is how you play the game? lol

**barlio**

Well, willydstyle I would agree with you ( about sillyness of strict RAW), but it's a dead horse in other current threads so we don't need an entire thread on it.

No offense, just saying.

**willydstyle**

Bla_Ze wrote:
willydstyle: what if some poor noob browse this stuff and belive this is how you play the game? lol

Eh, my reputation on the internets is not that important to me

**Timmah**

Actually there is already a thread discussing situations like this and strict RAW.

check the thread titled undefined terms.

**dietrich**

I can't wait to pull this on my Eldar-loving friends!

**aflax1**

Wraith don't need eyes they are spirits of dead wariors they are everywhere at once and a walker can run but measuring counts as you whole shooting phase so he couldn't run if he measured and knew that he couldn't shoot.

**willydstyle**

Well, I actually play Eldar!

**Bla_Ze**

If someone is a ass and pulls this in a game. Remember... you cant acctualy see the eyes of marines, or tau firewarriors/Battlesuits. and so fourth.
Even some models that only has one eye, cant shoot either.

**willydstyle**

Bla_Ze wrote:If someone is a ass and pulls this in a game. Remember... you cant acctualy see the eyes of marines, or tau firewarriors/Battlesuits. and so fourth.
Even some models that only has one eye, cant shoot either.

The guard codex is overpowered because their models have eyes hahaha.

**whitedragon**

If the wraithlord uses "wraithsight", does he have to trace LOS from the psyker's eyes?

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

I've jokingly pulled this on Tyranid players too. Some of the FW models are just looking straight down, making their effective range 3-6"

**Lordhat**

ArbitorIan wrote:
willydstyle wrote:i told him that he could not because it doesn't have eyes.

BRB p16 - "Line of sight must be traced from the eyes of the firing model"

Just fething PAINT some eyes on the damn thing

**Orkeosaurus**

**kirsanth**

Wow.

Just, wow.

**stormtitan**

dietrich wrote:I can't wait to pull this on my Eldar-loving friends!

Lucky for me (not for you) that I don't field any wraith models currently. My mechdar don't need eyes to see your stinky Tau.

**Deffgob**

Really, all that happened here is that Willy ran into TFG and was like "pfffft! I'll show you how to be TFG!"

I say +1 point Willy

**Flashman**

Hilarious arguments, though wouldn't find it funny if someone tried this one on me.