Models with no eyes.

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**Thor665**

Bla_Ze wrote:If someone is a ass and pulls this in a game. Remember... you cant acctualy see the eyes of marines, or tau firewarriors/Battlesuits. and so fourth.
Even some models that only has one eye, cant shoot either.

I think the age old question of why sergeants and other ICs all take off their helmets has now been answered. Huzzah!

**Timmah**

Thor665 wrote:
Bla_Ze wrote:If someone is a ass and pulls this in a game. Remember... you cant acctualy see the eyes of marines, or tau firewarriors/Battlesuits. and so fourth.
Even some models that only has one eye, cant shoot either.

I think the age old question of why sergeants and other ICs all take off their helmets has now been answered. Huzzah!

Actually a model/unit cannot block LoS for itself. So as long as you know where the eyes are you are fine.

**Orkeosaurus**

Umm... a model doesn't actually have eyes under it's helmet. It's just plastic.

**Thor665**

Yeah, marines have eye-slits of protective lenses on helmets. Unless we can see the eyes how do we know they're there? They're certainly not WYSIWIG.

**Timmah**

Orkeosaurus wrote:Umm... a model doesn't actually have eyes under it's helmet. It's just plastic.

really? can you prove it? :p

also none of your guns have bullets in them, they are just plastic!

(this thread is going places)

**Thor665**

The rules don;t require bullets to fire our weapons - they do require eyes. You need to apply some logic here, my friend.

**Timmah**

Thor665 wrote:The rules don;t require bullets to fire our weapons - they do require eyes. You need to apply some logic here, my friend.

Dang it. hrmm what if I paint my space marines to look like robots and paint their eye slits as eyes?

**Orkeosaurus**

You have to prove there are; otherwise how would you measure? You can't measure from where you think they are, you have to measure from where they are.

The rules don't say you need to have bullets in the model's guns to shoot.

Also, this thread is very silly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitors can shoot if they're wearing helmets, because they have little "=I="s on their shoulders.

**Thor665**

I think we might need a "RAW Gone Wild" thread where this, sweeping advance Librarians, and Librarians who can't have the Space Marine special rules or Terminator armor can all be enshrined for great justice.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitors can shoot if they're wearing helmets, because they have little "=I="s on their shoulders.

**Orkeosaurus**

If you proxy your wraithlord with a potato, it can shoot.

**Timmah**

For the record my librarians SA at least had some logic behind it.

Now that my opponents army can't shoot, I need to make sure they can't assault. Hrmm

**Orkeosaurus**

If you stick a needle in your model it can also shoot, but a camel can't go through it.

**augustus5**

It pains me to see that anyone would even bother trying to argue that a model with all kinds of shooting option weapon load outs needs eyes to see. What a joke.

Go sit down in the corner and breathe really slowly and catch your breath. Then go back to your game and try to enjoy it rather than rules lawyering it into oblivion.

**kirsanth**

augustus5 wrote:Then go back to your game and try to enjoy it rather than rules lawyering it into oblivion.

Why not both?

**willydstyle**

Thor665 wrote:I think we might need a "RAW Gone Wild" thread where this, sweeping advance Librarians, and Librarians who can't have the Space Marine special rules or Terminator armor can all be enshrined for great justice.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitors can shoot if they're wearing helmets, because they have little "=I="s on their shoulders.

The difference is that the RAW for models in terminator armor doing SA is actually ambiguous under RAW. A model needing "eyes" to be able to draw LoS is totally unambiguous.

By the way to the guy who gave me "+1": my original post was 100% sarcastic. I do tell my opponent to measure carefully if they're being sloppy about it, and if there is a rules discussion, looking up the pertinent rules is never a bad thing.

**Drudge Dreadnought**

This thread delivers.

**barlio**

Orkeosaurus wrote:If you proxy your wraithlord with a potato, it can shoot.

Get it, a potato has eyes.

**Flavius Infernus**

Good one, Willy.

Sorry, guys. According to the RAW, a model without eyes technically can't draw a line of sight on anything.

It's a perfect example of why you can't play the game 100% according to the RAW.

What mystifies me is why people get so emotional and upset because a rule is written in such a way that it doesn't actually work, and try to deny that's what it actually says. Obviously you don't *have* to play it that way.

**barlio**

Flavius Infernus wrote:Obviously you don't *have* to play it that way.

But when people argue a point and how said point could "potentially" be played that way you are then lending a very tiny amount of credibility to an other wise absurd idea. That is why people (myself included) get a little irrational in these discussions. We don't understand how one could possibly understand a certain line of thinking. By going against the preconceptions we have (even if 99.9% of people agree) the masses will still not accept a different answer. That .01% is essentially derailing the accepted view (right or wrong). I'm not arguing against somebody having alternate viewpoints or ideas, but at some point we just want to throw our hands up in the air and leave the intraweb.

I think another thing is that we all have a hidden fear that we are going to face somebody in a game who will try something like this and we will be ill-prepared to counter an argument like this. It's pretty easy to do over the information-superhighway. Another thing entirely in person (unless you have the rulebook, faqs, and codices memorized front to back).

**DogOfWar**

Either way, it's clear the ayes have it...

DoW

**Cheese Elemental**

Let's make a list of now-useless models.

Space Marines/Chaos Marines with helmets.
Stormtroopers
Tankbustas who wear masks
All Eldar with helmets
Wraithlords
Wraithguard
All Tau with helmets (that's all of them except Shadowsun, Ethereals and that one Shas'ui model)
Tau Drones
Dark Eldar with helmets (Wyches, Haemonculi, Warp Beasts and Mandrakes are OK)
Dark Eldar Archon (he's wearing a skin mask over his face)
The Shokk Attack Gun Big Mek (who wears goggles)
Necron Scarabs (they only have one eye, not eyes plural)

Crap, this is going to take too long.

**Orkeosaurus**

Yarrick.

Unless you count the Bale Eye as a real one.

Guardsmen with sunglasses.

Deffkoptas.

**Cheese Elemental**

Yep, he has one real eye and one bionic one.

This is going to be so much fun to abuse at tonight's game. My opponent is bringing his Iyanden Eldar (so he has lots of Wraithguards/Lord who cannot shoot).

**willydstyle**

Stormtrooper sergeants have eyes, they can guide the shots of the rest of the squad.

**Cheese Elemental**

Not if he can't draw LOS in the first place.

This is the funniest thing I've seen since the Marneus Calgar holding up a Land Raider so its cargo could disembark into ruins.

**willydstyle**

What do you think the power sword is there for? It's called "mechanical advantage."

**Crazy_Carnifex**

Thor665 wrote:Yeah, marines have eye-slits of protective lenses on helmets. Unless we can see the eyes how do we know they're there? They're certainly not WYSIWIG.

So, not only is Schrodingers cat neither dead nor alive, it may or may not have eyes?

**Alpharius**

Thread fail.