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Yarrik's Rule

P.36 IG Codex wrote:Iron Will: If Yarrik Looses his last Wound, do not remove him but instead place him on his side...

NFW Rule (Nemesis Force Weapon)

P.18 DH Codex wrote:blah blah Grand Master Treats as Force weapon

Force weapon Rule

P.17 DH codex wrote:...If the test is passed then the opponent is slain outright, no matter how many wounds it has (but count the actual amount inflicted for determining which side won the assault)...

The situation arose where the Grand Master wounded Yarrik, then passed his test. What happens now? Is yarrik slain outright, or placed on his side? Being a Gentleman General, I offered for the venerated commissar to be slain off the table, in favour of my opponent. I feel that while it was polite, it might have been the wrong thing to do. Can anyone help me out with this?

I think he just dies and he can ge tback up as far as I know unless it says he is removed from the table. I think it might but not havin a codex in front of me I'm not sure.

To me, it makes more sense to place him on his side. I mean, it doesn't say that the model is removed without any ability to save them, like the 6-6 result on the Shokk Attack Gun.

He can get back up I'm pretty sure. The daemonhunters codex is outdated anyway, so I'm assuming the Imperial Guard one would be more relevant.

Besides... its Yarrick.

Ya I think you can tell them its Yarrick give them a finger then roll a six to get him back up.

ok so he is slain out right and is put on his side since it doent say anything about removing the model then next turn he gets right back up and punchs the grand master in the face

If you take "slain outright" to mean that the model is removed without actually losing wounds then sadly I don't think Yarrick has a chance to get up from this one.

On the other hand, if you take "slain outright" to mean that every wound is removed (regardless of how many there are) until the model has no wounds left, then he should absolutely roll.

Depends on how nitpicky you want to get about the wording. It doesn't actually SAY it removes any wounds, but it does talk about how many wounds the model might have left (and that they don't matter) so you might be able to infer that they are being removed as part of the effect of "slain outright."

The other factor is that he has Eternal Warrior as a special ability. This only prevents "instant death" so it's not technically effective against "slain outright" as per the RAW, but it seems that the RAI behind Eternal Warrior is to prevent all "instant death"-like effects regardless of how they are phrased.

Conclusion? If you're hardcore RAW then sadly Yarrick is both killed in one hit and doesn't get a chance to get back up either.

Personally I wouldn't let him be affected by "slain outright" as he is clearly intended to be immune to such an effect, so he wouldn't go down in the first place. If that attack was to make him lose his last wound, I would probably still let him roll for Iron Will as well.

After all, you paid 185 points for the tough old bastard... he had better get back up.

DoW

I'm going to agree with DoW on this one as RAW does say slain outright and makes no mention of wounds received. Now should it have said "suffers instant death" as most force weapons state in the BRB,then I would say that he would take a wound as if it were not a force weapon only because he is an eternal warrior (immune to instant death BRB pg 74).

Tournament they would prob say he is dead, with my friends I could reasonably argue that he is immune because slain outright and instant death are comparible, but YMMV.

i'm sorry but every way I read it, it seems like he gets to roll.

It seems to me the "slain outright" simply means "It dies as if it lost all its wounds" I SERIOUSLY believe the rules were NOT intended to be looked into with a microscope. ( I know this entire forum disagrees with me, but it seems the writers want to keep it fluid and not 10,000 pg rulebook like MTG)

Thanks for the help everyone! Next time I run into this situation (almost never) I'll be sure to do it right. I tend to agree with the just gets tipped over approach.
Thanks,
Iboshi2

I believe eternal warrior prevents yarrick from being slain by a force weapon outright.... slain outright and instant death are the same in context.. since DH codex is old and outdated they did not have the term instant death then..

juppy wrote:I believe eternal warrior prevents yarrick from being slain by a force weapon outright.... slain outright and instant death are the same in context.. since DH codex is old and outdated they did not have the term instant death then..

Wrong.

DH force weapons still function the old way as they have the old rules in the codex. Codex trumps BGB. Any non DH force weapon would place him on his side. But I believe any DH force weapon would get rid of him.


On a side note, a codex that is the most current codex for an army is not outdated.
And I also love the argument to tell your opponent that he's yarrick and he doesn't follow the rules. (let me know how that works out for you)

Timmah wrote:

juppy wrote:I believe eternal warrior prevents yarrick from being slain by a force weapon outright.... slain outright and instant death are the same in context.. since DH codex is old and outdated they did not have the term instant death then..

Wrong.

DH force weapons still function the old way as they have the old rules in the codex. Codex trumps BGB. Any non DH force weapon would place him on his side. But I believe any DH force weapon would get rid of him.

Ahh... the periodical NFW question . Not a month goes by without one these. Yes, DH have a non-errated description in their own Codex on how Force Weapons work for them. No "Eternal Warrior" or Yarricks ability against Deamon Hunters. Enjoy this gem until ( hopefully ) GW finally updates the remaining legacy Codexes to 5th.

A-P wrote:

Timmah wrote:

juppy wrote:I believe eternal warrior prevents yarrick from being slain by a force weapon outright.... slain outright and instant death are the same in context.. since DH codex is old and outdated they did not have the term instant death then..

Wrong.

DH force weapons still function the old way as they have the old rules in the codex. Codex trumps BGB. Any non DH force weapon would place him on his side. But I believe any DH force weapon would get rid of him.

Ahh... the periodical NFW question . Not a month goes by without one these. Yes, DH have a non-errated description in their own Codex on how Force Weapons work for them. No "Eternal Warrior" or Yarricks ability against Deamon Hunters. Enjoy this gem until ( hopefully ) GW finally updates the remaining legacy Codexes to 5th.

yep pretty much.
Don't worry though, DH assault cannons suck. So they have their good/bad stuff for being an old book.

Yarrick is an Eternal Warrior and henceforth immune to any form of instant death, including that of a force weapon or weapon double his toughness. In this case the Grandmaster's weapon would only cause one wound per unsaved wound dealt.

He's slain outright.

And then he gets to roll to stand back up.

And then he can teleport to the other side of the table, because he only has to be more than 1" from the combat.

Manstein wrote:Yarrick is an Eternal Warrior and henceforth immune to any form of instant death, including that of a force weapon or weapon double his toughness. In this case the Grandmaster's weapon would only cause one wound per unsaved wound dealt.

DH force weapons don't cause instant death like new (and crappier) force weapons.

Most everyone I know plays "slain outright" per the RAW if that helps any. I remove my Greater Daemons and the like when they're "slain outright." I think you should just roll off for it at the beginning of every game, as it probably won't happen that often and it's really a 50/50 chance of following the RAW anyway since "slain outright" isn't defined.

firebat wrote:He can get back up I'm pretty sure. The daemonhunters codex is outdated anyway, so I'm assuming the Imperial Guard one would be more relevant.

Besides... its Yarrick.

Yes. Yes. It is Yarrick after all.

no matter how many wounds it has (but count the actual amount inflicted for determining

According to this, wounds actually have been inflicted.

I would agree with Sourclams that he dies, falls over, and has a chance to stand back up. The teleporting is a side dish of silly, but technically legal. I might offer it up as a compromise if my opponant thought that he shoudln't get back up though.

I would say he was a chance to get back up as well. I suppose he does not get the eternal warrior but he can have a chance to come back.

So what are people basing their belief that he is 'losing his last wound' on with regards to NFW and "slain outright"?

Just curious, because I personally do not think there is a strict removal of wounds, merely a counting of what would have been remaining for combat resolution purposes.

I liken it to MTG where the difference between "removed from the game" and "placed in the graveyard" can be huge when it comes to related effects.

DoW

Yarrick is an EW, so force weapons won't affect him anyway

Your right Little lord Fauntleroy, but the problem is that Nemisis Force Weapons are seperate from force weapons and use the term "slain outright" and not instant death and people argue that slain outright and instant death are 2 seperate effects.

A little OT but can a NFW instant death an eternal warrior?

No, but it can remove the model outright
(Which is the same result, but gets around EW due to older wording).

Afrikan Blonde wrote:A little OT but can a NFW instant death an eternal warrior?

NFW's don't instant death stuff, they slay outright (yay rules) It was clarified in 5th ed that Force weapons now just cause instant death. However the rules for NFW are still written in the DH codex (codex trumps BGB) so they still can get around eternal warrior. (I believe)

What is the difference between slays outright and instant death?

One is a game rule that can be ignored with EW, and one is a phrase that explains what happens to a model when hit with a NFW.