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This update brings Necrons into 5th.

Main changes:
Removal of phase out
Army wide stubborn and relentless
Simplified living metal
Clarified WBB (because I like the image better than FNP)
Flayed Ones and Scarabs as troops
Most everything got a small stat increase (ie Warriors: guns AP to 4, T to 4(5))
S&P warriors/immortals
Bronze/Silver/Gold Lords with new items and 4 bodies.
Obelisk
Rather large changes to Tomb Spiders

I hope you like it

Please comment, and tell me what else I should add in, if Ive missed anything, or what needs clarifying.



***1.1 - changed Gauss***
***1.2 - changed AP vaules, Pariah save, cost of FO, cost and upgrades for Scarbs***

Not a bad start, a couple of thoughts.

-keep Phase Out
-giving units Relentless suddenly makes the Necrons much more mobile....this contrasts with fluff quite a bit. Do you want that?
-take a look at how the Necron rule worked for vehicle penetration in 4th Edition. See if you can bring this back...they were much deadlier to vehicles!

Phase Out - should i keep it at 25% (and would that need point costs lowering) or make it something else
Relentless - only affects a few units, and Necron stops then from running. (warriors/immortals have S&P, jet bikes have it anyway). With relentless, I just like the image of them walking ineveitably forward, fireing as they go
You mean the 6 to glance? Change it to 'If a weapon with 'Gauss' would not score a penatrating hit on a roll of a 6, instead a penatationg hit with a -1 modifier is automaticly inflicted'?
This would be worse vs AV10/11 and better vs AV13/14. - changed

I think it makes more sense for them to have Fearless as opposed to stubborn. It would be more balanced to as necrons would actually be PENALIZED for losing combats, yet not to the extreme degree they are now.

Black Antelope wrote:Phase Out - should i keep it at 25% (and would that need point costs lowering) or make it something else
Relentless - only affects a few units, and Necron stops then from running. (warriors/immortals have S&P, jet bikes have it anyway). With relentless, I just like the image of them walking ineveitably forward, fireing as they go
You mean the 6 to glance? Change it to 'If a weapon with 'Gauss' would not score a penatrating hit on a roll of a 6, instead a penatationg hit with a -1 modifier is automaticly inflicted'?
This would be worse vs AV10/11 and better vs AV13/14. - changed

-Keep Phase Out at 25%, not a drastic points change, but I would keep it.
-Relentless works in this case. With S&P, Rapid Fire weapons, then Relentless makes sense.
-Yes, 6's automatically glance. This makes them deadlier against all levels of vehicles. It also gives even the basic warriors something to shake at against armor!

I like relentless, but ap 4? ow thats a bit much, phase out must remain i agree.

KommanderKurtikai wrote:I like relentless, but ap 4? ow thats a bit much, phase out must remain i agree.

Possibly remove AP4 and make it AP5, but the guns glance all vehicles on a 6

Lower destroyers Ap to AP3. Warriors: 5, Immortals 4: destroyers: 3, H. destroyers 2.

Put the blasters back to ap5.

I also think that H. Destroyers should have a range of 36''. Theyre relentless, so they have a 12'' movement anyway, and can still shoot.

Also fearless does pretty much nothing for the necrons unless you replace Wbb with Fnp. In fact it makes them worse, because the unit that would normally sweep the necrons, would be locked in combat for 1 more round, as the 3 or 4 necrons inevitably die. (they used to get sweeped, and then you could fire away, since hopscotching doesnt happen anymore). Its either replace with fnp, or give them all I4, which i really dont think is in the cards.

I like the endless swarm idea w/ the Tomb Spyders + Scarabs, and expecially the earthquake orb. (well realy just because theres always craters at the GW, and it would be cool to make an enemy unit take dangerous terrain tests).

I can think of no reason whatsoever why phase out should stay.

Please if you can then tell me because i'm not seeing it. sure its fluffy but fluffy is not necessarily good (as evidenced by other codexes. Possessed anyone) The only other reason I can think of is that everyone else who plays against necrons likes an easy win.

Ive never phased out, so i dont find it that much of a problem, besides that it makes it to i have to limit my choices to Lord, 30+ warriors, and destroyers.

*No Phase out would let necrons actually have some variety in thier lists instead of trying to jam as many models as they can in a list to max of the phase out value.

Heavy Ds should stay AP1. Possibly go to S10 instead/in addition. They are described as one of the best anti-vehicle weapons in the galaxy, and the signature picture shows a Heavy Gauss Cannon punching all the way though a Land Raider and coming out the other side. One or the other needs to stay or they just won't be very good anti-vehicle.

I'm not sure I5 makes the Flayed Ones good enough at melee. I believe a good chunk of their points is tied up in the current Terrifying Visage rule, when it is removed (like it should be) they should drop in points. Equal points in Assault Marines creates a faster, more dangerous unit after all, and Assault Marines aren't exactly the cream of the melee crop.

Spyders need that +1A, but 11/11 vehicles scream 'kill me now' even with living metal. It's just so easy to get penetrating hits on AV 11.

Wraiths needed a boost, but Hit and Run doesn't make them kill any better. Turning them into a pure harassment unit may be the superior option. You don't see hit and run a lot, so I think it's hard to judge.

Pariahs need that extra attack badly, but that 5+ looks too good for 35 each.

S'n'P Warriors and Immortals? x(x+1) toughnesses everwhere? Wierd, delayed FnP? All seem too complex, and makes the slowest army in the game even slower. This army has to depend on Monoliths to take objectives in the opponent's side of the table, as Obelisks simply won't survive long enough unless you are tabling your opponent anyway. I'd limit bike toughness boosts to models that move like jetbikes only. Even with the toughness boosts, I don't think the army's survivability has increased enough to offset the higher costs except when it comes to melee.

WD40 wrote:Lower destroyers Ap to AP3. Warriors: 5, Immortals 4: destroyers: 3, H. destroyers 2.
Wow, AP3 destoyers would be powerful indeed. Ill try it, with a appropraite points increase

Put the blasters back to ap5. - this seems to be a common theme. I was just trying to differencate them from boltguns.

I also think that H. Destroyers should have a range of 36''. Theyre relentless, so they have a 12'' movement anyway, and can still shoot.

I like the endless swarm idea w/ the Tomb Spyders + Scarabs, and expecially the earthquake orb. (well realy just because theres always craters at the GW, and it would be cool to make an enemy unit take dangerous terrain tests).

Yay, you like my idea

The Grog wrote:Heavy Ds should stay AP1. Possibly go to S10 instead/in addition. They are described as one of the best anti-vehicle weapons in the galaxy, and the signature picture shows a Heavy Gauss Cannon punching all the way though a Land Raider and coming out the other side. One or the other needs to stay or they just won't be very good anti-vehicle.
If they get to S10 AP1, they start to infringe on railguns

I'm not sure I5 makes the Flayed Ones good enough at melee. I believe a good chunk of their points is tied up in the current Terrifying Visage rule, when it is removed (like it should be) they should drop in points. Equal points in Assault Marines creates a faster, more dangerous unit after all, and Assault Marines aren't exactly the cream of the melee crop.
Ill drop them to 20 - but remember, unlike Assault marines, they can score

Spyders need that +1A, but 11/11 vehicles scream 'kill me now' even with living metal. It's just so easy to get penetrating hits on AV 11.
The old ones died easily enough. just take several, and they are much stronger. Living Metal is increadibly powerful

Wraiths needed a boost, but Hit and Run doesn't make them kill any better. Turning them into a pure harassment unit may be the superior option. You don't see hit and run a lot, so I think it's hard to judge.

Pariahs need that extra attack badly, but that 5+ looks too good for 35 each.
I'll knock it down to 6+*, but they are still limited by not being necrons, and now being a 0-1

S'n'P Warriors and Immortals? x(x+1) toughnesses everwhere? Wierd, delayed FnP? All seem too complex, and makes the slowest army in the game even slower. This army has to depend on Monoliths to take objectives in the opponent's side of the table, as Obelisks simply won't survive long enough unless you are tabling your opponent anyway. I'd limit bike toughness boosts to models that move like jetbikes only. Even with the toughness boosts, I don't think the army's survivability has increased enough to offset the higher costs except when it comes to melee.

-Flayed ones can DS/Infiltate/Outflank, Warriors can Veil. I think the army has enough options about taking objectives. And failing that, just stick 20odd warriors and a res orb lord on your objective, and contest theirs with jetbikes.

I was thinking about the Necrons being vulnerable to sweeping advances, and thought that instead of running away when they lose a combat, they get teleported to a monolith. As opposed to giving them relentless/stubborn/fearless.

For the next necron turn the monolith would count as having used it's teleport function.

And yes, I made an account just for this post

As a guy who plays against necrons often, Veil lets them get out of combat and is annoying as hell. They need a weakness, not just "we re-roll every time to get back up cuz of X rule." Phase out should stay.

If they get to S10 AP1, they start to infringe on railguns

So?

In the Necron Codex they make a point about a Heavy Destroy shooting right through a Land Raider, and point out that whilst the Imperium can do the same thing, the power generator required would be star-ship mounted.

Heavy Destroyers need to be dangerous. S9 or S10 AP1 makes them dangerous.

Honestly, for a shooting army, the tau guns arent that great. I think tau + nids need an update before necrons do. (if you ask what that has to do with anything, i was refering to H. Destroyers infringing on railguns, which honestly arent that great)

The difference though, between the H. Destroyers having str 10 ap1 and railguns is, railguns cost a minimum of 75pts each. H. destroyers are 65, and they're way more mobile than broadsides. I suppose the range has to be taken into account to. Why would they need to be AP1?

Instead of making them Str 10 AP1, just make thier cost less, or make them heavy 2.

I think they should change phase out. I'd say give the necrons LD 10 and stubborn, but change phase out so that any unit that fails a morale test phases out instead of fleeing. Necrons wouldn't need to be concerned about phase out during army selection, but phase out is still there to counteract the extremely high survivability of necrons.

Phase out with a failed morale test isnt a good idea at all. That would nerf the entire army. The chances of failing at ld 10 is slim, but in assault you're already gonna get swept, but if you lose 25% casaulties, and fail the test (slim chances, but really...). Every other army can regroup, why should necrons have a unit phase out. Thats terrible

I kinda like necrons being frail in assault. If they get swept in 1 turn, then that means whatever assaulted them ends up being a suicide unit, because a portion of the rest of the army can take them out the following turn.

If necrons get stubborn + feel no pain (which they still cant use against genestealers), and the ability to stand up in CC, then that just means that your enemies get the benefit of protection from a round or two of fire while the rest of the enemy army can try to dwindle your numbers.

Necrons arent gonna win battles of attrition, so that means you're gonna have to take monoliths to get them out of combat, save some casualties, and then fire on the assaulting unit, but beacuse the monolith is going to get nerfed, im not a fan of this.

I dont want to spend 600 points and 2 Heavy support slots so that i can pull the necrons out of CC. I'd rather stick to my normal strategy of having lots of warriors, so i can afford to have 2 or 3 units get swept. That might sound crazy, but it works.