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I've got a problem understanding these rules on the Monolith.

I recently played in a tourney and one of my opponents was Necrons. Now, I got into CC with his Warriors (who were standing right next to his Monolith). I ended up knocking down the entire unit, but for some reason they weren't removed. Next turn, he teleported that same unit to his Monolith and they got re-rolls on their WBB rolls.

I'm no expert at Necron rules, so could someone help me on this?

If the entire unit was knocked down, unless there was a model of the exact same type within 6 inches of the unit, they do not get the chance to get back up.

The monolith can give them the chance to re-roll the WBB roll (using power matrix teleport) but only if they could get back up in the first place.

If the whole unit was knocked down, then that unit is gone. However any of the indiviual warriors that are within six inches of another warrior are allowed to join that unit if they pass their WWB roll. If that unit then uses the Monolith then are allowed to reroll any failed WWB rolls.

Thanks. I think I may have been cheated against though...

Of any of the scenarios listed above, none were the case during our battle. The closest thing to these Warriors was the Monolith. It is also worth mentioning that I had Ghazghkull in that CC, who is using a S10 power fist, yet his Warriors only got knocked over. His Necron Lord did have the Rez Orb, but IIRC he was too far away to give the bonus.

Yep, cheated against, unless your memory is faulty. But from what you've said, there was a rule breech.

Did he have a tomb spider?

1. Is there another unit of warriors within 6" of the downed unit. Roll WBB for ALL downed models in the unit (not just the within 6")
2. Is the a tomb spyder within 12" and another unit of warriors on the board of any model of the downed unit then roll WBB.
3. Must satisfy one of these 2 conditions first, before a WBB attempt can be made.
4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.

The nooby necron players would be the ones using monoliths, instead of bulking up on warriors/destroyers.

Sounds like he swindled you! D:

Camarodragon is right.

Keep in mind that a necron will never get a WBB from death or glory (even with an orb).

Also, if you're in combat with a bunch of warriors, and you kill 7/10 of them, before they get sweeped. The 7 ones you killed get a WBB if they satisfy the conditions Camarodragon said. If you killed them with power weapons, then they need to be within orb range as well.

Aduro wrote:If the whole unit was knocked down, then that unit is gone. However any of the indiviual warriors that are within six inches of another warrior are allowed to join that unit if they pass their WWB roll. If that unit then uses the Monolith then are allowed to reroll any failed WWB rolls.

Almost. A unit has to have a least one member standing to benefit from Monolith re-rolls. If the WHOLE unit is knocked down, then any who are within 6" of another like unit and MAKE their WBB join that unit. If the second unit gets teleported through the 'Lith, the models from the first do NOT get re-rolls, as the ones who failed are NOT part of the second unit.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Camarodragon wrote:1. Is there another unit of warriors within 6" of the downed unit. Roll WBB for ALL downed models in the unit (not just the within 6")

Again, close.

Codex: Necrons 2nd printing, pg. 13 wrote:
......Additionally, the self-repair ability only works if the wounded Necron is within 6" of another model of the same type, although not necessarily of the same unit.

Emphasis mine.

As you can see, WBB is determined on a model-by-model basis, not unit-by-unit.

Hat tip Lordhat!!..

Looks like ive been playing it wrong all this time. Although I cant remember a time where its actully came up.

So check your range from model to model.

Camarodragon wrote:1. Is there another unit of warriors within 6" of the downed unit.

No, again the closest thing to these Warriors was the Monolith. There was another unit of Warriors nearby, but we did that CC first and my Kommandos caught them in Sweeping Advance, and he removed the Warriors like he was supposed to.

Camarodragon wrote:2. Is the a tomb spyder within 12" and another unit of warriors on the board of any model of the downed unit

He had no Spyders at all. He was shouting about how much they suck. Those things would be the whole reason I'd start Necrons

Camarodragon wrote:4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.

The way this guy did it was he teleported the Warriors out of combat, they appear in front of the Monolith, and he makes WBB rolls with re-rolls. Now, they count as exiting a transport when they do this, so wouldn't doing the above be the equivalent of entering AND exiting a transport on the same turn? The BRB says you cannot do this.

Now I had the feeling something wasn't right when he was pulling all these Necron tricks. I have fought Necrons before and I am aware that they like playing a different game. When I questioned him on these rules he just asked his nearby buddy who claimed to have been playing Necrons for 12 years. Have Necrons even been around that long?

I said years of experience doesn't mean gak if you don't understand your own rules

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:

Camarodragon wrote:4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.

The way this guy did it was he teleported the Warriors out of combat, they appear in front of the Monolith, and he makes WBB rolls with re-rolls. Now, they count as exiting a transport when they do this, so wouldn't doing the above be the equivalent of entering AND exiting a transport on the same turn? The BRB says you cannot do this.

No they arent entering and exiting...they never actually enter the monolith...they phase out of their current position and emerge from the portal in front of the monolith...the monolith actually has no transport capability and cannot carry units inside of it...and yes they can be teleported out of CC as per the power matrix rule on P 22 of their codex.

Shake Zoola wrote:

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:

Camarodragon wrote:4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.

The way this guy did it was he teleported the Warriors out of combat, they appear in front of the Monolith, and he makes WBB rolls with re-rolls. Now, they count as exiting a transport when they do this, so wouldn't doing the above be the equivalent of entering AND exiting a transport on the same turn? The BRB says you cannot do this.

No they arent entering and exiting...they never actually enter the monolith...they phase out of their current position and emerge from the portal in front of the monolith...the monolith actually has no transport capability and cannot carry units inside of it...and yes they can be teleported out of CC as per the power matrix rule on P 22 of their codex.

I see. Thanks.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:No, again the closest thing to these Warriors was the Monolith.

No one's saying that it has to be the closest unit, just that it's within 6".

Also, if you're in combat with a bunch of warriors, and you kill 7/10 of them, before they get sweeped. The 7 ones you killed get a WBB if they satisfy the conditions Camarodragon said. If you killed them with power weapons, then they need to be within orb range as well.

I don't believe this is correct. If the unit gets swept, even the necrons laying down are removed. No WBB.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:[...ho claimed to have been playing Necrons for 12 years. Have Necrons even been around that long?

Nope, IIRC the very first 'Necron Raider' came on the front of a white dwarf 10 or 11 years ago, and were not even really an 'army'. They didn't get an army list until more than a year later (with only about half a dozen units in it), and not even a proper codex until a few years after that.

This thread and all it's different interpritations of WWB reminds me why I can't wait for it to be replaced by FNP.

Aduro wrote:This thread and all it's different interpritations of WWB reminds me why I can't wait for it to be replaced by FNP.

Course, it seems like 50% of the players don't understand FNP either, given the regularity with which it comes up on here..........................

Lordhat wrote:

Aduro wrote:If the whole unit was knocked down, then that unit is gone. However any of the indiviual warriors that are within six inches of another warrior are allowed to join that unit if they pass their WWB roll. If that unit then uses the Monolith then are allowed to reroll any failed WWB rolls.

Almost. A unit has to have a least one member standing to benefit from Monolith re-rolls. If the WHOLE unit is knocked down, then any who are within 6" of another like unit and MAKE their WBB join that unit. If the second unit gets teleported through the 'Lith, the models from the first do NOT get re-rolls, as the ones who failed are NOT part of the second unit.

I think this is a little more gray than you give it credit for. If the necrons are destroyed, and their models join a nearby unit, the WBB rolls that are made for the entire squad could all apply to a single unit. While it is not spelled out anywhere, I am not sure that the downed necrons can be considered a separate unit. I've looked and I don't think it says anywhere that they are still the same unit. I'm also not sure when the line is crossed and an old necron unit becomes part of a new one. And as necrons no longer need to be within 6" of another of the same type when they re-roll via the monolith as long as they were originally eligible to roll WBB, I think it is still murky waters.

Well, they are certainly not part of the unit which they join upon making a WBB, primarily because they don't join it until AFTER they make a WBB. So what unit are they part of, if not their original unit? They aren't. Basically, there isn't any gray that is not constructed by those trying to confuse the issue. The downed Necrons are not part of any unit, assuming the whole unit got downed.

That has some huge implications...makes necron lords a liability in some cases. As I understand it, that would mean the enemy gets a KP every time they kill a necron lord, if he gets downed after getting back up multiple times (as he is wont to do).

Interesting thought. It would be pretty much the same as the Tyranid without number, correct?

Kill points are only awarded after a unit has been killed, i.e. removed as a casualty. The Necron lord that is down can get back up as the exact same unit he already was (while down is does not count as a unit, but he also does not count as a killed unit.) If he fails WBB, kill point awarded, if not, thank you for playing, please try again.

Without number actually REPLACES the unit with one of the exact same profile. One unit is killed, one unit is created granting one kill point.

In the case of an entire unit of necrons being downed, but still being able to WBB (unit within 6" whatever...) that unit is destroyed, provide a kill point. The necrons that make the WBB roll join the closes unit and that unit that is closest only becomes bigger.

You do realize that's a contradiction, right?

Units being killed is not defined for us (as are a lot of other things) so there is not a RAW concrete answer that I can provide. Perhaps someone else can.

The necron rules refer to wound loss.

Pg. 13 "Any Necron model that is reduced to 0 Wounds, or would otherwise be removed as a casualty, remains on the table top and laid on its side...."

If wound loss equaled being killed, the a lone SM Captain could be "killed" 3 times for 3 wounds lost, awarding 3 kill points.

May I just ask (to save the hassle of opening a new thread), do necrons get WBB if they were shot at by something with AP3-1 but with a strength of lower than 8 (i.e hot-shot lasgun)? Getting very confused...

It wrote:May I just ask (to save the hassle of opening a new thread), do necrons get WBB if they were shot at by something with AP3-1 but with a strength of lower than 8 (i.e hot-shot lasgun)? Getting very confused...

Yes. Only close combat weapons that do not allow saves deny WBB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omega_Warlord wrote:Kill points are only awarded after a unit has been killed, i.e. removed as a casualty. The Necron lord that is down can get back up as the exact same unit he already was (while down is does not count as a unit, but he also does not count as a killed unit.) If he fails WBB, kill point awarded, if not, thank you for playing, please try again.

Without number actually REPLACES the unit with one of the exact same profile. One unit is killed, one unit is created granting one kill point.

In the case of an entire unit of necrons being downed, but still being able to WBB (unit within 6" whatever...) that unit is destroyed, provide a kill point. The necrons that make the WBB roll join the closes unit and that unit that is closest only becomes bigger.

Kitzz wrote:You do realize that's a contradiction, right?

I don't see it as a contradiction. You don't Tally KP's until the end of the game.

Lord A is reduced to 0 wounds. Lord A makes his WBB roll on the Necron player's next turn, and stands up. Unit 'Lord A' is still on the board at the end of the game, no KP.


'Warrior unit A' is reduced to 0 models, 5 models stand up and join 'Warrior unit B'. 'Warrior unit A' is NOT on the board at the end of the game, one KP.

In the instance of without number, each iteration of a unit is seperate:'unit a', 'unit a-1', 'unit a-2', etc. In this way 'Unit a-4' can be on the board at the end of the game but 'units a-1 through a3' still give up kp's.

What makes the lord different? Why does he still count as the same unit?

Kitzz wrote:What makes the lord different? Why does he still count as the same unit?

Because you lay him on his side then he ether gets up or he doesn't. If the lord gets up he's not dead. If he is dead he doesn't get back up.

The real fun part is when enouh warriors from one unit go down that some of them are closer to a different unit that the surviving members of their orginal unit.

So, unit A takes a bunch of wounds and warriors end up closer to unit B. Some of them pass their WWB and as per the rules they join the closest unit, unit B. Now, unit A uses a Monolith portal. What happens to the warriors who were closer to unit B now?

They stay with unit B, and do not get teleported. The warriors automatically become part of the unit they 'WBB to'. This isn't a problem as they don't NEED the Portal to re-roll (they passed their WBB.