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Hi all! I'm new to the 40k game and very new to this forum so you will have to excuse some of my lack of knowledge. I've been reading through lots and there is tons of info here! Can't wait to learn from the talent on this board

Anyway, just returned from my local Games Workshop and played a Planetstrike campaign game against someone using Chaos Daemons. He was defending and I was attacking. I'm sure as many of you know, there is a bastion (or multiple) that can be used in the Planetstrike game. The Daemon player used a model from the fantasy game, trying to create similar rules around it that a bastion would use since Daemons cannot utilize a bastion.

The problem is, some of his rules give him a HUGE advantage in the game. The rules were cleared through the staff at the shop, but many are becoming very frustrated when playing him due to the advantage.

I was trying to help him with a few others re-figure his ideas but I thought I'd post here and see what some of you Chaos Daemon players are doing for this. Any help or suggestions would be awesome!

Thanks everyone


-Jason

Did he summon all his Daemons?

obiwan2 wrote:I'm sure as many of you know, there is a bastion (or multiple) that can be used in the Planetstrike game. The Daemon player used a model from the fantasy game, trying to create similar rules around it that a bastion would use since Daemons cannot utilize a bastion.

Why can't daemons utilize a bastion??

Daemons start off the board - this is true. They get summoned into the battle. But, bastions are not required to be occupied initially, the automated (Possessed?) weaponry will still fire, and if the daemons move to the bastions, they're able to enter them like any other infantry unit would be.


My recommendation - make sure your opponent knows that he can use the normal bastions, and then use those rules, even if he would rather use a fantasy tower for thematic reasons.

Planetstrike isn't regular 40k, it's more like apocalypse, where you need to work a bit with the rules to have fun.

Defending demons who use 1 bastion and don't start on the board, isn't planetstrike. If you're assaulting in mass against a demon held world, doesn't it make sense that there are actually demons there? We just have the demon player set up his forces like every other player. Let Planetstrike rules override normal codex rules. They do so for force org, and deployment already as it is.

The problem is, some of his rules give him a HUGE advantage in the game. The rules were cleared through the staff at the shop, but many are becoming very frustrated when playing him due to the advantage.

What rules are giving him the advantages? If he's defending, his deepstriking troops can't assault, that's only the attacker. If he is only using one bastion, you win if you have 1, (one), model in base to base with that bastion. You can deepstrike turn 1 onto the board with no problem, and take it. Leaving all his units in reserve should lose him the game, in Planetstrike.

Yes, the planetstrike rules do make it slightly different as mikhaila stated. I don't know a lot about the Chaos Daemons but the player using them said that they are not allowed to use bastions. I suggested that he merely say that, during planetstrike, they can use them.

As far as what he's using now, he uses a terrain piece from fantasy (with the chaos symbol, skulls, etc. Not sure what model that is exactly, sorry. Like I said, I'm new to all of this. He counts it as two bastions. He has a shield over it so you cannot attack it before the game begins like you can with regular bastions using a strategim. He uses a daemonic gaze off the four sides of it, stating that they are similar to bolter pistols. He places it in the middle of the table and allows any of his daemons to deepstrike within 6 inches of it without scattering. Considering this terrain model takes up a vast majority of the game board anyway, that's something big in its own. He has a changeling he always uses inside which has 24 inch range to shoot from the said bastion. It is not open topped so they are considered to be inside the bastion. Anything within six inches outside the bastion gets attacked through something else he has too. I forget the rest of his rules but those are some. He says he cleared it through the shop managers at Gamesworkshop but I still say it's very unfair.

Hopefully that makes sense. It's been a long day but wanted to see what you guys had written back. Thank you for your input! Like I said, I was curious if other players have run across anything similar or what is being done to compensate for them not being able to use a bastion....

obiwan2 wrote:
As far as what he's using now, he uses a terrain piece from fantasy (with the chaos symbol, skulls, etc.)

Temple of Skulls? That's a nice model, I'd allow it to count as a daemonic bastion...

He counts it as two bastions. He has a shield over it so you cannot attack it before the game begins like you can with regular bastions using a strategim.

Ok, that part sounds unfair - if you can bombard a building from orbit, you can bombard a temple of skulls from orbit.

He uses a daemonic gaze off the four sides of it, stating that they are similar to bolter pistols.

Instead of automated heavy bolters - you know, that's fair, it's a race-specific mod, and it's not out of line. Replacing lascannons with bolt of tzeentch would likewise be fair. (lose a point of S, gain a point of AP, lose 24" of range, sure, it all balances out)...

He places it in the middle of the table

That's fair, defender sets up terrain.

and allows any of his daemons to deepstrike within 6 inches of it without scattering. Considering this terrain model takes up a vast majority of the game board anyway, that's something big in its own.

That is big, and, unfair. I'd object to this if I were playing against him. Part of playing daemons is accepting the downsides to playing daemons, and part of that is coping with scatter.

He has a changeling he always uses inside which has 24 inch range to shoot from the said bastion. It is not open topped so they are considered to be inside the bastion.

Changeling can only affect one enemy unit per turn, and you get a Ld roll to avoid it. Plus, he has to get his guy into the bastion first. Attacker goes first - drop guys down blocking the doorway, and then the changeling will be stuck outside it.

Anything within six inches outside the bastion gets attacked through something else he has too. I forget the rest of his rules but those are some.

It seems like your opponent meant well initially, but went too far. Replacing imperial weapons with daemonic gifts fired from a temple of skulls is not unfair. Saying that you cannot target his temple with your opening bombardment and that it gives him an enormous icon as well is unfair, and there's nothing in the planetstrike rules that indicate this is reasonable.

He says he cleared it through the shop managers at Gamesworkshop but I still say it's very unfair.

What GW managers say has no bearing on anything in a game between two people, even if they're playing in the store. If you want, feel free to print out this post and bring it with if you want to explain why you don't think it is fair to play against him. And, if he insists, nothing says you have to play against him. There is no point to you getting upset over this guy's behaviour, just move on and find an opponent who doesn't want a one-sided game.

Bluntly, he's pulling crap

-Daemons are allowed to take bastions, even descibes one in the PS book.

-It should not be oversized

-The strategy that gives you a void shield protects one bastion, not two.

-Can't deepstrike within 6" with no error, no such strategy. He might have a way if he starts guys on the table, but that means he isn't using daemonic assault.

-Remember: Only 1 unit can be in each bastion. You cannot deepstrike inside a bastion.

-Sounds like the employees at the GW store are making up stuff, or he's cheating and saying they allowed it.

mikhaila wrote:
-It should not be oversized

Why not? The Planetstrike book gives plenty of examples of people making oversized bastions using multiple bastion kits.

mikhaila wrote:If you're assaulting in mass against a demon held world, doesn't it make sense that there are actually demons there?

This is true of Daemons as a whole, not just in Planetstrike. Their rules for summoning simply don't make any logical sense. Half the army should start on the table in every mission.

Redbeard wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
-It should not be oversized

Why not? The Planetstrike book gives plenty of examples of people making oversized bastions using multiple bastion kits.

The rules let you make a large fortress, composed of several bastions. The examples show that each of the bastion sized areas count as a separate bastion. In his post above, he said: Considering this terrain model takes up a vast majority of the game board anyway

Now, when someone says "vast majority of the board", I'm thinking 3+ square feet, which is very abusive, especially since it counts as only two bastions.

12"x12" is plenty for two bastions. Pieces I'm making that use 4 of the GW kits don't take up a full square foot. This is way beyond what the book suggests.
Especially with special rules that let him not scatter within 6" of the 'bastion'.

If you read how he described it, it's the Temple of Skulls piece. It's probably as big as two bastions combined, not four, and certainly not 3+ square feet.

Redbeard wrote:If you read how he described it, it's the Temple of Skulls piece. It's probably as big as two bastions combined, not four, and certainly not 3+ square feet.

If it's the temple of skulls, then it's not the "vast majority" of the board, and the OP is exaggerating. Not having seen it,I went with what he posted.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback!

It is the Temple of Skulls model. I would estimate it's a 12" x 6" model....and with being able to deep strike without scattering anywhere withing six inches from it....THAT covers a vast majority of the boards that games workshop uses (if you're using 1 table only). That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

I think I might print this up and show it to him to at least let him see some different points of view

A quick question: Have all the people playing plantstrike bought and read the book? I know that could lead to a lot of half formed ideas about how to run the mission.