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Trying to kit out my chaos marine army with heavy weapons and I'm having a hard time making a decision about which heavy weapon (or weapons) to use with my marines. So I'd like to hear your thoughts/suggestions.I normally run up against other MEQs/IG but there is one eldar player as well. Usually 1500ish point games.

I like the missile launcher for its versatility but the autocannon is definitely attractive for the high quantity of fairly tough shots. The main reason I currently use ML's over autocannons is simply because I cannot find autocannons for a reasonable price but I'm trying to get some asap. For a havoc squad I was thinking of 6-8 havocs armed with 2 missile + 2 autocannon or just 4x autocannon, how does that sound? I don't really like the lascannon because there are better weapons against armor (ie melta, even autocannons because high volume of similar strength shots) and better weapons against infantry. Heavy bolters...really lost favor with me because of the shorter range, low strength, and sad armor penetration, why not just have a bolter squad?

I think a lot of people reach for oblits(and I will probably have a few on hand) but I really like havocs for the sheer amount of shots you can get for a relatively low cost(4x autocanon = 8x 7str 4ap shots!) and with plenty of sacrificial lambs to eat up high strength/ap shots. Predators are nice in 5th because armor became a bit tougher, but I don't normally have enough armor in 1500pts to keep a pred/defiler from being the main target for anti-armor.

So what are your favorite heavy weapons to take and in what kinds of squads do you prefer to take them in?

Missile Launcher is the most versatile, though a second special weapon would be superior in pretty much every way.

I prefer 1 Melta 1 Plasma on my regular CSM squads. Their jobs often overlap. Unless im shooting at AV14 the plasma will help the meltagun kill vehicles, and the meltagun will help the plasmagun kill termies and MEQs and whatnot.

For havocs 4x flamer or 4x Melta in a rhino is terrifying, and their special weapons dont cost an arm and a leg.

Special weapons is a great way to go with Havocs.

Personally , I love Autocannons. 6 Models w/ 4 Autocannons.

Well I agree that plasma/meltas/flamers in a havoc squad is great, but I think for that I'd rather go with chosen and save a heavy slot and be able to infiltrate them and skip the rhino cost.

I think autocannons are a great weapon, the problem is finding them without paying $10+ for each one. I can find missile launchers for $0.50 so I can mass them pretty easily, plasma, meltas, and flamers are fairly cheap to get too but autocannons are killer. The vostroyan's have some bayoneted weapons that kinda look like autocannons, maybe I can convert some...

One thing about oblits over havoks is that oblits get plasma cannons. Against armor you get the extra shots when going with autocannons (although against armor your oblits can just shoot lascannons and have much better penetration over the havoks) but against infantry you will wind up hitting more with your small blast templates from plasma cannons and the PCs are AP2.

I think taking autocannons in your regular CSM squads is ok but your heavy slots are better served with oblits, vindicators, or defilers (in that order) or land raiders in you need trasports for assault troops.

Since the new codex came out I really have not considered havoks as a choice.

Autocannons. They absolutely smash things. Due to their point cost and number of shots, they outperform lascannons until AV13. I personally have dropped taking oblits and take havocs (4 autocannons) and 2 predators (with lascannon sponsons) for a whopping 12 autocannon shots a turn (and 4 lascannons, all for only ~400 points)

Autocannons can take down infantry with easy, and the 2 to wound instead of 3 makes it much better for T4 orks over heavy bolters. They will easily destroy light armoured vehicles. Theyre also better for taking down those pesky war walkers eldar have, as they get to roll more dice for their fortune saves.

I love them, and I converted 4 bolter marines into them last week. I have two defilers, which, in my opinion, should always have 2 CC arms, so I cut off the 2 twinlinked autocannons to make 4 single autocannons. I simply cut the nozzle of the bolt guns, cut down the autocannon barrel a bit, and glued it on. I then took the ammo belt, cut it in 4 small pieces, and glued them to the bottom of the bolter.

I took this pic just now with my iphone (garbage camera), so sorry for the blurriness, but you get the point. I think they look really good:




I felt good that I saved $80 on them, haha.

Personally I don't run havocs. Yeah, you can hide em and shoot the crap outta stuff. But I really can't find a way to take them over my land raiders or oblits until apoc :( But, putting that aside, I'd say Autocannons, Lascannons, or Missile Launchers are the way to go. Each is versatile, has a huge range, and can pen vehicles.

augustus5 wrote:One thing about oblits over havoks is that oblits get plasma cannons. Against armor you get the extra shots when going with autocannons (although against armor your oblits can just shoot lascannons and have much better penetration over the havoks) but against infantry you will wind up hitting more with your small blast templates from plasma cannons and the PCs are AP2.

I think taking autocannons in your regular CSM squads is ok but your heavy slots are better served with oblits, vindicators, or defilers (in that order) or land raiders in you need trasports for assault troops.

Since the new codex came out I really have not considered havoks as a choice.

I disagree with this completely. 3 oblits (225 points) get 3 lascannon shots.

2/3 will hit.

If in smoke/cover, 1/3 will hit.

2/3 chance youll pen the rhino, then its a 1/3 chance you wreck it.

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8 autocannon shots (155 points). 5-6 will hit.

If in smoke/cover, you have a lot more dice, so he cant simply roll two 4+s and prevent you from shooting. Youll get 3 saves.

With 3 dice (6 dice if not in cover!) and 4s to glance, 5s to pen, youre sure to do some good damage.

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Less points, and better light vehicle killers. With so many dice, youre not likely to miss all of them, which has happened to my 3 oblits on numerous occasions. Hitting is the problem with oblits, as those few dice are so crucial. Id much rather have 8 hitting on 3+ for less points.

Thank you night lord, that is a great idea and the autocannons you made look fantastic for a relatively little amount of work. I'll see if I can't find some cheap defiler autocannons to chop up from ebay.



PS: I really don't want this to become a havoc v oblits thread. This should just be about what heavy weapons you put on marines/havocs/chosen/etc. If you don't take them that's ok but there are plenty of threads with the oblit v havoc discussion going on.

I like heavy bolters..........
There prettyful.........

Heavy bolters are a good choice if you're hurting for anti-horde. Heavy bolters are also decent for anti-transport when in large numbers (not efficient, but decent).

However, for purely anti-horde you can't go wrong with 4 flamers, for about half the points.

Autocannons are versatile.
They can hunt light vehicles or walkers, infantry, and MCs.
I'd opt for a Havocs unit with 4 autocannons.

I'm finding this thread very helpful so far.

I tend to agree about the ACs over HBs except when it comes to anti-horde. One friend of mine plays orks and I always take ML and HB squads, can't go wrong with the # of shots and the small template helps a lot.

I think anti MEQ definitely take ACs and plasma guns, or even a lascannon or two. I always take a LR so I typically am not hurting for lascannons.

HBs are about a third of a wound better against horde lists.

This is a game of inches and fractions, a third of a wound is a third of a wound that could mean the difference between life and death.

I think heavy bolters are definitely a great option if you know you're going up against massed infantry, but autocannons are a great choice if you're not sure or they have a mixed army. I think the higher strength, better AP, and longer range more than make up for the extra attack.

Canonness Rory wrote:This is a game of inches and fractions, a third of a wound is a third of a wound that could mean the difference between life and death.

There wasnt necessarily a negative connotation in that comment, so he could have meant they were indeed better because of their wounding 1/3 more, although he could have meant they werent worth it.

Autocannons are nice.

For havocs i'd go with Meltas or Plasma.

I for one used to doubt the autocannon but it really is amazing. I wish I could take a preditor with 3x autocannons

JGrand wrote:I for one used to doubt the autocannon but it really is amazing. I wish I could take a preditor with 3x autocannons

Yea, that does seem to be an obvious option that isnt available. Why does it have a standard autocannon turret but no autocannon sponsons ? Maybe they know it's too good and want to force us to take the crazy expensive lascannons.

Are we talking Havocs? Autocannon. Or else 2x Autocannon, 1x ML, 1x Las.

Otherwise stick with Oblits. But Havocs are cool.

As for Heavy Bolters, it is just about the only place you can even take them unlike the SpaSe Marinez.

Tacobake wrote:Are we talking Havocs? Autocannon. Or else 2x Autocannon, 1x ML, 1x Las.

Otherwise stick with Oblits. But Havocs are cool.

As for Heavy Bolters, it is just about the only place you can even take them unlike the SpaSe Marinez.

We're not really talking about units as much as the weapons themselves and their best uses/pros v cons/etc.

As far as oblits, they are great up to a point, but I think people that mass them fail to comprehend the usefulness of the extra shots an autocannon squad of havocs can bring to the table(or flamer/melta/plasma) versus just a single shot per oblit. Plus for less than the price of 1 oblit you can get 2 autocannon havocs which is 4x the shots. Oblits definitely have their place for filling in with whatever you need to adjust for different army setups, but people seem to go crazy with them.

IMHO the best havocs are the ones that get the job done cheapest. They aren't scoring units, like CSM, and they aren't high-priority targets like oblits, so keep 'em cheap I say. 5 Havocs in a rhino with 4 special weapons, suicide rush at the enemy side-by-side with a CSM squad for target saturation, if they shoot the havocs the CSM get into position with 2 special weapons and 18 bolter shots, if they shoot the CSM the havocs get into position with 4 special weapons, and the CSM still limp into position unless they directed a TON of fire at them.

For the same points you could actually put a chaos vet squad on the table in a rhino and outflank. melta or plasma coming off the edge can be a pretty nasty surprise.

Autocannon with tank hunters.
Failing that...plasma cannons.

Hvy bolters: too much cover and too many too shoot down, if it was 4 shots I'd be a bit tempted.

AC:without tank hunters is lacklustre.
ML: the super flexible, but master of none deal, not my cup of tea.
Lascannons: taken a hit in 5th, unless you have really cheap lascannons en mass.

My 7 Cents.