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Suggestions for a SM army against nidzilla. He runs 4 carnifexes, 1 broodlord, 1 hive tyrant, 1 zoanthrope, 1 tw unit, 1 genestealer unit and 1 each of gaunts. I run about 1500 pt SM. I have a chaplain and termies, 1 pred A, whirlwind, sternguards, 2 tacticals, 1 combat, 1 dread, and 1 dev. Thanks in advance

i dont have any experience against nidzilla but i can imagine powerfists in combat against the monsterous creatures would work nicely, as well as krak missles (provided he doesnt have a two up save on them) and any other high strength low ap guns you can bring to pummel him with. other than that i cant offer anything else. hope this helps a little.

Just make sure to dedicate everything in your army towards the most threatening MC until it dies. Devs with any outfit are great, the dread will likely die against any MC, but will wreak some havoc in return. See if you can't use him to bully some gaunts.

The 2 tac squads should remain at arm's length with the MCs, and by arm's length I mean the kind of arms the constitution talks about, the shooty kind. Keep them at 24 inches and fire your heavy weapons at them. The sternguard's job should be obvious, they're dead killy vs tyranids. The pred should be the autocannon/lascannon variety, and will be very useful. See if you can't pick up a land raider to put your termies +cahppy in. I hope those termies are assault termies, if not make sure they have assault cannons.

Yeah unfortunately his carnis are almost all 2+ on their saves. I think that I am gonna have to put meltas on all my tacticals and just lascannons and MLs on my devs.

If that's the case the dread will be more useful in CC than normal, plasma would be better on your tacs since you still get 1 shot at 24 inches, autocannons would be better than missile launchers, but neither is as good as lascannons.

Secret to beating nidzilla is to focus fire on one MC at a time until it is dead. Don't deviate fire till it is dead and then move onto the next one.

Is his list ok with the standard force org chart? I just thought it seemed a bit heavy. Thanks for the tips, I am gonna upgrade a SM squad with flamer/melta, and another with flamer/HB. The devs will take 2 LCs and 2 MLs. And it will be a pred of the las type. the Termies now have 1 assault and the dread has a multi-melta.

I am gonna upgrade a SM squad with flamer/melta, and another with flamer/HB. The devs will take 2 LCs and 2 MLs.

So you're just going to ignore my advice?

Also, stern guard wounding on 2+ is nice. Don't forget that if you make then roll enough, they will fail a 2+ save.

If termies are assualt, don't be to afraid of running into a fex. Especially with lightning claws with chappy, lots of re-rolls.

Sick the combat squad on the shooting gaunts, they will probably win.

Just be sure to have your tanks supporting you infantry.
Target and time your shots right and you should drop a big bug a turn, maybe two.

Don't be afraid to choose to fall back if you want, that way you don't get assaulted.

Canonness Rory wrote:
So you're just going to ignore my advice?

No, I don't mean to ignore, I am just hesitant to put a plasma in a squad, I know its probably overly cautious, but I would rather not lose a man to accident. And I did make sure the pred was lascannon. And I just don't have a LR right now.

I'd drop the dread, too expensive since you can't risk it in CC. Use Thunder Hammer/SS termies and you'll mow down 'fexes.

I would probably drop the devs as well, I generally think they cost too much. Seriously consider some melta speeders or similar.

If you know for sure you're up against 'nids, take Plasma Guns instead of meltas. Longer range and double-tap in close helps a lot, and you only lose a point of S.

TH/SS termies have a 3+ invuln save.. That 3+ invlun save makes a world of difference. Suddenly instead of destroying 4 marines a turn, the 'fex will kill an average of just 1.

You can deliver this death through deep striking or land raiders. Against him, I would bring 30 thunder hammer terminators and bring them on the board through deep strike or normal deployment for 1200 points. That still leaves you 300 points for a commander, and some scouts to hold objectives. You might consider the idea of doing deathwing so you can use your termies to hold objectives.

Combat squad them into 6 squads and hilarity will ensue. 5 TH/SS termies will hit a 'fex (on the charge) 10 times. Thats over 8 wounds done, which more than kills a 'fex. Even if the fex charges your 5 termies, they will deliver 4 and 5/9 wounds on average to the fex -- killing it.

As an added bonus, they are cheap to buy in real life due to the boxed set having terminators. You can buy extra bits on ebay to convert them if required.

But wait, there's more! Even if by some miracle he has a model that survives the thunder hammer squad of doom, the hammers daze their target changing the target's initiative to a 1.

Also, check his list. To bring 4 'fex(s) you need to use some of them as elite choices -- which cannot go over 115 in points. The extended carapace biomorph automagically puts him over that limit, so make sure he is fully aware of his list.

If he uses rending claws he totals at 112 (85+25+8+4)

Method to beat Nidzilla style lists;

- Lascannons do wonders
- Lots of meltaguns
- Power Fists only if hes running no assault carnifexes. Reason? Because assault carnifexes go before the fist and will normally wipe more than half the unit.
- Shoot everything.

Carnifexes in the elite variation (which looks like hes running) die very easily. Heavy-fexes are stupidly hard to kill typically. What others said, FF the MC's down one at a time. DO NOT deploy near the edges. Shoot up genestealers because you will lose a lot trying to assault. Broodlords are chumps, they normally aren't worth their salt. One zoanthrope does very little, but if you fear it, knock it out quick with lascannons or something. It has 2 wounds and a 6+ invun, they're easy. And ignore gaunts unless you can drop templates over em. They're very weak against anything with T4+, depending on config. They usually are just used to tie up units in CC.

Also, if you can, pack all those marines you have into rhinos. At least then the gaunts are useless until their bigger stuff pops em.

labmouse42 wrote:TH/SS termies have a 3+ invuln save.. That 3+ invlun save makes a world of difference. Suddenly instead of destroying 4 marines a turn, the 'fex will kill an average of just 1.

You can deliver this death through deep striking or land raiders. Against him, I would bring 30 thunder hammer terminators and bring them on the board through deep strike or normal deployment for 1200 points. That still leaves you 300 points for a commander, and some scouts to hold objectives. You might consider the idea of doing deathwing so you can use your termies to hold objectives.

Combat squad them into 6 squads and hilarity will ensue. 5 TH/SS termies will hit a 'fex (on the charge) 10 times. Thats over 8 wounds done, which more than kills a 'fex. Even if the fex charges your 5 termies, they will deliver 4 and 5/9 wounds on average to the fex -- killing it.

As an added bonus, they are cheap to buy in real life due to the boxed set having terminators. You can buy extra bits on ebay to convert them if required.

But wait, there's more! Even if by some miracle he has a model that survives the thunder hammer squad of doom, the hammers daze their target changing the target's initiative to a 1.

Also, check his list. To bring 4 'fex(s) you need to use some of them as elite choices -- which cannot go over 115 in points. The extended carapace biomorph automagically puts him over that limit, so make sure he is fully aware of his list.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Termies. I have been meaning to get some AT with TH/SS I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Like I said, I think his list is waaaay heavy. So thanks for the check on the fex's, also I forgot he runs a few raveners, do they count as FA?

Yes raveners are FA and bolters = death and those guys are a point sink.

JEB_Stuart wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:
So you're just going to ignore my advice?

No, I don't mean to ignore, I am just hesitant to put a plasma in a squad, I know its probably overly cautious, but I would rather not lose a man to accident. And I did make sure the pred was lascannon. And I just don't have a LR right now.

You have a 1/18 chance to lose a single marine to overheating. You also gave them heavy bolters (the worst heavy weapon option for them) and missile launcher. Give them both lascannons, it's your best chance.

Omega_Warlord wrote:Yes raveners are FA and bolters = death and those guys are a point sink.

Good to know

Raveners are the third worst nid unit behind Hormagaunts and Gargoyles. Just bolter them to death, they're chumps!

Zid wrote:Raveners are the third worst nid unit behind Hormagaunts and Gargoyles. Just bolter them to death, they're chumps!

Agreed, just played a match and they didn't even make it to the field, but they would have gotten mowed down by my termies anyway.

Plasmaguns are typically the best option vs big bugs. Meltas might wound more often but you get more shots this way. SInce you have sternguard take advantage of the combi-weapons. Either flamer or plasma. Also, make sure each sarg has a combi-weapon.

If you come up with extra cash..

Multimelta/Heavy Flamer Speeders should be helpful vs both the stealers and the big bugs. Once you kill his scoring units you can pretty much just wear him down. I'd also take a couple razorbacks for the extra firepower and ability to hide part of your squads..

Ok, here's what I would do. Run yourself two devestator squads. One with four lascannons, and the other with four Heavy Bolters. Then put lysadner in the Heavy Bolter devestators. The Lascannons will eat through his carnifex's while the heavy bolters will eat through his troops like breakfast. set the both of them in high ground in the center of the table at your back edge. Keep AP2 or better weapons in the tacticals along with power fists. The TH/SS terminators will provide backup in case of a carnifex assault. It's difficult, but concentrating fire (and a minimal amount of 1's rolled) should make you fine.

How is the Dreadnought equiped at the moment. I fight Tyranids the most out of all the 40k races and Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer seems to go well. If they're CC Fexes do not get into CC with them. The same with the smaller stuff like Gaunts if the Fexes are nearby. If they are far enough away that it would probably take a couple of turns for one to join go for it. Dreadnoughts are alright, but you can use it as bait if it looks like it will be killed soon. Vindicators are good against them as well, but I wouldn't get too many as it's only one attack against the Fexes, they're for taking out the smaller things.

The Autocannon Predator would probably go well against that as well. Also, like someone said before if your going to use terminators use SS/TH. But, remember that the TH follows the rules of the Power Fist with the addition of adding crew stunned to each hit. What it means is that if you use it, you're striking at I1 so they will usually go first. The benefit of it is the SS which will stop you from dieing. Pretty good deal seeing as they would actually cost less than the normal Terminator squad with an Assault Cannon. Depending on how many tanks you want to use you might want to consider using a Master of the Forge or a Techmarine, but usually if a fex gets into CC with a tank it is dead. This is just to fix up any weapon destroyed results.

Placement on the field is key as well. The heavy weapons should usually split off from the rest of the squad or the whole squad can sit with them on top of a building somewhere as you want to make sure you can shoot that weapon as much as possible. Meltas are probably a bad idea, Multimeltas are alright though. Lascannons are better.

If you can, combat squad the Tactical squads and put a Razorback with Twinlinked Lascannon with them. Possibly the Assault Cannon one instead, but the Lascannon one would probably work out better in the long run.


You're lucky he isn't using a winged CC Hive Tyrant. Those things are way better than the stuff he is using there. They move so fast they will take out a tank or two before they even tke a wound. If they do get one the best chance is to probably tie it up in CC as long as possible with a Tactical Squad until the SS/TH Terminators can join the fight. You'll most likely loss the Tactical squad though.

Edit: lol just noticed that you mentioned that he does have one.
If it has wings it's target 1, then move on to the next fastest thing as it will take longer for the fexes to reach you. But, be sure to keep moving to stall the fexes as long as possible. If the gaunts have without number they will usually be thrown at you to give the fexes something they can hit.

Mechanized marines are a really tough opponent for them.

Plenty of razorbacks, predators and speeders with the correct equipment and stay in your rides.

migsula wrote:Plenty of razorbacks, predators and speeders with the correct equipment and stay in your rides.

In principle yes.. Stay in the rhinos but that doesn't mean the entire game or even during deployment.

Getting a couple extra bolter shots off can really hurt the effectiveness of his gaunt units and definitely helps vs the stealers... I also find it pretty useful to throw a unit or two as sacrifices to keep the big bugs busy periodically throughout the game.. Fight on your terms, don't give him choices.

Against bugs... you can't really hope for complete annihilation without taking a few hits. At least make sure a unit gets to rapid fire it's weapons at least 1 time before dying. Knowing when is the key.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! Check out my battle report in its appropriate forum.

Yeah having played both a nidzilla-ish list and marines, I'd agree with alot of the advice in here. Definitely a unit of TH/SS terminators will ruin nidzilla, just watch for any traps (counter charge by good cc units). A solid mech list is also a pain to deal with for tyranids in general. Don't get dreads anywhere near a TMC, even iron clads get wrecked in CC with em.

As far as the list being illegal, a rough calc shows this to be perfectaly doable at 1500 even with some standard upgrades. It really depends on what those units actually comprise of, because it can also easily be over 1500.

winterman wrote: Definitely a unit of TH/SS terminators will ruin nidzilla, just watch for any traps (counter charge by good cc units.

Definitely. Lots of lower strength attacks are a great counter to TH/SS terminators.
A few weeks ago I had 7 of those termies dropped off out of a LR and I charged them with 2 squads of 30 ork boys. Not all the works were able to get into hand to hand combat, but enough got there to deliver enough attacks to whittle down the termies. Even when you save on a 2+, when you need to make 40 of them, ones will be rolled.

migsula wrote:Plenty of razorbacks, predators and speeders with the correct equipment and stay in your rides.

^^DO THIS

dereksatkinson wrote:
Getting a couple extra bolter shots off can really hurt the effectiveness of his gaunt units and definitely helps vs the stealers... I also find it pretty useful to throw a unit or two as sacrifices to keep the big bugs busy periodically throughout the game.. Fight on your terms, don't give him choices.

^^DO NOT DO THIS

I play both of these armies, so I know their strengths and weaknesses quite well. A unit of marines outside their transport is as good as dead. The nid's biggest weakness is dealing with armor, and the easiest way to defeat this list is by accentuating that. Just remember these 3 core tenants:

1. overload the nids with AV, not even necessarily good AV just make sure there's a lot. The nids have very limited AV shooting units, so saturate the field with targets to enhance your survivability.

2. STAY IN YOUR VEHICLES. A unit in your vehicle can only ever be assaulted if you are knocked out of the vehicle during the enemy's shooting phase. Exploit this, and use it as a free round of rapid-fire after your ride is destroyed.

3. KEEP MOVING. If there's any chance of assault, always move. period. If there's any chance of a MC assault, you better have a REALLY good reason not to move over 6".

Follow those, and you stand a good chance to win. As a followup, here's how to ruin his day...

I won't tell you exactly how to build your list, but these are the SM units that give the nids fits:

Speeders - Any type will work well, Typhoons are the best all-around against nids, but Melta/HB is a little cheaper and better in all-comers lists.
Predators - AC/HB is 85 points of tremendous Tyranid crushing power. Whatever you do, however, don't get greedy and forget rule 3
Land Raiders - Any kind will do here as well. The nids are at a horrible disadvantage trying to hurt these with shooting. If you can afford it, extra armor is well worth it in this battle.
Sternguard - Really expensive, but also really effective against any unit this army can throw at you. Against nids you must take em with...
Librarians - Hide them in the back ranks of your sternguard squads so they can't be base-to based in CC. GoI is crucial to prevent your Sternguard from being a 1-hit wonder. Smite is pretty great against MCs as well.


As much as I love em, Dreadnoughts aren't the greatest in these battles. Percentage-wise, they fight a losing battle in CC. Ironclads have a shot, but you have better options
TH/SS Terminators are pretty good as well, but the Nids do have ways of cleaning their clocks (devourers on fexes or Tyrants will grind Termies down frighteningly quickly) as well, plus, have tons of expendable units to feed them. They can work, but are not a sure-fire winner in this instance.

Hope that helps.

I know OP doesn't have any scout snipers, but I would think they have a shot at hurting fexes. 4+ to wound and rending on a six. Plus they have pretty good range.

I haven't tried it yet (haven't painted my scouts). Anyone have any experience using scout snipers vs MC?