Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Farseer
-Bike
-Fortune
-Doom
-Rune of Warding
-Spirit Stones
6 Warlocks
-Bikes
-2 Embolden
-4 Destructor
495

9 Dire Avengers
-Exarch
-Dual Catapults
-Bladestorm
Wave Serpent
-Spirit Stones
-Scatter Laser
-Shuriken Cannon
270

9 Dire Avengers
-Exarch
-Dual Catapults
-Bladestorm
Wave Serpent
-Spirit Stones
-Scatter Laser
-Shuriken Cannon
270

5 Pathfinders
120

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

total: 1500

This is quite similar to a list I posted a few weeks ago, but that list had Farseers/Eldrad on foot and Fire Dragons in a 3rd Serpent. How does everyone think this will stand up in competitive play

Looks quite good.
The Jetseer Council is a bit small. It can easily die from small arms fire.

How about dropping the DA squads to 5 man (no exarch), dropping a fire prism (or the patfhinders) and adding 1 FD squad in serpent (5 FDs, Wave Serpent w dual SCa = 190 pts iirc) and beefing up the council?

I'm mostly going by what I've heard, that you almost always want Fire Dragons in eldar lists and wuestenfux's comment about the council being small, so take it with a grain of salt :]

I tried the idea of taking 5 man Avenger squads, and it never worked for me, so I ended up back at 10 again, they are beastly after all.

As for Fire Dragons, I've been debating Dragons OR a Seer Council. Both would be a bit much I think.

I like 3 Prisms, because one most likely gets shaken every turn, leaving 2 to TL for the MEQ killer.

My biggest concern when writing this list was that with my Seer Council being the only non tank on the board (except Pathfinders, which are mostly ignored) they might attract all the Anti Infantry fire from the opponents army.

EDIT: I have been considering taking the Council off the Bikes and putting them in a transport, its almost exactly the same price, but this might wreck their killing power.

Let me know

EDIT: I have been considering taking the Council off the Bikes and putting them in a transport, its almost exactly the same price, but this might wreck their killing power.

Well, I'd keep the Jetseer Council as it can be in cc in turn 2 and in this way can silence enemy guns.
Positioning of the Council prior to the charge is key.

A player on heresy online commented that the Pathfinders are a liability since they're the only non mech unit I have, so I decided to replace them with Jetbikes, so I've edited the list to show this, what do you think?

Pathfinders can eat up silly amounts of non anti-cover firepower. They are immobile when shooting but with infiltrate and scout moves, they can get into really good positions from the beginning of the game and with their ability to ignore difficult terrain, they can move & fleet through cover and away from bad guys.

Jetbikes are alot more mobile and 3 are very cheap but; horribly easy to kill/break/send packing.

Three singing spears (one on the farseer and two on destructor locks) could provide a fairly reliable way to pop most transports during the shooting phase to allow you to charge the transported troops. It does diminish your close-combat ability by 3 attacks, out of a previous total of 24 attacks so it is significant. But those extra replacement shooting attacks will always be used (as charge range < singing spear range) so the loss in combat is slightly mitigated.

Other than that, I likes.

bobdole4eva wrote:A player on heresy online commented that the Pathfinders are a liability since they're the only non mech unit I have, so I decided to replace them with Jetbikes, so I've edited the list to show this, what do you think?

Well, they can become a liability in a mech army as it gives the enemy a focus.
However, three naked Jetbikes are also a liabilty.

updated again, the seer council I think has been improved with the addition of the spears, and taking off enhance because its not really worth the points IMO.

The Jetseer unit is rather small.
It easily dies from massive small arms fire.
This unit is more a liability than an asset.

Small Councils = bad.
No Fire Dragons = bad.
1500 points = terrible.

Three fire prisms = good

Multiple bright lances = Better

1500 points = Job done.

A _few_ singing spears can help against vehicles, but you need to mostly keep Witchblades if you want to win CC. Also, the Farseer really doesn't need Doom (nor the Stones, then). His squad wounds on a 2+ in CC, and Prisms do fine against most targets. The Avengers could use a boost with their shots, but the points would be better spent adding another Warlock to your Council.

I'd ditch the Destructors, too. keeping your Council purely CC is better against most foes (with the possible exception of really elite things like Genestealers, Wyches or Striking Scorpions). The Destructors will just maim all enemy within reach for a charge, and then cheat you of either being immune to enemy fire (tied up in CC) or the extra movement gained through consolidate moves. There are situations where those flamers could come in handy- multi-charges against Ork hordes, for example. But for the most part, saving your points to buy more Warlocks seems a better idea. Maybe one or two Destructors is still good, if you're attached to the idea. But 4 have diminishing returns. Also, leaving a couple naked Warlocks for soaking the inevitable few bad-luck casualties while you fly about is wise.

And Pathfinders DO work in Mechdar. I was not a believer until recently, but fielding them repeatedly just for fun pointed out how awesome they are. They do what Mechdar often lacks- covering your home base well, and soaking anti-infantry fire as others have mentioned above. 5 of them makes a decent thorn in the enemy's side.

Overall, your list looks decent for 1500, once you fix the Council. Let us know how it plays!

Ive just had a look at the new council.

You need two embolden. Doom will serve the entire army very well and is worth keeping. 5 Singing spears are 3-4 too many as it does steal those attacks away. With such a small squad, stick with just having one warlock spear and one farseer spear and leave the Landraiders and such to fire-prisms and brightlances.

Four destructors is a good amount if firepower as 16 witchblade attacks wont actually kill that much (about 3 MEQ's, more GEQ's etc) so combat resolution wont be that stacked so it is always a good idea to even the odds. Four str5 templates will only kill 4 marines or about 16 T3 4+ (or worse) models.. with the large gaunt or guardsmen style squads, that will go along way to wiping the sqaud, especially fearless/stubborn ones.

I do think the council could do with an extra warlock but with such a decked out list already (triple prisms, three troop choices, tooled up serpents) there just isnt the space. Cutting three destructors and all 5 singing spears would net 45pts, exactly one more warlock. But loosing those spears and destuctors make the squad suffer for utility. It could definetly do with cutting 4 spears just to regain combat prowess.

Ok, final Edit for you guys, I'm gonna play test this one a few times before changing anything else, but it'd still be good to know what you think

Would very strongly suggest dropping one destructor warlock and instead giving him enhance. Two embolden is good insurance, but you do want one enhance for certain opponents.


Sliggoth

Razerous wrote:Three fire prisms = good

Multiple bright lances = Better

1500 points = Job done.

lols.

I hate 1500 points, so much.

@Bobdole4eva, as you know, I've done an article that discusses the topic of Seer Councils on Bikes at some length on Mind War.

I think an Enhance is necessary, although having 2 Emboldens I'm unsure of.

I think an Enhance is necessary, although having 2 Emboldens I'm unsure of.

My Council usually gets enhance x1 and embolden x2.
I leave out destructors as they eventually prevent the Council from charging the enemy.
Do the math. A large Ork mob does not stand a chance vs a larger Council that has no destructors to soften up the mob.

Razerous wrote:Pathfinders can eat up silly amounts of non anti-cover firepower. They are immobile when shooting but with infiltrate and scout moves, they can get into really good positions from the beginning of the game and with their ability to ignore difficult terrain, they can move & fleet through cover and away from bad guys.

Jetbikes are alot more mobile and 3 are very cheap but; horribly easy to kill/break/send packing.

Three singing spears (one on the farseer and two on destructor locks) could provide a fairly reliable way to pop most transports during the shooting phase to allow you to charge the transported troops. It does diminish your close-combat ability by 3 attacks, out of a previous total of 24 attacks so it is significant. But those extra replacement shooting attacks will always be used (as charge range < singing spear range) so the loss in combat is slightly mitigated.

Other than that, I likes.

Since when do Pathfinders have the scout rule???

The Bloody Handed God wrote:[quote=Razerous...and scout moves..

Since when do Pathfinders have the scout rule???

Ah, found it. Thank you for pointing that out. I have read it but I hadn't played for about a year and just skimmed it over. Hm, not sure how affective that is for infiltration though. Any ideas?

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Ah, found it. Thank you for pointing that out. I have read it but I hadn't played for about a year and just skimmed it over. Hm, not sure how affective that is for infiltration though. Any ideas?

You can infiltrate out in the open, but outside that 18" (or is it 24"?) minimum range.. then scout-move 6" (ignoring difficult terrain movement rules) into that nearby piece of cover.

Thats pretty much is, extra flexibility during infiltration deployement.

Okie Dokie, I've tried out this list as well as another list I wrote, both against the same Marine list, fiarly bog standard stuff. This one under performed I feel, and the Seer Council were more of a liability than an asset.

The other list is located here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/247762.page if anyone is interested, and I think you'll see why it had a lot more synergy.

Which GT are you off to Bob? If it's the UK one, which heat?

wuestenfux wrote:

I think an Enhance is necessary, although having 2 Emboldens I'm unsure of.

My Council usually gets enhance x1 and embolden x2.
I leave out destructors as they eventually prevent the Council from charging the enemy.
Do the math. A large Ork mob does not stand a chance vs a larger Council that has no destructors to soften up the mob.

lols, no, they don't. But, I'd rather only take 2 turns to finish them off, not 7!

That would be very effective considering the amount of fire prism to cover.

Which GT are you off to Bob? If it's the UK one, which heat?

It is indeed the UK one, I'm Heat 2, how about you?

Heat three I'm afraid. Bang goes my plan for Team Dakka.

I considered starting a new thread, but thought I'd get better responses if I posted on the end of my old one with a slightly modified list that I think suits my style more

Farseer
-RoWarding
-Jetbike
-Fortune
-Singing Spear
133

8 Warlocks
-Jetbikes
-2 Singing Spears
-Enhance
-Embolden
-3 Destructor
416

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent
-Shuriken Cannon
-Spirit Stones
190

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones
205

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones
205

5 Pathfinders
120

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

total:1499

I realised that a)I love Fire Dragons, very much and b) 3 Prisms wasn't working for me, yeah the whole idea of redundency is good, but the third one sat there like a lemon while the other 2 did stuff, and only came in when one was injured or destroyed.

What do you think?

Elessar wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

I think an Enhance is necessary, although having 2 Emboldens I'm unsure of.

My Council usually gets enhance x1 and embolden x2.
I leave out destructors as they eventually prevent the Council from charging the enemy.
Do the math. A large Ork mob does not stand a chance vs a larger Council that has no destructors to soften up the mob.

lols, no, they don't. But, I'd rather only take 2 turns to finish them off, not 7!

Not sure what you mean. Math is key here.

10 Warlocks hit on 3+, wound on 2+.
This gives 3 * 10 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 16.6 wounds, 13 dead Orks.
Yriel and Eldrad kill 5 Orks so that there are 18 dead Orks.
The Orks kill two Warlocks in return.
But the Orks are still fearless and thus need to make about 15 to 16 armor saves.
This means 12 dead Orks. The whole mob is gone. Cheers!