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Now that I've been playing for a while and have a somewhat better understanding of the Rules and game mechanics I revisited the 'Flash Gitz' page. I haven't even bothered looking at them in a while as so many others have told me they are rubbish.

Is it just me or did the 'Flash Gitz' really get hamstrung. They are pricey, relatively ineffective on all but the lightest armor (Sure great AP but such a pitiful STR) and seem to have been reduced to over-priced marginally effective anti-infantry troops.

I just think they have really lost their 'Elite' status as Orks (hell, they're not even Elite in the Force Organization Chart anymore).

What a shame. So much promise, so much potential as a unit to add to my growing army. Now, they are probably the last one I'll bother modeling simply because they seem so ineffective.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts.

Always curious what others think...

I'm still scratching my head over the choice of Heavy Support for them. Don't even get me started on points cost... it's stupid overcosted. The main thing that bugs me about them is they are not a dedicated unit... what I mean is if they are a shooty unit, they should be really good at it; if they are an assaulty unit they should be really good at that. As they stand they appear to be intended as Jacks of all Trades and Masters of none.

Especially tragic since they are positively ripe for modeling opportunities. I'll build some anyway just because AOBR Nobs are so cheap and I have such a big Ork bitz box.

They're Nobz with guns, but they aren't any better at shooting than other Nobz, and their guns are very subpar to the Lootas' Deffguns, unless you're wanting to move & shoot (doesn't help all that much), or charge into combat afterwards (without any of the things that make Nobz so cool in CC).

Used 'em once or twice for kicks, but they're generally not worth the points.

The point cost is reasonable for their statline. They are Nobz, with Eavy Armor, (which would be 25 points), and replace their slugga and choppa for a Snazz gun and Git Finda.

The problem is, Nobz are good in melee, and Flash Gitz don't get any melee upgrades like Klaws and Big Choppas. So, they'll steamroll units that are bad in melee, but they'll not do too well against good to elite melee units (unlike Nobz, which can take down just about any melee unit). And they can't take a bosspole, so their Ld 7 and small mob size, means they'll run away a lot. If they lose a round of combat, even by 1, they're probably running (since they'd at best be Ld 6), because if they lose one model, they're not Fearless. And, they have no Bosspole for the reroll.

They shouldn't be a Nob comparable unit. They should be a Boyz comparable unit. Give them a boyz statline and make them pointed appropriately. Give them a bigger mob size (like 15), and let the unit take a Nob (with a powerklaw, gives them some melee punch and with a bosspole and the bigger unit size helps with morale).

Flash Gitz fall into the trap of a lot of units in a lot of games. They can do OK in both shooting and melee, so you pay a premium for their 'multi-role' ability. But, since they're not Elite in either category, they'll never do as well at either as a dedicated elite unit can do.

I agree, even though I plan to make some. I remember when in second edition my flash gits or whatever they were called back then all had plasma guns, two of 'em had plasma cannons and there was a bigboss leading them who had a kustom mega blasta, which was a terrifying weapon compared to how it is now. They were on one flank along with my lottas, who back then had autocannons. They shot dead anything that came near them while my Goff boyz hordes, boar boyz and cyboars rode down the other flank. Good times, good times...

Dietrich is right they are a confused unit. There really doesn't seem to be any reason to take them unless you want them for flavor or army theme. Most people would rather have another BW or kan/dread mob. As a heavy choice they really should have higher str weapons IMO. Something to complement the lootas light armor cracking firepower. Though really they should have given us a more heavily armored looted wagon option instead. Then people would stop complaining about their looted LRBTs getting nerfed.

Ultimately the problem with any shooting unit in an Ork army is no matter how strong the weapon, no matter how good the AP is, it's still in the hands of an Ork. A crosseyed, shooting from the hip, can't hit the broad side of a barn Ork.

To make an Orky shooting unit good it needs to have a wildly firing weapon. Like a Punisher cannon. Hell, the more I think about it the more that seems Orky. A S5 20 shot Gatling Cannon mounted on a Looted Wagon? Absolutely Orky.

The Green Git wrote:To make an Orky shooting unit good it needs to have a wildly firing weapon. Like a Punisher cannon. Hell, the more I think about it the more that seems Orky. A S5 20 shot Gatling Cannon mounted on a Looted Wagon? Absolutely Orky.

Only if it fires snotlings, can blow up, or similar.

Knowing GW though, they'd make it 20 shots, but Str d6 to create 'balance'.

I remember in Second Edition, if you took Badrukk, one unit of Freebootaz became Flash Gitz, and they could all then take a Wargear card, which was absolutely hideous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I was very disappointed that in the new Codex, Badrukk is only an upgrade to the unit, it seems like he should be an IC HQ choice. Sigh.

GoFenris wrote:Now that I've been playing for a while and have a somewhat better understanding of the Rules and game mechanics I revisited the 'Flash Gitz' page. I haven't even bothered looking at them in a while as so many others have told me they are rubbish.

Is it just me or did the 'Flash Gitz' really get hamstrung. They are pricey, relatively ineffective on all but the lightest armor (Sure great AP but such a pitiful STR) and seem to have been reduced to over-priced marginally effective anti-infantry troops.

I just think they have really lost their 'Elite' status as Orks (hell, they're not even Elite in the Force Organization Chart anymore).

What a shame. So much promise, so much potential as a unit to add to my growing army. Now, they are probably the last one I'll bother modeling simply because they seem so ineffective.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts.

Always curious what others think...

+1

They do nothing for me. So many other things I want to model, paint and field...

Feels to me like they were tacked on the end of the codex, someone might have mentioned making them via forgeworld or something, but they are a poorly thought out jack of all trades and master of none with no current mini range. They have no use on the battlefield that something can't do better or cheaper or both (well hellllo l00taz!).

Soooo, wait till the next edition of the Codex and expect a model range and their rules to go from suck to amazing, just in time to relegate nobs or burnas to oblivion of gakky rules or being ret-conned out of existence.

dietrich wrote:

The Green Git wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I was very disappointed that in the new Codex, Badrukk is only an upgrade to the unit, it seems like he should be an IC HQ choice. Sigh.

QFT!
at 2hq's any former IC that is now an upgrade is a good thing.
it just means you can still take wazdakka and gazzghull as well.

personally I hate the high price but love using the unit
all my flash gitz are boyz with tau guns. . . .for arms,

hoping they are better with the next codex. . . .

They are a cool concept. Big boyz with big gunz; the sort of firepower that can take out an army by itself, but costs an arm and a leg to get your hands on. In reality GW only got the last part right.

The more I think about it, however, the main thing that stops me from taking them is the variable AP. S5, or 6 if you by the upgrade, is nice, but not enough for me to be buying the model for 25-30 points, when it gets one shot that may be AP6. With BS 2, to be worth their points, they need to be reliably AP3 or 2.

I think you almost have to buy More Dakka for them, making them Assault 2. Which means they're now what - 30 points each? So, for 300 points, you get 20 shots, 7 hits, vs. T4, you'll have 5 wounds. Half the time, they'll ignore 3+ Saves. The other half, they won't. So, if you're shooting at an MEQ, that means you'll average 5 wounds, 3 wounds (if they're in cover), or 2 wounds if you roll a 4+ for the AP. Wow. For 300 points, you just wasted like 3 MEQs. Where instead, you could spend 220 points on 30 shoota boyz with a nob with PK and bosspole, and do just about the same vs. MEQs (59 shots, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 3 failed saves). And, the Boyz mob, thanks to the Nob and extra bodies, will do better in melee. And while you can upgrade one Flash Git to a painboy, and add Kaptin Badrukk, that makes them like a 450-point, 11 model unit. Which, is fine if you want to play APOC, not so good at a tourney.

I've learned to love them, mostly because they attract a TON of firepower and can absorb it. Combined with the right support unit (I'm looking at you, Killa Kanz!) they can shred things up as well. I use at the very least 1 maxxed out unit with all the trimmings. It's important to not just look at the unit, but how it works as a cog in the machine that is your army. I don't leave home without them, and fully plan on bringing 1 and maybe 2 units of them to the next tournament.

D'oh, responded in the wrong thread!

Flash Gitz are a great part of the fluff, you can almost always find something that does what they do better.

Flash Gitz: Because Hobbyists are not the same people as Tournament Players.

Here's one. If they are behind another unit, getting a cover save they cannot use their AP shooting. d'oh!

They are OK. They are actually cheaper than Nobz but lack their punch in close combat. They do not count as Troop, either.

Nobody_Holme wrote:Flash Gitz: Because Hobbyists are not the same people as Tournament Players.

Now this one I like!

Well, sometime in the next two to three years ( my estimate to have my army 100% done ) I'll have a great looking unit of Flash Gitz and the Codex should have been recycled by then and they'll be effective and look good too!

Nobody_Holme wrote:Flash Gitz: Because Hobbyists are not the same people as Tournament Players.

I do hope that this is an attempt at humour, lest I jump into another one of my "Don't presume to tell X how they should enjoy the hobby" diatribes.

GoFenris wrote:Well, sometime in the next two to three years ( my estimate to have my army 100% done ) I'll have a great looking unit of Flash Gitz and the Codex should have been recycled by then and they'll be effective and look good too!

Only then GW will have given them back a boys statline so your nob flash gitz won't be legal and you'll have to buy the new models or convert a new batch!

utan wrote:

GoFenris wrote:Well, sometime in the next two to three years ( my estimate to have my army 100% done ) I'll have a great looking unit of Flash Gitz and the Codex should have been recycled by then and they'll be effective and look good too!

Only then GW will have given them back a boys statline so your nob flash gitz won't be legal and you'll have to buy the new models or convert a new batch!

QFT, this is almost certian to happen,with the "new" Flash Gitz rules will come the "new" minis,and all your scratch builds will be sent to sqautland .
Incidently,I like the (idea) of Flash Gitz,but the current stats/points cost,phhffft.

Counts as, baby. Counts as...

Well, I definitely want to model some Flash Gitz since the potential in them is awesome, model wise.

In terms of actually fielding the unit though, well, I've seen them do alright and I've seen them do very poorly. At the heart of it though, it's pretty much what folks have indicated here already. The unit is sufficiently confused that they can be dubbed the Swooping Hawks of the Ork Codex.

In game terms, the unit is mediocre to OK, but that's it. As a heavy support choice for Orks, that just doesn't cut it. The Elite and Heavy sections of the Ork FOC are packed with very good to excellent units, so having an OK unit competing for FOC slots with Killa-Kans, Deff Dreads, Battlewagons, Looted Wagons and Big Gunz, especially a unit which has no models (save for their upgrade character) basically means that you seldom if ever see Flash Gitz in game.