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No, not just the fact they don't mind if they get painted with oil or enamel or arcylic, but why can't I buy a female model who isn't impossibly busty and / or "dressed" like a whore?

I recently purchased some bits to create an avatar of Myrmidia (basically, a 54mm female knight with wings) for WFB. And I would like to have some attendants for her - I thought it would be cool to have some armored females; nuns in heavy armour kind of thing. GW doesn't do a lot of models in that style (there is the Sisters of Sigmar, but they are very Sigmarite - I want swords and spears, not hammers) so I looked elsewhere.

Oh sweet merciful Jesus, tell me why there is NO-ONE who sculpts models who didn't learn what women are like SOLELY from Jim Balent comics? And, if the Son of God is too busy dying for my sins to tell me, can a Dakkaite answer this?

Case in point - Werner Knocke's work. I bought a 54mm model of his, and it is a nice model and not too bad (although my wife did say "She has a very big chest" which, coming from my wife, is kinda like me saying "He's very Catholic") - but look at the rest of his stuff!

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/klockenbooty/latest/page1

And it's not just him - Dark Elf Witch Elves I understand (they are part of a sadistic sex / death cult), same with Daemonettes. But, seriously guys - this is a fantasy game so I should be able to have female models doing traditionally male roles (like fighter etc.) Can I please have a model or two who is not dressed like a freaking whore? Some practical armor? Maybe if she actually covered her bumpers?

Does anyone have any comments - or perhaps somewhere where I can purchase heroic 28mm (or even 28mm or 25mm) female figures in armor which are NOT dressed like the hostesses at the local Spearmint Rhino?

I think it has too do with majority of the sculptors being male. Also think about the modeling on the faces of these and other female figs. Most female faces aside from the long hair are rather bland and not too distinguishable from male models. The easiest way to make the model stand out as female aside from a fruity pose is to slap a DD rack on there or throw some junk in the trunk.

Good luck on the hunt, but I would'nt hold my breath.

I think it has a lot to do with the miniatures not getting enough attention from their miniature family, especially miniature daddy, so now they're getting drunk in crappy bars and showing off in front of a hundred strangers with a camera for a free t-shirt.

Remember, a miniature who will sleep with anyone is a slut; a miniature who will sleep with anyone but you is a bitch.

*End public service announcement*

I would have to go with the male sculptors idea.

Plus, who doesn't want to be able to field a minature pocket rocket or two

RxGhost wrote:I think it has a lot to do with the miniatures not getting enough attention from their miniature family, especially miniature daddy, so now they're getting drunk in crappy bars and showing off in front of a hundred strangers with a camera for a free t-shirt.

Remember, a miniature who will sleep with anyone is a slut; a miniature who will sleep with anyone but you is a bitch.

*End public service announcement*

No, not just the fact they don't mind if they get painted with oil or enamel or arcylic, but why can't I buy a female model who isn't impossibly busty and / or "dressed" like a whore?

I recently purchased some bits to create an avatar of Myrmidia (basically, a 54mm female knight with wings) for WFB. And I would like to have some attendants for her - I thought it would be cool to have some armored females; nuns in heavy armour kind of thing. GW doesn't do a lot of models in that style (there is the Sisters of Sigmar, but they are very Sigmarite - I want swords and spears, not hammers) so I looked elsewhere.

Oh sweet merciful Jesus, tell me why there is NO-ONE who sculpts models who didn't learn what women are like SOLELY from Jim Balent comics? And, if the Son of God is too busy dying for my sins to tell me, can a Dakkaite answer this?

Case in point - Werner Knocke's work. I bought a 54mm model of his, and it is a nice model and not too bad (although my wife did say "She has a very big chest" which, coming from my wife, is kinda like me saying "He's very Catholic") - but look at the rest of his stuff!

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/klockenbooty/latest/page1

And it's not just him - Dark Elf Witch Elves I understand (they are part of a sadistic sex / death cult), same with Daemonettes. But, seriously guys - this is a fantasy game so I should be able to have female models doing traditionally male roles (like fighter etc.) Can I please have a model or two who is not dressed like a freaking whore? Some practical armor? Maybe if she actually covered her bumpers?

Does anyone have any comments - or perhaps somewhere where I can purchase heroic 28mm (or even 28mm or 25mm) female figures in armor which are NOT dressed like the hostesses at the local Spearmint Rhino?

I agree. Not to drag your topic OT, but have query-please check your PM.

You have to also keep in mind that this is a male dominated hobby. There's always some amount of fan service associated with hobbies with these kinds of demographics.

The same trend is noticeable in Video Games (though that's getting a bit better as of late) and the most common super power.

Not that I'm saying I don't agree with you, just saying that the main target audience of the hobby tend to gravitate toward buxom and scantily clad women.

On the plus side, a lot of Reaper minis tend to be ok.

As for why so many slutty female models?

Keep in mind this:


Its as close as their ever gonna get...

Better a slut than a tranny, I guess?

Two-fold simple answer: Most sculptors are male geeks, male geeks are to sluts as the pious are to heaven (they've never been there, and probably won't ever get there, but they still spend their whole lives trying to).

Secondly, sex sells. Sluts sell. Sales mean capital, capital means the ability to sculpt MORE SLUTS! Who can argue with MORE SLUTS?!

That being said I actually think GW (for all their inability to actually sculpt a believable female face) have made some of the most conservative female minis in the past (they're rare but they happen, the few female Guardsmen minis come to mind).

Obligatory: SPACE NUNS IN CORSETS!!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/28883-Major%20Victoria%20Haley.html

Modest enough!

A reason I think I've seen posted, aside from the obvious ("sex sells"), is that it's the easiest way to differentiate male/female models at such a small scale.

AlexCage wrote:Better a slut than a tranny, I guess?

THIS guy disagrees:

As someone who used to spend hours in art class, sculpting and painting the female form is a pain in the ass for one MAJOR reason..... the person modeling for you is an image obsessed hormonal killing machine. sculpt the boobs too small or the ass not firm enough and they b**ch. And it doesn't matter if the way you sculpt or paint it is the way it actually looks..... And heaven forbid you should make the woman weigh what she actually weighs.... For example, with the Lord of the Rings Models, The lead female elf from the movie actually was sculpted around 3-5 times. Every other model based on the movie actors was sculpted once or twice. Each time the actress sent the sculpt back saying she didn't like it. Finally, the sculpter gave the model much bigger cleavage and a smaller waistline, and we have the model we have today. A woman will argue with a mirror..... of course she's going to argue with the sculpter about how she thinks she should look.

Mmm...er...no issues there....

Werner Klocke is a terrible sculptor. All of his stuff basically looks the same. Kev white does decent women, although most of them have the same pornstar physique you describe. Some of them are based off his wife though - those aren't so bad.

check out hasslefree minis

Really, this needed to be asked? I always thought it was obvious... Because they're sculpted by horny, geeky, gamer guys, and purchased by horny, geeky, gamer guys. I don't want to spend my $ on something wearing a damn sweater... MMmm, sweater cows!

LOL... I'm poking fun of course.

I don't know your exact definition of slutty dressing.

Hasslefree do some nice non-slutty figures.

I think you need to bear in mind this is "fantasy"....its a fact of life that sexual needs fulfill many peoples fantasies.....in the same way as massively armoured men, large guns and aliens who bleed acid.

To ask why? about the female sexual side, means, to be balanced, you need to ask why? regarding all the other facets of the fantasy genre! Is one worse than the other?

If you want reasonably dressed female fighters, try out Dark Sword miniatures, they do a lot of different stuff based on D&D I think, and you can find some ok dressed women in there. Here are a few examples:





P.S Hasselfree ROCKS!!!

I do get the notion that there is a signifiant number of hobbyists who are horny teens (or think like teens) who want to objectify women - but surely there are enough people who DON'T want that?

I am not arguing for all female models to be completely realistic (this is, they are in armor there is very little to differentiate) - I think the notion of fantasy female armor (i.e. shaped overly like a woman) is a good one for a fantasy game. I would just like to be able to get SOME models who are wearing armor which actually functions as armor.

Also, on the whole objectification of women by gamer geeks - okay, it is to be expect from a certain age of man (and even, because of the media's influence, from ALL men to a certain degree) but . . . heck, guys! It's a one-inch-tall piece of metal!

I can understand a desire to have posters on the wall, or books of art or glossy magazines, or even pornography. But seriously - does sex sell SO MUCH that something that small sells via its sexuality?

I wonder if there is not a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy here - namely that sculptors make these things because they think they will sell, and gamers buy them because they think they are supposed to buy them - NOT because they genuinely find the models attractive.

As an example, someone posted a (lovely) model on another thread as an example of an alternative Calidius assassin. Great model - woman in tight leather armor with a cloak and sword. Okay, so she is in a catsuit - but that is okay ....

... until you turn her around, and not only is she wearing a thong, but she is (unnaturally) pulling her cloak aside so you can see her ass!

I dunno - it just seems like the female minatures are being sculpted for the lowest common denominator, and it is kinda embarassing. It's like going to a hobby shop and finding the walls covered in Julie Bell and Boris Vallejo art - great stuff, but it is basically soft-core porn. It is just embarassing for those of us who AREN'T horny 13 year olds.

I will check out Hasslefree - I have heard good things about them.

I have a modestly dressed female dwarf fighter somewhere... beyond that they do seem to be slutty or nuns. Occasionally both.

I think if the horny teen thing were all that simple dark eldar would sell a lot better.

Also, the males are rather out of proportion, as well. Which makes the exagerated female parts less of a male . . . sculpter issue.

Sometimes.


That said, RxGhost wins.

It's to make the male population happy, it's why my friend want's to play Dark Elves

It's sorta like Anime at some point you need a scantily clad young lady to go on a killing spree.

Hmm, I think the OP is over simplifying this. Yes, there are way too many female models that are baring way too much. But if I understand, the question is "can there be obviously female models without being hyper-feminine." And while I think there can be, keep in mind the limitations of the scale. A six foot tall figure is roughly 30mm, a breast is roughly 6" across if you're lucky, so a well endowed female in real scale would have breasts roughly 2.5mm across. that's pretty small, so much like guns, heads, hands, and eyes are; the breasts are upsized so they show up in scale.

As for the target demo, keep in mind that many women also like hyper feminized models. As has been pointed out, it's hard to show that a model is female if they're in armor.

Finally, even GW has a pretty decent range of female figures that aren't embarrassing. The WH inquisitors, howling banshees, the old catachan grenade launcher, warrior woman and rocket girl, etc.

Thisn does of course only apply when they sculpt a woman that looks like a woman, unlike a fair bit of GWs androgynous output.

There are plenty of non-slutty female models in the Privateer lines. There's a fair share of slutty ones two, but they tend to represent characters who are supposed to be slutty, like Satyxis.

Polonius wrote:Hmm, I think the OP is over simplifying this. Yes, there are way too many female models that are baring way too much. But if I understand, the question is "can there be obviously female models without being hyper-feminine." And while I think there can be, keep in mind the limitations of the scale. A six foot tall figure is roughly 30mm, a breast is roughly 6" across if you're lucky, so a well endowed female in real scale would have breasts roughly 2.5mm across. that's pretty small, so much like guns, heads, hands, and eyes are; the breasts are upsized so they show up in scale.

As for the target demo, keep in mind that many women also like hyper feminized models. As has been pointed out, it's hard to show that a model is female if they're in armor.

Finally, even GW has a pretty decent range of female figures that aren't embarrassing. The WH inquisitors, howling banshees, the old catachan grenade launcher, warrior woman and rocket girl, etc.

Just what I was thinking.

I am not complaining about hyper-feminization - that is necessary at this scale. I am complaining about the fact it is very difficult to find models of women which are not, in some way, dressed provocatively and inappropriately.

A barbarian queen dressed in a fur bikini is a good idea. It is appropriate. A female near-naked Spartan hoplite is (while utterly ahistorical) appropriate.

A member of a religious order who is NOT given over to the goddess of lust or somesuch wearing a thong and a loincloth and with cleavage down to her navel is NOT appropriate. She can be shapely and sexy, but she needs to we wearing something appropriate.

Historically, women wore a variety of costumes which were provocative - low-cut dresses, corsets etc. etc. And a hyperfeminized model with large breasts, narrow waist, long legs and wide hips dressed like that would be fine.

Heck, I am not advocating some puritan "no naked women!" On another thread, I actually complained that a photograph of a female minature had censored the evil nipples (nipples, as all men of learning know, corrupt children who can never look at them - blindfold your kids while breastfeeding!)

I just object to the "default" for a female model to be dressed far more provocatively / skimpily than her male counterpart. And I was very disappointed by what I found with certain minatures lines where women were basically wearing half a suit of plate armor, and flashing a lot of breast and thigh.

Hasselfree seems to offer me more options, and I do like their stuff. But there is a serious point here - how many of us want to be known as "those guys who play with miniature sex dolls"? 'Cause that is, sadly enough, what many of these figures are.

GW makes plenty of appropriately armored/clothed models: Eldar, Wood Elves, Sisters of Sigmar, Sisters of Battle, Female Inquisitor, Bretonnian Sorceress, High Elves, etc

Privateer Press makes plenty of appropriately armored/clothed models: Skarre, Alexia Cannor, Makeda, Captain Haley, Tharn Blood Trackers, etc

Reaper makes plenty of appropriately armored/clothed models: Warlord Line, Dark Heavens line

Rackham makes plenty of appropriately armored/clothed models: Lions, Griffons, Elves, AT-43 stuff.

Some of the companies also make the "sluts" that you are talking about. I think you are overreacting though.

I assume the mini sex dolls sell. There have been 'chainmail bikini' figures around as long as fantasy RPGs.

Equally there have been some decent (in both meanings) non-chainmail bikini figures too, so not everyone wants to play with mini sex dolls.

You will be horrified to know I am modding a couple of Hasslefree figures into poledancers. There is a legitimate reason for this.

Hasslefree actually do a poledancer...

I'm using her and the barbarian axe woman.



I am modding them for 40K so SF bits are getting added.

I hate to admit it, but as we are on the subject, I am modding a few of the other Hasslefree women into 'hoes'. Again, I have a totally legitimate reason.