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It says in the witch hunters book that the witch hunters cannot ally with an army that has other allies, but the IG don't have an allies listing perse... I don't know if I'm getting too technical maybe the asnwer is obvious.

It also says that they can be used as allies in an army alongside daemonhunter allies? Did I interpret this correctly?

Yes. You can take a Daemonhunters Army with Inducted Guard (from the Daemonhunters codex) Witch Hunter Allies. What you cannot do is have a Space Marine army and have Witch Hunter Allies in the form of Inducted Guard.

You can even take a Space Marine Army with both Witch Hunter and Daemonhunter allies.

erhm im confused. Here is the specific question I guess: can I take a unit of sisters in a rhino, and a guard infantry platoon with all the bits and bobs, BOTH in an army of daemonhunters (full compulsories, grey knights and terminators included etc.)?

What you can do is take a Daemonhunters parent list, take Inducted Infantry Platoons from THAT list, then add Witch Hunter Allies. You can't add Inducted Guard from the Witch Hunter Codex as allies.

So yes you can do that, provided the Guard Platoon comes from the Daemonhunter Codex.

Awesome, sorry to triple check but then this list would be legal (who knows about effective).

terminator HQ squad (DH)
inducted IG infantry platoon (IG through DH)
Sisters dominion squad (WH allies)
inquisitorial storm trooper squad (DH)
grey knights squad(DH)
2 land raiders(DH)
dreadnought(DH)


?

GeneralX wrote:Awesome, sorry to triple check but then this list would be legal (who knows about effective).

HQ + 2 troops from DH codex, allies permitted by the same - seems legal to me.

Gwar is correct however you cannot take any of the new Russ's only the one thats in the DH codex if you decide to take both WH and ImpG.

I realize you didnt ask about that but I just figure it would be a helpful tidbit.

Really? Whys that?

Because you're stuck with the options listed in the DH codex and you don't have the option of taking whatever you like from the new IG codex.

Though, the recent Ard Boys tournament, if I'm not mistaked, allowed it, so a precedent has been set, but you'd have to ask your opponent for permission.

cKerensky wrote:Though, the recent Ard Boys tournament, if I'm not mistaked, allowed it, so a precedent has been set, but you'd have to ask your opponent for permission.

'Ard Boys mean as much as the Local Bridge Club (i.e None at all). RaW you cannot take any sort of Leman Russ whatsoever in a DH/WH army.

That is an argument for another thread. GW will not release eratta (why) but our shop has spoken to two different individuals there and both said the standard lrbt (no variants, no squadrons) is a valid choice.

Inigo Montoya wrote:That is an argument for another thread. GW will not release eratta (why) but our shop has spoken to two different individuals there and both said the standard lrbt (no variants, no squadrons) is a valid choice.

Yes, but they also mean less than the Local Bridge Club. Until GW release an Erreta, RaW Leman Russ are not available to DH/WH armies, Period.

thanks guys, and gwar especially : O

Gwar is way off. Both DH and WH may take a single standard Leman Russ Battle Tank (no variants) per their rules for inducting Imperial Guard units as long as two inducted Guard troop selection are taken (CH pg30-31, C:WH pg 26). The Inducted Leman Russ takes up a heavy selection slot on the FOC.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:Gwar is way off. Both DH and WH may take a single standard Leman Russ Battle Tank (no variants) per their rules for inducting Imperial Guard units as long as two inducted Guard troop selection are taken (CH pg30-31, C:WH pg 26). The Inducted Leman Russ takes up a heavy selection slot on the FOC.

SJ

Gwar!'s argument isn't "way off". The DH coex states that you may ally in a single Leman Russ Battle Tank unit from C:IG. C:IG has no Leman Russ Battle Tank unit, only Leman Russ Squadron units that are composed of a single Leman Russ Battle Tank.

I'd never try to play that way, but I'm fairly laid back about the rules.

Gwar! is way off of many interpretations, but right on what is actually written.

RustyKnight wrote:

jeffersonian000 wrote:Gwar is way off. Both DH and WH may take a single standard Leman Russ Battle Tank (no variants) per their rules for inducting Imperial Guard units as long as two inducted Guard troop selection are taken (CH pg30-31, C:WH pg 26). The Inducted Leman Russ takes up a heavy selection slot on the FOC.

SJ

Gwar!'s argument isn't "way off". The DH coex states that you may ally in a single Leman Russ Battle Tank unit from C:IG. C:IG has no Leman Russ Battle Tank unit, only Leman Russ Squadron units that are composed of a single Leman Russ Battle Tank.

I'd never try to play that way, but I'm fairly laid back about the rules.

Wow; both of the 'Hunter codex's I own simply state 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank [#], where the postscript advises that 2 inducted Imperial Guard troop selections must be taken before an inducted heavy selection may be taken. Where are you reading the word "unit"? In the section were it advises that units selected are exactly like the one listed in their respective codex? If so, how are the stats for one Leman Russ listed in the current C:IG incompatible with the entry "0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank"?

Are you confusing the statement that we use the stats for a single Tank with the IG ability to take a squadron of the same tank? Two different codex's. The only information DH and WH armies require from the IG 'Dex is the cost, stat line, and options available to a single Leman Russ Battle Tank. The only question that should be asked is whether or not a Leman Russ variant may be taken; per RAW, a Leman Russ Battle Tank is the standard pattern tank with Battlecannon with hull mounted heavy weapon and optional sponson/defensive weapons.

SJ

HOO AH. YOU TELL EM.

jeffersonian000 wrote:Wow; both of the 'Hunter codex's I own simply state 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank [#], where the postscript advises that 2 inducted Imperial Guard troop selections must be taken before an inducted heavy selection may be taken. Where are you reading the word "unit"? In the section were it advises that units selected are exactly like the one listed in their respective codex? If so, how are the stats for one Leman Russ listed in the current C:IG incompatible with the entry "0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank"?

Witchhunters says "The following units may be used in a Witch Hunter army... These units may not be chosen as any of the compulsory choices in an army... All units are taken exactly as they appear in Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Imperial Guard... 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank"

Obviously the very abridged version but the codex DOES repeatedly refer to them as units before giving the listing. Which means for someone taking a strict RAW stance it's a matter of "show me the unit entry for Leman Russ Battle Tank in Codex: Imperial Guard" and there no longer is one.

I agree that you really should allow an opponent who wants to do so the right to include a single battle tank (or, a full squadron if you feel so inclined, but 1 seems fair enough) but the RAW argument is quite solid.

Excuse me jeffersonian000, but I am Right. RaW, you cannot, because Leman Russ Battle Tank is no longer a Unit in the IG codex, Only Leman Russ Squadron.

An apology is in order please.

No apology, as a Leman Russ Battle Tank is listed in the current IG codex, under the entry for a Leman Russ Tank Squadron. The unit in question is listed in the codex in question, with its relevant stats and options.

If this were a discussion regarding a Sentinel Squadron, you would be spot on as there are now two distinct types of Sentinels where before there was only one, and at this time it has not been defined by GW as to which of the two (or both) may be taken per the DH and WH inducted unit entries. However, as there is a listing for a Leman Russ Battle Tank in the IG codex, then the cost and options for that specific model can be referenced along with its stat line. As such, the 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank unit listed in the ‘Hunter “dexes is still a legal unit that can be selected under the correct conditions.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:No apology, as a Leman Russ Battle Tank is listed in the current IG codex, under the entry for a Leman Russ Tank Squadron. The unit in question is listed in the codex in question, with its relevant stats and options.

If this were a discussion regarding a Sentinel Squadron, you would be spot on as there are now two distinct types of Sentinels where before there was only one, and at this time it has not been defined by GW as to which of the two (or both) may be taken per the DH and WH inducted unit entries. However, as there is a listing for a Leman Russ Battle Tank in the IG codex, then the cost and options for that specific model can be referenced along with its stat line. As such, the 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank unit listed in the ‘Hunter “dexes is still a legal unit that can be selected under the correct conditions.

SJ

No, a Leman Russ Battle Tank is a Subsection of the Leman Russ Squadron. There is No Unit in the Army List called "Leman Russ Battle Tank". There is no possible way to buy a Unit called Leman Russ Battle Tank in the new IG Codex.

I am going to stab a certain someone in the back and say that you're wrong Gwar. You are allowed 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank. This means that you can get a squad of Leman Russ, just not more than one in that squad. There is nothing stopping you from getting that 1 Leman Russ, from the Leman Russ Squadron choice.

(P.S. Even if you WERE right, would you really try to be TFG and demand the game is played like that?)

Emperors Faithful wrote:I am going to stab a certain someone in the back and say that you're wrong Gwar. You are allowed 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank. This means that you can get a squad of Leman Russ, just not more than one in that squad. There is nothing stopping you from getting that 1 Leman Russ, from the Leman Russ Squadron choice.

(P.S. Even if you WERE right, would you really try to be TFG and demand the game is played like that?)

The DH/WH codex Explicitly states "You may take these units from Codex: IG", one of which is "Leman Russ Battle Tank". Show me in the Army list (with the points ect) a Unit called Leman Russ Battle Tank. A Full fledged unit, not something that is part of another. You can't, because it has been replaced by a Leman Russ Squadron, which means DH/WH cannot take any sort of Leman Russ Anymore.

And yes, after 10 years of a crappy Space Wolf Minidex, I will damn well make people play by their crappy rules. Am I bitter? Yes.

You may all not like it, but from a RaW standpoint, I am correct. How you play it is up to you, but if you don't go and pull TMIR to try and get a benefit like 99% of people do, you cannot take a Leman Russ, nor can you take Sentinels.

Okay...*drumroll* here it comes...
RAI is clearly meant to allow a leman russ in said army, if you are going to be that pedantic over a piece of wording then that's your problem.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Okay...*drumroll* here it comes...
RAI is clearly meant to allow a leman russ in said army, if you are going to be that pedantic over a piece of wording then that's your problem.

RaI means diddley squat. RaI my Space Wolves Drop Pod For free, can shoot bolters then assault all in one turn. Can I do it? No, because the rules have changed.

Likewise, the rules have changed in the IG codex, so the DH/WH codexes refer to things that do not exist.
Following the rules is not being pedantic.

Quit complaining, Spehs Puppehz are about to get thier long awaited codex for 5th ed, stop moaning. This is YMTC not RAI OR RAW.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Quit complaining, Spehs Puppehz are about to get thier long awaited codex for 5th ed, stop moaning. This is YMTC not RAI OR RAW.

Yes, and the call I make is that by the rules of the game, you cannot take them. You cannot deny that.

Gwar!'s right man.

From RAW, of course.

You can ignore this, and simply inform your opponent about it, but Gwar!'s (Always) right from an RAW standpoint.