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as someone who's only ever played the tau in dawn of war on the pc i hear that on the tabletop they don't play as well so whats the deal?

They don't play so well.
Their codex was written in 4th edition, and was very unique for that edition, however, in 5th edition the metagame shifted a lot, and the Tau codex was not written in a way that could take advantage of that. Devilfish are thrice as expensive as rhinos, but half as surviveable or powerful as wave serpents, so all in all they are a sub-par transport. fire warriors are BS3, in an army that relies solely on shooting. not a good thing, their pulse rifle is a good weapon, but not good enough to make up for the inability to take flamers, meltaguns, or heavy weapons. Crisis suits are great, but aren't terribly hard to deal with. Broadsides are great, but die turn 2, or 3 if you're extremely lucky, piranhas are good, and hard to deal with, kroot are a decent troops choice, but nothing really excels at what it does. 40k is also a game that is very kind to assaulty armies, as assaulting is almost always more powerful than shooting. 5th edition also makes troops much more important, and Tau lack strong troops.

The Above poster my be factually inaccurate about his statements of Tau. Welcome to the Greater Good.

As a new Player to tau I will say the following. Do not get obsessed with Crisis suits; Do not get upset at people who bitch about your army you will lose ALOT. Its a incredibly difficult army to get used to as you have 0 assault excepting 1 unit Kroot.

Tau are a very good 5th edition army; unfortunately people who play them tend to be borderline slowed.

As a new player I suggest the following


Buy a box of Kroot ; GET KROOT HOUNDS. Use Kroot Love Kroot. 130 points with the advent of cover saves every where make Kroot Sexy; put a unit of Gun Drones in front of them Move Forward Laugh.


Do NOT BUY ANY BOXSET BUT THE SKYRAY. The Skyray contains the parts for ALL vehicles Hammerhead , Devilsfish. So with some just simple skill at Magnets you can have any vehicle.
This is a HUGE worthwhile investment. AGAIN DO NOT buy anything but the SKYRAY boxset it has everything to make a Hammerhead/ Devilfish in it.



Contact FOCUSEDFIRE ; he will pop up eventually in this thread.


Its a great army; Its fun as hell to play ; its so different than other armies that when played correctly people just go " What??!!?".


Marker Lights are one of the most devastating items in the game with the ability to take away cover saves. Something that is PREVALENT in 5th editon. Woohoo yeah your 360 point Vendetta squad yeah they dont have cover saves ; eat 12 ST7 shots.

Sanguine Sympathy wrote:They don't play so well.
Their codex was written in 4th edition, and was very unique for that edition, however, in 5th edition the metagame shifted a lot, and the Tau codex was not written in a way that could take advantage of that. Devilfish are thrice as expensive as rhinos, but half as surviveable or powerful as wave serpents, so all in all they are a sub-par transport. fire warriors are BS3, in an army that relies solely on shooting. not a good thing, their pulse rifle is a good weapon, but not good enough to make up for the inability to take flamers, meltaguns, or heavy weapons. Crisis suits are great, but aren't terribly hard to deal with. Broadsides are great, but die turn 2, or 3 if you're extremely lucky, piranhas are good, and hard to deal with, kroot are a decent troops choice, but nothing really excels at what it does. 40k is also a game that is very kind to assaulty armies, as assaulting is almost always more powerful than shooting. 5th edition also makes troops much more important, and Tau lack strong troops.

Bah, don't listen to this...and let me do a proper introduction (with added in propaganda as well.)

Welcome, Brother to the Tau Empire. We hope that you'll find your place amongst the Greater Good...after all, that IS why you decided to join the most dynamic and explosive empire in the Eastern Fringe.

As such, let us get you acquainted with your fellow brothers and sisters working for the Greater Good...

The Crisis suit is one of the most famous aspects of the Tau Empire. The weapons and options are what draw most people into starting the Tau. That's what caught my eye. They are a blast to build and they annoy your opponents a lot due to their Jump-Shoot-Jump.

Ethereals are our spiritual guides on the battlefield. Unfortunately, gamewise they're pretty much useless...

Our Firewarriors defend our empire while taking the fight to the galaxy. Their rifles have a lot of range, but DO NOT GET THEM INTO ASSAULTS! They'll get chewed up and spat out.

Invest in our technology of railguns as they are the tank-killers of the great and glorious Tau Empire. (Start investing in Broadsides and Hammerheads. Your tank-heavy opponents will learn to fear them if they don't know what they can do. S10 w/AP1 is great. +1 on the vehicle damage table is wonderful.)

Vespid, while noble and held in great esteem, cost too much point-wise and money wise for what you currently get.


Brother, I would start out with a small force of Crisis Suits, Broadsides, and Firewarriors. From there, you'll see the potential of your army and get a better feel. But whatever you do, don't be turned off by other comments on how "broken" or "horrible" the Tau Empire is. That's just garbage. I was scared of collecting them at first, but now I have enough Tau warriors and played enough games with them where I'm glad I am a loyal supporter of the Tau Regime.

Good gaming, initiate.

Get a Skyray boxset ; It makes all the vehicles; It is awesome in its own right.

Dont let people get you down.


Also, Kroot Hounds are hell of expensive for 12 ; Buy a unit of Vampire Counts Hounds and a tube of Green stuff. Roll the Green stuff out really thin ; Take a Needle and Tweezer Make Circles. Take Tweezers and cover up the "Muscle" with Green Stuff. Paint them Green and gak.


BAM Kroot hounds for 25 bucks considering 12 is like 80 dollars which is goddamnridiculous.


Or Do what my Friend did and buy a unit of Skinks; Cut the Legs off half of them and put the Legs where the Arms are.

BAM 22 bucks for 10 Kroot hounds.

There is a lot of online tactica about Tau atm. I would even check out www.yesthetruthhurts.com for some tau bat-reps there that are REALLY helpful when versing chaos daemons.

Good Luck!

Saurus Warriors work as well but you need some green stuff. Just put Legs where arms go you have to cut some up but it still is easy as hell to do with just some green stuff and a little time.

It looks good to.


Actually mixing Saurus Warriors in with Kroot Guns look cool as hell. The boxset of kroot comes with some extra guns.

Oh Make sure to lay them down so their bellies are pointing to the ground. You can use two of the Square bases to make 1 calvary base.

You want to buy KROOT.


Also go ahead and start investing in Pirahnas w/ Fusion guns once you field a unit of 5 of these you will never NOT field a unit of them.

Also, Pathfinders are awesome.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have often considered Tau as a side-army. I have only seen them in action in fourth edition, however, and that player used to run a static list (he moved to Marines and, now, Guard in fifth).

One of my major concerns has been that they seem strategically and tactically limited compared to the fifth edition-ready armies. I already have two armies like that and do not want another. I have also always hated the look of Crisis Suits, so converting a bunch of them to look non-ugly sounds a little tedious. Oddly, I think the whole rest of the army looks awesome; how can I hate only one model? I get the impression that Crisis Suits are no longer the answer to everything that they once were either. Have they fallen from grace, or is it that fifth has made it so a selection of other units can fill those varied roles?

What is the approach that people recommend new players in fifth take? By this, I refer to building a force (eg Battleforce + Skyray, then...) and the basic tactic to follow with this. It seems to me, based on what I heard, that the only way to run the list is 2-3 units of Crisis/Stealth Suits, minimum Fire Warriors in a Fish, lots of Kroot/Hounds, maybe some Piranhas or Pathfinders, then 2-3 Railheads, maybe a Skyray. Does that pretty well sum-up what you need to aim for, or is that just one way?

They also always struck me as an army begging for heavy conversion (so much plastic!!), but I never see anything other than the odd bit of battle damage. Is it that the fluff is too restrictive here, or simply that I have not seen the right armies?

As I am not a Tau player, I do not troll the Tau threads. As a result, all I ever see are complaints about how bad they are in fifth, which is why this thread perked my interest a little once again.

For a new player I would personally not take the Tau Battleforce simply as it gives you like 4 Stealth suits which are not that great.


Really

1 Squad Firewarriors and Devilfish
3 to 5 Crisis suits
Kroot Squad
Pathfinder Squad w/ Devilfish
Hammerhead

is a great start. Its just expensive money wise.

Also, if you want a Hammerhead, buy the sky ray box and invest in some rare earth magnets. That way you can turret swap and use it as either A devilfish, Skyray or Hammerhead all from one kit.

I've totally said this like 8 gazillion times.

Most of all though Invest in KROOT.

In my experience, I've had great success with full-mech tau.

The sweet spot for this army is 1500-1750 points. Once you've already filled all three heavy slots, it's all downhill from there in comparison to, say, marines.

The keys to my success have been stealth marker teams, SMS, and twin-linked flamers.

Kroot are not that great. Cheap, yes.

Cover saves help them a bit. But when it comes down to it they have no save in close combat. 6+ if you invest a little bit. Their weapons are rapid fire for some ungodly reason. And While they can smoke a Tau Fire warrior in H2H combat, or even an IG, almost everything else in the game can smash them.

The only reason to have them in your army is to get another Troop choice and hide their asses in some woods with an objective.

Though I have to admit it is funny as hell to use a Kroot heavy army and Flank in on another Tau army. Hehe.

Markerlights are key. Pathfinders are good because of their ability to have three markerlights which will help out your troop squads. Broadsides are disgusting. I would only take one hammerhead and 6 broadsides i find it is very effective.

I dont' know if its just me but i never use Kroot, just personal prefernce. I prefer to shoot them and move my troops around with devil fish.

They are by no means a bad or weak army. They have the best guns in the game and can tear apart any mech list.

Depending on what the OP is looking for really will influence what he'll pick up. I just wanted to collect as much Tau as possible as I wanted a full army. I have almost everything except piranah's, kroot hounds (they're rare where I live), and krootox.

The first thing I bought was the Tau Battleforce as it gives you a nice base of models to start off with and it'll most likely form your core army until you expand.

Hollismason has given some crazy good ideas. If at all possible, always pick the skyray box over the hammerhead as you'll get both sprues in the box.

My personal belief is that a Tau army MUST have some kind of Heavy Support Railgun in it...whether its a Broadside or a Hammerhead its up to you. I prefer mixing it up.

The magnets are a good idea. I personally don't like using them despite it being a smart idea. I just like the fact that I have 30 different Crisis Suits for display....but its crazy go nuts expensive.

Starting out, I bought the Battleforce, an extra box of Firewarriors, and 3 Crisis Suit boxes.

Kroot are not awesome; Kroot HOUNDS are awesome. Also Kroot have 3 attacks on the charge. Kroot hounds have ini 5.


Tau Pathfinders are metal and kind of pricey.


You can make Pathfinders by just simply taking a Tau Warrior with gun and cuttting it off at the barrel just look at the pictures of Pathfinders they are really easy to model.

Tau are not a good army for a competive player and here is why:

1. Assault got a lot more deadly in 5th edition, when Tau are assaulted, they crumble. The trick is to not get assaulted, however, because the Tau were a 4th edition codex things like troops & transports are not costed well. You are paying a point more for kroot then orks, while orks have a 6+ armor save,, Mob rule, assault guns, Waag special rule, and can take a Nob with power claw upgrades. Only 1 unit in the ENTIRE codex has access to a power weapon for Tau. Overcosted with no options (for basic troops) hurt the Tau

2. Fearless & stubborn is showing up more and more. All those markerlights & pinning checks don't do anythingthing when playing a deamon player.

3. No psychic defence. With Lash being pretty goood in 5th Tau have no real ability to counter it unless they go all mech.

4. In most US tournament enviroments winning isn't enough, you have to massacre to have a good chance of doing well in a tournament and very rarely do Tau massacre when facing the top tier armies with good generals.

Tau can win, but they don't often win big.

Elric of Grans wrote:Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have often considered Tau as a side-army. I have only seen them in action in fourth edition, however, and that player used to run a static list (he moved to Marines and, now, Guard in fifth).

One of my major concerns has been that they seem strategically and tactically limited compared to the fifth edition-ready armies. I already have two armies like that and do not want another. I have also always hated the look of Crisis Suits, so converting a bunch of them to look non-ugly sounds a little tedious. Oddly, I think the whole rest of the army looks awesome; how can I hate only one model? I get the impression that Crisis Suits are no longer the answer to everything that they once were either. Have they fallen from grace, or is it that fifth has made it so a selection of other units can fill those varied roles?

What is the approach that people recommend new players in fifth take? By this, I refer to building a force (eg Battleforce + Skyray, then...) and the basic tactic to follow with this. It seems to me, based on what I heard, that the only way to run the list is 2-3 units of Crisis/Stealth Suits, minimum Fire Warriors in a Fish, lots of Kroot/Hounds, maybe some Piranhas or Pathfinders, then 2-3 Railheads, maybe a Skyray. Does that pretty well sum-up what you need to aim for, or is that just one way?

They also always struck me as an army begging for heavy conversion (so much plastic!!), but I never see anything other than the odd bit of battle damage. Is it that the fluff is too restrictive here, or simply that I have not seen the right armies?

As I am not a Tau player, I do not troll the Tau threads. As a result, all I ever see are complaints about how bad they are in fifth, which is why this thread perked my interest a little once again.

I'll try and answer some of your questions...

For modding the suits, there are a ton of conversions you can do. The sprue itself comes with buckets of options and doodads. Or if you're a ForgeWorlder they've modding a bunch of different ones. For myself, I tend to still run my Crisis Suits faithfully. My circle of friends know I love my toys and crisis suits let your run options depending on what role you want. Fusion guns for AT, Flamer for anti-infantry, Missile Pods for range and S, etc. You can tailor them to fit any role you want them to. (My personal belief anyway). The bad thing is that my opponents tend to gun for them first because they know what they are capable of...that and the fact they are pretty large models.

In terms of tactic-wise, I for one would definitely pick up a Battleforce. Shop owners around where I live have basically told me that its one of the better battleforces out there. Pick up the SkyRay as hollismason said. Its a good deal. This way you get a skyray AND a hammerhead.

Again, railguns are great and that +1 on the vehicle damage table due to AP1 has saved my bacon. Hammerhead is good cause they have the submunition option (pieplate but lower S) and Broadsides are good for the twin-linked railgun. They both have different other options but this is my personal opinion of their best quality.

One thing that I've seen playing my Tau as well as reading other posts here is that a lot of players play Tau like they would with normal armies. Stand and shoot, take opponents assault, etc. I don't play like that anymore. If the opponent is coming close, I'll have my Firewarriors abandon their cover and bring in other troops to cover their retreat. I ain't gonna stay in cover and shoot you while you get ready to charge. I'll retreat and peg you while I'm retreating.

Well....I hope this helps you out even just a little bit, if at all.

asugradinwa wrote:2. Fearless & stubborn is showing up more and more. All those markerlights & pinning checks don't do anythingthing when playing a deamon player.

Pinning has only ever really been a minor effect of Markerlights. They're much more useful for decresing cover saves or increasing BS on other units. They're a fantastic synergy weapon, but anyone relying on any sort of pinning effect from just about any army since 3rd Edition codices started coming out and giving everyone some kind of leadership boost (a GW trend that has not yet abated) is going to lose. Pinning is worthless in 40K

asugradinwa wrote:3. No psychic defence. With Lash being pretty goood in 5th Tau have no real ability to counter it unless they go all mech.

This is a true weakness, but as the most popular semi 'power' build from the Tau Empire codex is just about all Mech, it's not as bad as all that.

asugradinwa wrote:4. In most US tournament enviroments winning isn't enough, you have to massacre to have a good chance of doing well in a tournament and very rarely do Tau massacre when facing the top tier armies with good generals.

Tau can win, but they don't often win big.

This is true, Tau specialize in fulfilling mission objectives and getting minor victories, which is great in non-Tournament games, but the Tau are even less well-designed for tournament gaming than 40K is as a whole.

They're a lot of fun to play casually, though, and I think the Battle suits are some of the most fantastic looking (and with magnets) and fantastically versatile models in the game. Plus, Railguns literally pwn all. If you run Mech, you need at least 2 Railheads, and if you run more of a Kroot'n'Suit approach, I'd say you need at least 4 Broadsides. I'd take those as 2 units of two with the support system that let's you split your fire.

Commisar Wolfie wrote:the tau are wierd hoffed freaks who cant ski very well and they only have 3 fingers. and they suck at close combat. communist pig dogs.

I think this post speaks for itself...

I strongly encourage the new player to sign up at advancedtautactica.com. Dakka Dakka offers a lot for the player of 40K, but ATT is one of the best concentrated doses of Tau love on the WWW.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I strongly encourage the new player to sign up at advancedtautactica.com. Dakka Dakka offers a lot for the player of 40K, but ATT is one of the best concentrated doses of Tau love on the WWW.

This man speaks the truth. ATT is a good place to browse. Tauonline.org is also a place that I browse.

Cool, never knew about ATT, but I would endorse Tauonline as a grreat site too.

asugradinwa wrote:In most US tournament enviroments winning isn't enough, you have to massacre to have a good chance of doing well in a tournament and very rarely do Tau massacre when facing the top tier armies with good generals.

Tau can win, but they don't often win big.

Agreed, unfortunately. If you're a decent person and painter, though, you might have a shot at tournaments with soft scores... which is why I'll consider my Tau at a RTT, but only my Daemons at 'Ard Boyz.

i always found tau kinda boring. just shoot run away shoot run away.

As opposed to the "stand still & shoot" IG or the Charge in regardless of Khorne?

Also, mount you hovercrafts on some form of flying base so that you can use the fish of fury, or whatever the thing is to hide behind your hovercraft and shoot underneath it, but not get assaulted.

DO NOT GET THEM INTO ASSAULT.
My friend collects them and they are (obviously) bad in assault.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you have to get them into assault use something with lots of wounds.

If you want to get to know 5th ed strategies for most Tau units, the Academy over at ATT is a fine place to start. You won't find a more helpful group of Tau players!

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewforum.php?f=34