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I think Nidzilla is cool but it's not something I would want to commit to fully because it feels somewhat one dimensional

I also think stealer shock is interesting but it is also again sort of one dimensional

Sometimes being one dimensional makes you very strong other times it hurts you potentially in the case of being an all comers list.

If I want to have a few elements of big MC's, and some genestealers but in a more well rounded list how do people suggest you start?

Ideally I would purchase models necessary for 500pt combat patrol type stuff or small skirmishes as I begin to paint, then grow to 750, 1000, 1500 etc

A lot of what I see discussed regarding Nidzilla/Stealershock etc are large point scale tournament style battles and not the FLGS smaller local games/friendly matches. I don't think anyone ever wants to shoot for only a friendly capable list however unless it is intentionally theme based

A lot of the threads I see mention Nidzilla and some Stealershock but a lot of those are also a couple years old which can get confusing as to what is currently accurate.

For nids in smaller games I recommend lots of gaunts, one squad of genestealers, and 4 or so warriors. If you do combat patrol type games Fex's are usually not allowed. Not only that, in small games like that Fexes die easily because of the high shot volume that will be poored into it.

At 1k points I suggest 1x HT, 1x Fex (CC or shooting variant, heavy type), 1x elite fex, some gaunts, 1 squad of genestealers

Anything bigger it becomes fishy. I normally play 2k games, but I have done a few 4k games in the past month. For huge games I HIGHLY recommend unloading as many Fex's and HT's as you can. I run 5 fexes and 3 HT's, plus about 100 gaunts, 45 genestealers, zoanthropes, etc.

With nids, until you do higher point totals, I highly recommend shooty style armys. The main reason is because in low PT games assault style armys get blown away pretty quickly (especially if you play half board)

The best Tyranid lists are the mixed ones. Going full Stealer Shock, full Nidzilla, full anything winds up with holes that need filling. As stated before, Tyranids work best as a shooty army. They can bring a ton of firepower to the game attached to monsters the size of a church.

At 500 points combat patrol style you'll want Warriors, a squad or two of stealers, and Gaunts to screen. The Warriors will want Deathspitters and a Barbed Strangler, mixing their secondary weapons to take advantage of wound allocation. A flurry of S6 blast templates from 24" attached to a squad of 10 individual wounds hiding behind gaunts or in cover for a 4+ save is just nice.

When you hit 1000 I'd probably swap out the Warriors for a shooty Tyrant and pick up two cheap Carnifex (which you will later use as Elites). At that point you could give two min squads of Gaunts Without Number for backline objective sitting and a Synapse Zoey or two. Zoanthrope are 2+ armor and a 3+ cover save after going to ground will keep it on the board for a good long time.

At 1500 you can get a second Tyrant or bring your Warriors back in, pick up two Sniperfex as your heavies, keep an Elite fex on hand, get more Stealers, etc.

At 1850 you can bring in other toys like Lictors, a second tyrant (if you went with the Warriors instead at 1500) or Warriors (if you picked up the second Tyrant at 1500).

If you'd like I have a pretty fun 1500 tourney list on hand I can post, it has a nice mix of long and mid-ranged shooting as well as a healthy amount of assaulting.

Sure please do post the mixed list is what I would like to go with.

When it comes to Gaunts are Termagaunts the way to go or is it sort of up in the air. I know spinegaunts are cheapest

When it comes to Gaunts are Termagaunts the way to go or is it sort of up in the air. I know spinegaunts are cheapest

at 2000 pts try fielding:
4 squads of stealers to outflank with upgrades to your liking
4 shooty Fexes (keep them survivable with extra armor/wounds etc.)
2 shooty Tyrants with psychic scream with tyrant guard
3 Zoans with psychic scream

mix twin linked devourers (witch take the strength of the model firing the weapon and re-roll to hit and to wound) and barbed stranglers (large blast that causes pinning)

Opponents will never make a leadership test with all the modifiers around. the low NId BS is negated to much benefit when shooting blast weapons and twin linked weapons.

Allcomer lists and horde lists will have a real tough time.
The army itself is very easy to play.

Deuce11 wrote:at 2000 pts try fielding:
4 squads of stealers to outflank with upgrades to your liking
4 shooty Fexes (keep them survivable with extra armor/wounds etc.)
2 shooty Tyrants with psychic scream with tyrant guard
3 Zoans with psychic scream

I'm not the biggest fan of psychic scream lists because they are so heavily dependent on it. It also involves having your Zoanthrope (1KP a piece) within 18" of whatever you're trying to break the leadership of. Anything fearless won't care and others that do tend not to hang around 18" of your walking Tyrants.

Deuce11 wrote:mix twin linked devourers (witch take the strength of the model firing the weapon and re-roll to hit and to wound) and barbed stranglers (large blast that causes pinning)

This is a very poor mixture. Devourers are Strength-1, with a maximum of S6 (for your Carnifex only). Tyranid MCs do very poorly when mixing gun roles. If you want long guns, put the Strangler with a Venom Cannon. If you want mid-range, get dual TL Devourers. I wouldn't suggest assault MCs, but they can be had for cheap.

One very very highly suggested thing to do would be to magnetize all of your MCs, especially your carnifex. It's very easy to do and doesn't take much more extra effort or cost to model.
The reason for this is because Carnifex are so wonderfully versatile. Just in the 114pt or less Elite spot you can take these fun builds:
Dakkafex: Dual TL Devourers, Enhanced Senses
Ninjafex: Dual Talons, Miasma, +WS. This guy hits WS4 units on 3's and gets hit on 4's. He makes WS5 things hit on 4's against him rather than 3's (Daemon Princes, various Eldar, etc).
Boomfex: Talons/Strangler. Not a huge fan of this guy, but others wear by him.

More to come later, break's over.

Kirbinator wrote:

I'm not the biggest fan of psychic scream lists because they are so heavily dependent on it. It also involves having your Zoanthrope (1KP a piece) within 18" of whatever you're trying to break the leadership of. Anything fearless won't care and others that do tend not to hang around 18" of your walking Tyrants.

18" is quite large and there is no necessity to have every single psychic scream unit in range. if you win CC by say 2 and then happen to be in range of 2 screaming models then a Ld 10 unit has to roll under a 6 on 2d6 in order to pass... very difficult ot do and happens often

Kirbinator wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:mix twin linked devourers (witch take the strength of the model firing the weapon and re-roll to hit and to wound) and barbed stranglers (large blast that causes pinning)

This is a very poor mixture. Devourers are Strength-1, with a maximum of S6 (for your Carnifex only). Tyranid MCs do very poorly when mixing gun roles. If you want long guns, put the Strangler with a Venom Cannon. If you want mid-range, get dual TL Devourers. I wouldn't suggest assault MCs, but they can be had for cheap.

My apologies for my lack of clarity. I was not insinuating that you mix these armaments on Each MC. Instead, 2 of the MCs should have TL Devours while another 2 MCs have barbed stranglers etc. I agree that MC shouldn't mix gun roles. Further, it is my opinion that all units should have a clear objectve and roles should not be mixed.

Kirbinator wrote:
One very very highly suggested thing to do would be to magnetize all of your MCs, especially your carnifex. It's very easy to do and doesn't take much more extra effort or cost to model.
The reason for this is because Carnifex are so wonderfully versatile. Just in the 114pt or less Elite spot you can take these fun builds:
Dakkafex: Dual TL Devourers, Enhanced Senses
Ninjafex: Dual Talons, Miasma, +WS. This guy hits WS4 units on 3's and gets hit on 4's. He makes WS5 things hit on 4's against him rather than 3's (Daemon Princes, various Eldar, etc).
Boomfex: Talons/Strangler. Not a huge fan of this guy, but others wear by him.

I was essentially suggesting the Dakkafexes and Boomfexes should be fielded alongside a pimp Choir including two Shooty Tyrants all the while accompanied by 40 or so outflanking stealers.
It works.

That is all

Deuce11 wrote:I was essentially suggesting the Dakkafexes and Boomfexes should be fielded alongside a pimp Choir including two Shooty Tyrants all the while accompanied by 40 or so outflanking stealers.
It works.

I'd have to agree with that, it definitely works. Makes for a little bland of a list, but it works.

In that 1500 list I posted, my lists typically take a second tyrant instead of that Warrior squad. I included the Warriors in that one, though, because you mentioned aiming for a scaled list. You can use those Warriors all the way from Combat Patrol to Apocalypse and they will be effective the whole way through.

One thing you want to avoid with Tyranids is going overboard on biomorphs. Yes, you can create a 250pt monstrous Carnifex of assaulting doom. And he will walk around the board for three turns doing nothing, and hoping it can catch up to something that doesn't kill it outright like Ghazzy, Nobz, high-strength power weapons, etc.

The only reason I include a 200-point flying tyrant is because he's so marvelously effective at 1850 and below with his 30" threat range and being able to catch up to things it wants to assault (tanks, skimmers, etc). At 1850 and 2k, though, it's something of a liability since if your opponent so chose he could probably kill it with a turn of massed firepower. Still, that's a whole turn of not shooting anything else, especially if you use cover effectively.

So at some point you go from Warriors to a Flyrant as its called who has the twin linked deathspitters and moves, shoots them, then charges in?

I bought the little 5 termagaunt pack just to test some painting, am I going to have to go and buy different models just to represent spinegaunts?

Then once I get above 1k I can bring back the warrior squad as elites.

With the Without Number rule when each model dies it respawns on my table edge? Do I get to move it next turn even though its not actually in a unit or do you have to wait until all models are dead in which case you have a brand new unit that replaces the one that has now been killed?

If my Warrior squad all takes Death Spitters and one takes a Barbed Strangler do I want to stick with ranged weapons for the other models secondaries or does it matter since they can only shoot one weapon per turn anyway

Also I have seen mention of stealers with rending but I dont see that as an option they can take in the codex?

Jaynen wrote:So at some point you go from Warriors to a Flyrant as its called who has the twin linked deathspitters and moves, shoots them, then charges in?

I'd trade the HQ Warriors for the Dakka Flyrant (TL Devourers, Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Winged, Warp Field, 196pts) once you hit 1k and leave him in the list until you hit 2k. Even then he's good, but can go down quickly if your opponent demands it and a walking Tyrant with Guard survives longer. This guy is for shooting, 12 S5 twin-linked re-roll wound shots per round with a 30" threat range is a very nice thing to have. The only time you assault is when a tank is around or there's a transport you need dead and you have other things in range to assault the passengers. If you can help it, don't use this guy to assault infantry, especially ones with hidden powerfists. Now, if a line of IG or Tau suits are sitting around and managed to not die to the 12 shots, they're a nice squishy target that can't touch your Flyrant.

Jaynen wrote:I bought the little 5 termagaunt pack just to test some painting, am I going to have to go and buy different models just to represent spinegaunts?

Hardcore WYSIWYG players will demand that a spinegaunt be a Gaunt with dual Spinefists. I'd just be happy you have a Gaunt on the board.

Jaynen wrote:Then once I get above 1k I can bring back the warrior squad as elites.

At 1500 or better, yes, you could bring them back in as either Elite or HQ. Some tourneys like to make HQs worth extra kill points and such so you're better off calling them Elites in that scenario, but it doesn't make a difference as far as normal gameplay is concerned. It does when you hit 1850 and can readily bring two Tyrants and the Warriors, though.

I prefer two Tyrants, but there's no reason to let models you spent time, money, and effort on to sit on the sidelines. They're still quite good at laying down some heavy firepower. One volley from these guys will wipe out an ork unit pretty readily and even have a chance to pin it from the Strangler shot.

Jaynen wrote:With the Without Number rule when each model dies it respawns on my table edge? Do I get to move it next turn even though its not actually in a unit or do you have to wait until all models are dead in which case you have a brand new unit that replaces the one that has now been killed?

Without Number states that when the entire unit is gone, the whole unit comes back on from your board edge next turn. Keep in mind that this is entirely optional, you are not required to bring them back whenever they die. In objective missions, this is invaluable because you can stick one or two objectives near your table edge very easily. Just be sure to keep some Synapse back field to keep them company so they remain scoring troops. In kill points missions, use them as a screen or as bait for your opponent to waste shooting rounds on. A squad of 8 Gaunts in cover while lurking and going to ground is a 2+ cover save. Once they're dead, leave them dead.

Jaynen wrote:If my Warrior squad all takes Death Spitters and one takes a Barbed Strangler do I want to stick with ranged weapons for the other models secondaries or does it matter since they can only shoot one weapon per turn anyway

Your Warriors should be set up like this:
Warrior A: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
Warrior B: Deathspitter, Lash Whip
Warrior C: Deathspitter, Spinefists
Warrior D: Deathspitter, Rending Claws
Warrior E: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

The secondary weapons are only there to make each model unique to take advantage of Wound Allocation rules. It's the same thing Ork Nobs, SM Command Squads, Tau Crisis Suits, etc do to keep as many multi-wound models on the board while taking wounds. This will let you put a single wound on all five Warriors before you need to remove a model, meaning they have a fair bit of staying power while staying in cover and not taking a flamer to the face.

If you have the patience to magnetize these guys, it's probably a very good idea, as well as magnetizing your Tyrant and Carnifex.

Jaynen wrote:Also I have seen mention of stealers with rending but I dont see that as an option they can take in the codex?

Genestealers automatically come with rending claws. Do not give them any other weapons, they do not need Scything Talons as the points are better spent on more Genestealers. The only three upgrades you should consider are Scuttlers, Feeder Tendrils and Flesh Hooks. You'll have to choose between Tendrils and Hooks, and they're both good choices. Most of the things I assault with them are in cover, so attacking at I6 is more important to me than re-rolling missed WS6 attacks. Some people swear by Extended Carapace since it gives you armor saves against Bolters and Flamers, but to me it's just too pricey. I'd rather stick to cover and assault flamers before they can torch my Stealers. Obviously there are times when you can't prevent it, but usually you can.

Ah I see I didn't see where it stated they came with rending but kept hearing they had it. The stealers that is. Started painting gaunts tonight well see how it goes

I understand the wound allocation thing was just not sure if you were actually wanting to use them at all in assault or mainly mix it up just for the wounds.

Is lurk only possible when not under synapse as its an option given with instinctual behavior?

Jaynen wrote:Is lurk only possible when not under synapse as its an option given with instinctual behavior?

That's correct. If you have mobile Synapse like Warriors and Zoanthrope who have a fair bit of range with their shooting you can move just a bit further than 12" from your Gaunts to give them Lurking as part of Instinctual Behavior. Then near endgame you can move back within range to make them a scoring unit.

But to make them go to ground do you have to do that when they are in synapse and then leave for them to also be lurking? Or can they go to ground on their own

Jaynen wrote:But to make them go to ground do you have to do that when they are in synapse and then leave for them to also be lurking? Or can they go to ground on their own

Someone can feel free to correct me on this, but there's nothing in the rules for Going to Ground that say the unit who does it must also have the ability to move without taking leadership tests or be scoring. It simply says that a model being fired upon can choose to go to ground after wounds have been tallied against it from shooting.

Lurking automatically happens when the Gaunts start their turn more than 12" away from Synapse. Note that they must be 12" away from a Synapse source at the start of your turn, so sayeth the codex, so even if your opponent kills off your Zoanthrope at the bottom of the last turn, those Gaunts are still scoring if they started within Synpase on your turn.