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A few weeks ago my mum promised she'd buy me something from GW if I did well on my exams this term. I'm pretty sure I want a Land Raider of some description but I'm still not sure what kind. I'm thinking either a regular Land Raider or a Crusader. What do you think?

How do you intend to use it?
The normal one is more defensive and if you put a Tactical Squad in it, it can capture an objective. Like the other ones, but with more range to keep everything away.

This is a good topic about Land Raider varients. It should help you decide.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/245840.page

I personally would go for the vanilla LR. The 2 TL Lascannons are really useful against more targets than the crusader hurricane bolters. For the crusader to really work it has to be really close (ie in melta distance) where as the Godhammer can destroy tanks and ICs from miles away and be safe from most return fire. The crusader only works against hordes most of the time. It really depends on your strategy and your opponent but I personally would take the vanilla.

No love for Redeemer?

I think the Redeemer would be better against hoards because of the templates. I basically see the Crusader as one that's trying to do both roles, while the normal one and the redeemer are more specialised.

This is true, but again the redeemer has to get too close then *BANG* multi melta to the face.

I'll stick to the old Godhammer. But then as a Chaos and GK player I cant get any Redeemers anyway though they are pretty cool . I'd definately take them over crusaders. Seriously who needs another squad of bolter?

My main opponents are Eldar and Imperial Guard. I don't hold any love for the Redeemer whatsoever (a bit too Salamandery for me, after all, I'm an Imperial Fist). My preffered style of play concerning IC is to get my main character to single them out in combat (a bit more epic, if slightly inefficient ). The trouble with the Godhammer is no Frag Assault Launchers, but I guess it is more flexible with the Heavy Bolter and Lascannons. I do like the idea of having a Crusader charging through piles of Guardsmen though...

All my friends at school keep telling me "Crusader," it seems very appealing seeing as how the Godhammer only gets a maximum of five shots each turn, assuming you don't pimp it out with a Storm Bolter etc. The Godhammer will definately be good against my friend's Leman Russ Punisher. If the Crusader does need some anti-tank firepower, I could always give it a pintle-mounted multi-melta.

AAAAHHHH! It's sooooo confusing!

Alright then. Redeemer is anti-hoard, just not the IG kind. I'd say go for the normal one for the tank killing power as you probably will have enough bolters to take out the other threats anyway.

I vote for Crusader:
-Bigger capacity for more whoop ass.
-It's going to end up closer to the enemy anyway, so you'd rather go for closer range guns.

Buying the Crusader + magnets = Redeemer for kicks.

Leave the regular LR to the sort of army that is lacking in ranged AT, SM can get crazy amounts of AT, so the LR is somewhat lacking IMO.

My 7 Cents.

Crusader is by far the most useful of the 3.

Redeemer is worse in a meta game where melta weaponry is spammed.

Vanilla is terrible for the points cost. It has less firepower than a vendetta and costs way more.

Timmah wrote:Crusader is by far the most useful of the 3.

Redeemer is worse in a meta game where melta weaponry is spammed.

Vanilla is terrible for the points cost. It has less firepower than a vendetta and costs way more.

Terrible?! It's got 2x TL Lascannons, AV14 all around, A TL Heavy Bolter, and especially POTMS and an assault ramp. It's quite worth it. Vendetta may be fast but it's still got a BS of 3 and AV12 max. It's not the though cookie to crack like a LR.

It all depends on which to use. If you KNOW you are going to want to use the LR aggressively and assault something out of it (in other words get close to the other guy!) then use the LRC. If you are probably going to stick maybe a tac squad in it or scoring sternguard, then keep with the Godhammer for fire support.

crusader. holds more troops which is really why you bought it in the first place

I will say what I say everytime this question comes up:

All LR varients are transports first and gunboats second.

This is where the LRC shines: Larger transport capacity + short range guns + frag launchers means that you will always be using to close with the enemy...which is the job of a transport.

If you want to just shoot, there are cheaper platforms for LCs. Also, MEQs don't need an AV 14 bunker in which to hide a scoring unit. You are better off taking 3+ armor/4+cover when babysitting a home objective and spending your points on units that will actually kill something, trather than wasting 250 points on a bunker.

Save your 250 points for a vehicle that will actaully help you TAKE objectives. This leaves you with the LRR or LRC. Of those, I prefer the LRC for its transport capacity...the basic job of all LRs.

I'll follow the lead here and say that it depends on what's in your list, if you have a bunch of bolters everywhere, and not as much anti-armor, or if you know your oponent will park a Russ or some other tank on top of an objective to try and stop your land raider, then take the Godhammer, if you already have lots of anti tank (ala Lascannons and/or Melta guns everywhere) then the Crusader would be better. The land raider is an assault vehicle, so you should put something really terrifying in that tank (Yes even the Godhammer) the LR has machine spirit for a reason.

What are you going to use it for? What is going to ride inside?

Answer those questions and that should give you an idea about what you want. If its Terminators (which most people will tell you it should be) then the crusader is the best bet as it nets you room for 8 terminators vs the 6 of the other variants. The frag launchers are only important if you do choose termies for the transport as all of the other infantry options in the codex have assault grenades.

As it was said before, the Land Raider is a transport first and a weapons platform second. against guard I would tend to lean towards the crusader first, and possibly the Phobos second. The Redeemer has a place but really only operates in melta range. The plus side is that if it survives a turn it can wreak havoc.

Cheers
~Volkan

Crusader hands down.

More capacity is too good to pass up. Also you can use magnets and switch out to vanilla LR if you want

Magnetize so you can do it as any of the three.

The crusader is the best for what I like- slamming termies or blood claws down an opponents throat.

Buy the Vanilla Land Raider box, the Land Raider Crusader pack (contains both the Redeemer and Crusader weaponry), and few good rare-earth magnets.
Voila. You now own a Land Raider chassi you can pimp out to be either of the three.

Hell, buy the Landraider Terminus Ultra kit (unless you have a Predator, as you get the extra lascannon sponsons from there as well), a few more magnets, and you can even utilize the Apocalypse Terminus Ultra pattern.

As previously suggested -

Purchase Vanilla Land Raider.
Purchase magnets.
Purchase Crusader/Redeemer Bitz.

Now you can run whatever you want - whenever you feel like it.

personally I run all 3 raiders. I like redeemers and their ungodly flamers, generaly use em as assault platforms for my TH/SS termies and a chaplain.

reg ones are good too. sit em on an objective with a tac squad inside, hard to remove from there.

crusaders, I only take em as a GK crusader, put the GK Grand master inside with a 5 man TH/SS termie squad, and give it the psi cannon bolts upgrade and again use it as an assault platform.

My suggestion stear away from the crusader. Go with a redeemer or a reg. Reg would be my choice for a first raider, as redeemers can requie some skill to get it into a postion to be worthwhile

Alerian wrote:I will say what I say everytime this question comes up:

All LR varients are transports first and gunboats second.

Which is why it's a heavy support option, right? A Landraider is designed to be the pinnacle of combination. It has the highest armor value possible, and large, scary weapons everywhere. According to his sig he's an imperial fist player, so if he plays a fluffy style, go godhammer. Crusaders are kept for Grey Knights and Black Templars. (And if they have them in the to-be-released Space Wolves codex, them too.)

crazypsyko666 wrote:Which is why it's a heavy support option, right? A Landraider is designed to be the pinnacle of combination. It has the highest armor value possible, and large, scary weapons everywhere. According to his sig he's an imperial fist player, so if he plays a fluffy style, go godhammer. Crusaders are kept for Grey Knights and Black Templars. (And if they have them in the to-be-released Space Wolves codex, them too.)

agreed, crusaders blow, period. only thing good about em is the 16 model carrying capacity and the frag launchers. otherwise they have to get too close to be usefull. and come on what kind of armament is 6 twin linked bolters. If you want bolters take a tac squad.

redeemers are second on my list of raider variants jsut because of the ability to move 6 and flame 2 units. kinda hard to turn down 2 s6 ap3 flamers. Only disadvantage it has is the proximity it needs to get to to be useful. Just about every army has something you dont want it to get close to. Thats why you make it so those units dont want to get close to it, reg or TH/SS termies, or sternguard make idel passengers for em. But at least its 10 points cheapr than the regular raider and the crusader so you can give it that juicy MM to even it out with the other raiders points cost and have another high strength medium range attack.

the godhammer has manuverability and hitting power in one. can move 6 and still fire 2 lascannons at 2 different targets thanks to POTMS. or stand still and fire 2 lascannons at one thing and HB at another.

ManwithIronHands wrote:
agreed, crusaders blow, period. only thing good about em is the 16 model carrying capacity and the frag launchers. otherwise they have to get too close to be usefull. and come on what kind of armament is 6 twin linked bolters. If you want bolters take a tac squad.

I'd say its a defensive armament. You can move 6 and fire 2 Hurricane Bolters a TL Assault Cannon and if you bought one a Multimelta at another target using PotMS. Seems like a good amount of firepower to me. It also can carry an extra 2 terminators compared to the other Land Raider variants. The Redeemer is 10 points cheaper, personally I would invest those 10 points towards extra armor first. Yea that makes it 5 points more than the other stock variants but it seems like a no brainer, if you are putting something into a Land Raider might as make sure its going to keep moving every turn to get them where they want to go.

Personally I like the Phobos, its got a nostalgia factor and it doesn't need to race forward to contribute. At the same time it is lackluster because it doesn't perform the role of an assault transport as well as the other variants. Just my thoughts.

Cheers
~Volkan

Now that the redeemer/crusader weapon sprue is available to buy I'd suggest getting a lascannon 'raider and ordering the weapon sprue. Then you'll have the parts for all three.

I was thinking I would put a Terminator Squad and a Librarian in Terminator armour and use it to just run over heaps of Guardsmen then come pouring out of it and kill everything (using it offensively). I think maybe the Crusader, I can always give it a pintle mounted Multi Melta to take out other vehicles. I don't really fancy the idea of just using something like a Land Raider as a firebase anyway, a bit of a waste IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Because the Hurricane Bolters are Strength 4, doesn't that also classify them as Deffensive Weapons?

Volkan wrote:I'd say its a defensive armament. You can move 6 and fire 2 Hurricane Bolters a TL Assault Cannon and if you bought one a Multimelta at another target using PotMS. Seems like a good amount of firepower to me. It also can carry an extra 2 terminators compared to the other Land Raider variants.

Beleive me its not that much fire power. yeah bolters can fire cuz there defensive but really all you can shoot em at is infantry, imo unless your BT its a waste of 250 points. as for the extra 2 termies. an 8 man termie squad is gonna run 360 points base. plus the 250 point LRC thats a total of 410 points minimum. thats a tank with a bullseye on the front and a kick me sign on its back playing loud annoying music. its gonan attract every lascannon, melta weapon, and in general any and all anti tank fire. and with a unit group that expensive your not gonna have many more vehicles than that.

volkan wrote:The Redeemer is 10 points cheaper, personally I would invest those 10 points towards extra armor first. Yea that makes it 5 points more than the other stock variants but it seems like a no brainer, if you are putting something into a Land Raider might as make sure its going to keep moving every turn to get them where they want to go.

I completely agree with your statement here, extra armor is worth it on a LRR. there also generally seen as an infeior LR variant so theres more chance that its not gonna get shot while it makes its way towards their lines, it will when it starts to get into the threat zone but whatever is inside is going to be alot closer to the enemy if/when it goes up.

Ultramrinelord wrote:I was thinking I would put a Terminator Squad and a Librarian in Terminator armour and use it to just run over heaps of Guardsmen then come pouring out of it and kill everything (using it offensively). I think maybe the Crusader, I can always give it a pintle mounted Multi Melta to take out other vehicles. I don't really fancy the idea of just using something like a Land Raider as a firebase anyway, a bit of a waste IMO

you dont really want to brin a raider anywere near guardsmen. An IG player who knows what hes doing usually brings 3-6 melta guns to the table if he knows hes playing marines. if you cant kill em from far away they will shred your landraider then pop your termies the next turn or hit you with o say 200 lasgun shots. 100 will hit. 30 will wound. make 30 2+ saves. your bound to loose 1-3 termies from that.

Beleive me assaulting guard seems like a good idea but its not you win combat by any more than 2 kills and those guardsmen are running away leaving your precious termies open for 40 frfsrf lasguns or between 80 and 120 shots. dice are the bane of the terminator.

Agasint guard your better off taking a devie squad with 4 lascannons and a twin lascannon razorback for about 300 pts. and a 4 heavy bolter and twin heavy bolter razorback for 190 pts. which is about equal to a termie lib at 135 points base, termie squad at 200 pts base, and a LRC at 250 base.

ManwithIronHands wrote:as for the extra 2 termies. an 8 man termie squad is gonna run 360 points base. plus the 250 point LRC thats a total of 410 points minimum. thats a tank with a bullseye on the front and a kick me sign on its back playing loud annoying music. its gonan attract every lascannon, melta weapon, and in general any and all anti tank fire. and with a unit group that expensive your not gonna have many more vehicles than that.

Yeah youre right but its worse than that. Try 610pts minimum. Maths was a bit messed up there.

Madgod wrote:Yeah youre right but its worse than that. Try 610pts minimum. Maths was a bit messed up there.

I messed up more math than that an 8 man termie squad is only 320 points not 360 so it would be a minimum of 570. but gimi a break its 5 am here and ive been up since noon yesterday.