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alright guys so i have been messing around with some ideas...how does this sound.

HQ:
Khorne Lord (attached to zerker squad)
-Blood Feeder

Troops:
8x Zerkers
-Skull champ w/ PF
-Rhino

8x Zerkers
-Skull Champ w/ PF
-Rhino

8x Zerkers
-Skull Champ w/ PF
-Rhino

Elites:
5x Termie Squad
-Land Raider (Havoc Launcher)

5x Termie Squad
-Land Raider (Havoc Launcher)

5x Termie Squad
-Land Raider (Havoc Launcher)

Heavy:
Defiler
-Extra CC weapon

Defiler
-Extra CC weapon

Defiler
-Extra CC weapon

This list is somewhere around 2500 points. i also have enough regular space marines to swap out atleast 2 of the zerker squads. i'm not to sure if i want to do this though because i havent had much luck with regular marines in a list like this. let me know what you guys think. thanks.

I like the idea of a fully mech CSM army.
However, Berzerkers mounted in Rhinos is a bad idea.
Either mount them into LR's or replace them by CSM's.

This would mean taking pretty much ALL reg CSMs...siiiigh. I really do hate reg. marines. ill prob run this list with 2 units of Zerkers and 1 full unit of reg marines to see how it goes.

overall you think this list would do well though? Any HUGE changes you suggest?

Well, a shooty enemy can definitely deal with three LR's at the 2500 pt level.
The Termies don't need to be transported.
Think about mounting the Berzerkers into the LR's and letting the Termies deep-strike.

I would have to start the game with the Zerkers out of the LRs since they would still be dedicated...I could give it a try.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:I would have to start the game with the Zerkers out of the LRs since they would still be dedicated...I could give it a try.

This would not be a huge disadvantage.
How does the list then look like?
The Termies would deserve combi-weapons.

Berzerkers in rhinos are fine. Doubling their points cost to put them in a LR just isnt cost effective imo. 35pts for faster movement and armored protection is definitely worth it if you're taking lots of CC infantry squads.

Only things I might throw out there to consider:

1)Consider dropping a termie squad for a unit of raptors or bikers (I prefer raptors with IoK, cheap and get up the field quickly, give your lord wings and put him with them, fast moving hard hitting squad that moves fast without relying on a rhino).

2)Your heavy support is your call, but I personally would swap out 1 defiler for a squad of havocs with autocannons (my personal favorite, 8 str7 48" 4ap shots for cheap) or 3 oblits (helps you fill in with whatever weapon you need, and the deep striking is a nice option even if you don't always use it. Also, you didn't say what you dropped for the extra CC weapon. If you kept the flamer it will definitely make them nasty in an assault, but the reaper autocannon will keep some of their ability to attack from range and hurt light vehicles and infantry if their battlecannon is destroyed.

3)Consider changing the classification (note, you don't really need to alter the models in any way) of one of your berzerker squads to a regular csm squad with IoK. This allows you to take melta/plasma/flamer guns and still get some of the best assault troops in the game. Another option would be chosen with the same kind of setup, only they allow you to take more special weapons for a slight point increase.

4)Terminators were never my favorite, and you didn't really upgrade them in any way (or didnt write what you did upgrade) which is the only way I would take them (combi-weapons, heavy flamer, close combat weapons, Icon, etc). Seems like a giant usage of points for a reason I can't really figure out. Land raiders are definitely impressive on the defense end and taking hits, but they also cost as much as a normal squad of csms so you could replace those 5 man terms + LR with TWO full squads of csms, which in my book are far more useful if you arent going to upgrade the terms. So the land raiders arent a bad choice, but I would personally fill them with regular csms if you really have to take land raiders.

Here is an idea: Keep the termies in reserve and deploy your berzerkers out of Line of sight behind them. Now, the berzerkers embark turn 1 and you have LR full of berzerkers and deepstriking terminator death, and still have the FOC for 3 defilers. I ran a Hard boyz list that did this and it works pretty well.

I'd drop the bloodfeeder. Maybe its just me, but i've had more nasty experiences with Bloodfeeder than any other daemon weap. Double chance to cop a wound and not attack just seems to invite 1's for me. A Pair of lightning claws gives you a extra attack and reroll wounds, and since you havent given him any meltabombs etc i dont think hes going to be knocking on tanks hulls.

halsfield's comment is great! that is the basics about your roster, i would add just few my ideas

- you seem to be cc fan, great! drop at least 1 defiler, they are not cc monsters, as dreadnoughts are... I 3 is not enough!

- lord needs wings/bike, and a powerfist... however, play first matches with bloodfeeder, so you can consider its usefullness

- drop ALL but one raider, or do not take any... that points can be effectively used somewhere else, you want to approach the enemy and crush him, the raiders can't really fire if you want to keep up with the rest of army... it's far more effective to buy as many zerker/CSM squads for their points as possible... can you imagine e.g. shooty Tau Empire force, staring at your 70-80 zerkers speeding forward in rhinos 12" a turn? even if some of the rhinos get shot, the rest completes the ride next turn and threaten enemy directly, so your transportless zerkers can complete their way and charge without getting shot down

- i have not tried havocs with autocannons whatsoever, but they seem fun... or obliterators are rarely waste of points! consider bikers, they can attract enemy's fire for the first turn, and your rhinos arrive intact

Personally I have never had a problem with zerkers in Rhinos. As long as your list has enough target saturation, they'll spend their shooting on scarier things while your rhinos get there. (And hey, if they shoot the rhinos anyway, the scary stuff eats their face). A rhino isn't an assault vehicle, so what. Tank shock into their lines, or just stop a few inches away, and wait. Template guns won't fire due to proximity unless they're willing to risk taking out their own line for you, and even if they pop one and charge the zerks, they're doing your job for you.

Just be sure you take extra armor and reinforced rams on anything that is transporting berzerkers. I would trade in the havoc launchers for a start on those points. The only way to stop em is either a very, very lucky glance, or a shot big enough that target saturation will make it a rough choice for them which target to hit.

More 'zerkers in rhinos, less LRs and Defilers. If this is a CC army, you want as many CC units as possible, no matter their skill level. If you don't, you'll get torn apart. Get some anti-tank, it doesn't look like you have any. Putting in a small obliterator cult might be helpful if you keep the enemy distracted with berzerkers and as far away as possible. (Lascannons, lots and lots of lascannons. Forget about melta.)

I run a similar daemon list, and having the anti-tank firepower in a CC army is incredible. (w00t flamers with bolt!!)

wow guys thanks for all the replys. you guys have awesome ideas that i didnt really think about.

my idea with the land raiders and the defilers is not really that their AMAZING at what their doing but to be really really intimidating.

Deepstriking my termies still scares me a little. i can never seem to get them into play when i need them. I was hoping for the termies assaulting turn 2 out of the LR and the zerkers jumping out of the rhinos turn 2 and helping the termies turn 3.

The main reason i have my defilers is because their an awesome model and i love the pie plate they drop. i figured dropping 3 pie plates on turn one to break up their infantry before the termies get there would be good. then they could work their way up into CC or play bully and tie up units that cant hurt it.

The bloodfeeder is more of a fluff thing for me and to be honost, my last game it was AMAZING. it was probably luck but it did an awesome job.

i will prob stick with 2 defilers at least since 1 never works out. ill have to do some research with the last heavy slot. Or i could not field anything for the last heavy and use those points to beef up my termies.

I do agree that termies arnt the greatest things but without them my heavy slots will be filled by the LRs and we cant have that. i would drop running the LRs all together but they have been to useful for me in other games. The TL las cannon shots are nice and just being able to assault out of them makes it worth while for me.

thanks a ton guys for the responses. if anyone else has anthing else to add let me know. im going to go back through and read what you guys had commented on and update me list. thanks again!

Alright guys after doing some reading and looking at the advice that you guys had given, i put this new list together...let me know what you think.

HQ:
Khorne Lord (attached to zerker squad)= 140
-blood feeder

Troops:
9x Khorne Berzerkers= 229
-Skull Champ w/ PF
(Riding in Land Raider)

10x Chaos Space Marines= 190
-Aspring Champ
-Combie Flamer
-Melta Bombs
2x Melta Guns
Chaos Glory
(Rhino)

10x Chaos Space Marines= 190
-Aspring Champ
-Combie Flamer
-Melta Bombs
2x Melta Guns
Chaos Glory
(Rhino)

2x Rhinos=70

Elites:
Dreadnought=105
-TL Heavy Bolter

Dreadnought=100
-Multi Melta

10x Terminators=380
10x Combie Flamers
2x Chain Fists

Heavy Support:
Defiler=150
-Extra CC weapon

Defiler=150
-Extra CC weapon

Land Raider=255
-Havoc Launcher
-Daemonic Possession

Total=1959

I'm trying to keep the list at 2000. as you see i have more points to spend somewhere. Let me know what you guys think about this list. I have the guns on the dreadnaughts because that is whats on them at the moment.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:alright guys so i have been messing around with some ideas...how does this sound.

HQ:
Khorne Lord (attached to zerker squad)
-Blood Feeder

Troops:
8x Zerkers
-Skull champ w/ PF
-Rhino

8x Zerkers
-Skull Champ w/ PF
-Rhino

8x Zerkers
-Skull Champ w/ PF
-Rhino

Elites:
5x Termie Squad
-Land Raider (Havoc Launcher)

5x Termie Squad
-Land Raider (Havoc Launcher)

5x Termie Squad
-Land Raider (Havoc Launcher)

Heavy:
Defiler
-Extra CC weapon

Defiler
-Extra CC weapon

Defiler
-Extra CC weapon

This list is somewhere around 2500 points. i also have enough regular space marines to swap out atleast 2 of the zerker squads. i'm not to sure if i want to do this though because i havent had much luck with regular marines in a list like this. let me know what you guys think. thanks.

I like the idea, I ran a simular 2k point list against my friend (with a little change). The main issue is you have absolutally no shooting, so things like Biker lists would run circles around your CC units. Especially around 2500 points! You need more troops as well for objective games. Even for a fun list you still need to be able to win

I would consider changing out some termis for more khorne troops. Also, running vanilla termis is just pointless. Give each squad 5 combi weps + chain fist at least, make em a little more effective.

Also only one HQ? When running my khorne army I tacked in a single winged lash prince to help my khorne get into assault. It also provided a target to take lascannon shots and things away from my transports Putting things on the board people hate to see is a great tactic to ensure your other stuff survives haha.

Overall I suggest cutting down on the termis, running more normal CSM's, and possibly another HQ who is versatile. A chaos sorc would be perfect in a mech list like this. I would also say cut out the havoc launchers on the LR's and get demonic possession. On an assault list like this ignoring stunned/shaken results could be huge!

First off thanks for the reply, although, i was a bit confused because i changed the list around a bit and just posted it haha. thanks for the post about the other list though.

what do you think of the new list?

Use the points on MORE ZERKERS!!!! I'd say use the CSM as a defensive unit for the objectives, while using the terminators for traffic control over invaders. As for the zerkeres.... that should be obvious

aside from zerkers, anything i should drop or add? are they add ons to my units such as the weapons choices decent?

how do you guys think the dreadnoughts will do? would it be worth it to drop the termies and add another one?

I really can't tell you about CSM dreadnoughts, sorry. Otherwise, I'd reccomend proxying it first (unless you've bought it already) Its a great way to not get stuck with a sh*tty list.

I know it's not fluffy at all, but if I'm gonna take a Daemon weapon.. I'd want the Slaaneshi one

I still think your list suffers from a lot of misspent points, but you need to make it your own list that you find fun so I don't expect anyone to buy everything for solely competitive reasons. I'm mainly talking about the heavy support choices and your elites, but also the equipment of your csms (why not just go for IoK if you have extra points? and no powerfists?). IMO you want as many berzerker/csm squads as you can take in rhinos, and they are definitely worth more to your army than dreads, but if you have them already and want to use them go for it. You won't be in control of them for more than 2/3 of the time and they are easily popped and are not better than the same points of CSM/berz in cc.

I would recommend against a sorc, you'll get a lot of bad looks for that in a khorne army =p. Take a DP if you want, but I personally think if you want another HQ take kharn, he's cheap, the best CC HQ in the game, and fluffy.

Zid: read the whole post, he reposted his list right above your post >_<

im not really attached to the dreadnoughts but i am to the defilers. i just didnt want to run havocs or oblits...everyone runs them. i also wanted to mainly stick with a mech based army...my other army is a greentide ork build so i needed a change haha.

i do appriciate all the comments with both builds. for my other HQ i was thinking a DP. kharne is awesome but hes tough to have in a unit...considering he likes killing his own team mates.

im essentially looking to build a list using the stuff that i listed. i'm a little tight on cash so i dont want to go buy to much more at the moment but i do want something that will win me games.

also, i was just looking into the PFs for my termies. i could easiely fill them up with PFs which yes that would make a huge difference. ill prob drop the havoc launcher on the LR for more points as well. also i could only get like 4 or 5 zerkers for the price of my nought...i was going to use them as bullies for other units along with the defiler in CC. tieing up units that cant hit armor 12 sounds like a huge advantage imo. i may be wrong though.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:im not really attached to the dreadnoughts but i am to the defilers. i just didnt want to run havocs or oblits...everyone runs them. i also wanted to mainly stick with a mech based army...my other army is a greentide ork build so i needed a change haha.

i do appriciate all the comments with both builds. for my other HQ i was thinking a DP. kharne is awesome but hes tough to have in a unit...considering he likes killing his own team mates.

im essentially looking to build a list using the stuff that i listed. i'm a little tight on cash so i dont want to go buy to much more at the moment but i do want something that will win me games.

also, i was just looking into the PFs for my termies. i could easiely fill them up with PFs which yes that would make a huge difference. ill prob drop the havoc launcher on the LR for more points as well. also i could only get like 4 or 5 zerkers for the price of my nought...i was going to use them as bullies for other units along with the defiler in CC. tieing up units that cant hit armor 12 sounds like a huge advantage imo. i may be wrong though.

I can see saying everyone takes oblits, but havocs? Hardly anyone I've seen runs them but me and a couple others. I usually have to write multiple page comments to convince people that havocs arent a waste of points.

Kharne is great in a cheap csm squad in a rhino. You are talking about being worried of his 1's rolls when you have two dreads? A khorne list is supposed to be a little suicidal. on a 2+ he is destroying squads, on a 1 he is hitting a fellow, so 1/6 rolls he is hurting you, whereas the dreads are 2/6 for doing something you don't want.

You also have 2 dreads on the current list, so 2x 100ish = a sizeable amount of khorne berzerkers. I personally don't think you're going to run up against much that can't take down av12 in some way, and if they can't they are probably actually tying up your dread(s). I just don't see the benefit of a unit that can A)hurt your own troops or run off against an enemy he can't hurt or that will wreck him B)Gets fewer attacks than a similar pointed csm/berz squad C) Trades multiple wounds for unimpressive armor that most armies are tooled around defeating D)The infantry squad can have more special/assault weapons and nades. If they were normal dreads I might consider them, but personally they are too much risk for not enough gain.

I'm fine with the defilers, they really aren't the monsters in CC that they should be, but their battle cannon brings some serious ordnance firepower that is always helpful and if they get a weapon destroyed result they can tie up or destroy a large variety of units.

If this is all you have to play around with, then by all means do the best you can with it, but I'm trying to give my opinions so you can improve it. Kharn would be a lot cheaper to get than a DP (you can simply use a nice aspiring champ model or something vs a very expensive DP model).

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:Alright guys after doing some reading and looking at the advice that you guys had given, i put this new list together...let me know what you think.

HQ:
Khorne Lord (attached to zerker squad)= 140
-blood feeder

Troops:
9x Khorne Berzerkers= 229
-Skull Champ w/ PF
(Riding in Land Raider)

10x Chaos Space Marines= 190
-Aspring Champ
-Combie Flamer
-Melta Bombs
2x Melta Guns
Chaos Glory
(Rhino)

10x Chaos Space Marines= 190
-Aspring Champ
-Combie Flamer
-Melta Bombs
2x Melta Guns
Chaos Glory
(Rhino)

2x Rhinos=70

Elites:
Dreadnought=105
-TL Heavy Bolter

Dreadnought=100
-Multi Melta

10x Terminators=380
10x Combie Flamers
2x Chain Fists

Heavy Support:
Defiler=150
-Extra CC weapon

Defiler=150
-Extra CC weapon

Land Raider=255
-Havoc Launcher
-Daemonic Possession

Total=1959

I'm trying to keep the list at 2000. as you see i have more points to spend somewhere. Let me know what you guys think about this list. I have the guns on the dreadnaughts because that is whats on them at the moment.

Sorry for the late reply to the old list, take off Havoc on your LR (it will basically deliver something and thats it), split the termis into 2 units, maybe make one khorne? The list has turned unfluffy, so I dunno if your going for fun or competition or what bro. Lemme know what your goin for and I can better suggest

Zid wrote:

Sorry for the late reply to the old list, take off Havoc on your LR

Bad_Sheep37 wrote: ill prob drop the havoc launcher on the LR for more points as well.

Zid wrote:
I dunno if your going for fun or competition or what bro.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:
i also wanted to mainly stick with a mech based army...
im essentially looking to build a list using the stuff that i listed. i'm a little tight on cash so i dont want to go buy to much more at the moment but i do want something that will win me games.

I think all the good advice has been said so far bad_sheep37. Pretty much every good change that you could potentially make has been listed. It is just really up to you what you want to do with it since you're limited on models (as I think most of us are except for those 15000+ point army jerks).

Try some games out, let us know how it goes. If you need more help altering things based on your game results let us know. You'll know much better what works and what doesnt in your army and what you're willing to do about it.

I do agree. Thank you guys for all the help. Ill post a few games up asap and let you know how every piece did for me. Thanks again!

And remember, PROXIES!!! Try it before you buy it.