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I'm looking to make this list very competitive so C&C is very welcome. Please, have at it.

Teclis
475

Prince: Shield, Dragon Armor, Star Lance, Vambraces of Defense, Star Dragon
627

Noble: Lance, Dragon Armor, Shield, Barded Steed, Dragonhorn, Helm of Fortune
163

Mage: 2x Dispell Scroll
140

10x Archers
110

10x Archers
110

10x Archers
110

18x Phoenix Guard: Full Command, Skeinsliver, Banner of Sorcery
375

5x Swordmasters
75

5x Swordmasters
75

5x Dragon Princes: Full Command, Lion Standard
225

5x Dragon Princes: Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion
215

Repeater Bolt Thrower
100

Repeater Bolt Thrower
100

Repeater Bolt Thrower
100

TOTAL POINTS: 3000
MODELS: 81

I've been consider dropping the Swordmasters for fast cav, and I also wish I had a couple of Chariots in the list. Points are tight with so much tied into the heroes though. I also think it might be a good choice to drop the Noble in favor of fast cav or a Chariot, but I like one of the DP units having a lot of extra hitting power from him. I'm also really interested in Vortex Shard and if it is worthwhile. It is definitely a meta call, and an expensive one, but with the prevalence of Kairos Daemons, VC Mannfred, and magic in general at this point, it seems like I can really pull the backbone out of lists that are so focussed on it.

Just a question I play DE and would never take a unit of 5 Executioners (who I believe to be fairly similar to SM) in units of 5 so how effective do you think they will be?

The big difference being, Executioners do not have ASF, like the Sword Masters of Hoeth do.

I don't see what the Noble is there to do. I would drop him for either Eagles (these will come in really handy in every game) or more hitting power.

Agreed with Airmaniac on the Noble. He's not really doing much and could just as well be replaced by more dragon princes for the points. If you're intent on keeping the Noble, make him a BSB with the Battle Banner.

I would personally just outright drop the command on the two DP units for this list and instead bump them up to 6 guys apiece (assuming you drop the Noble).

This should give you enough points to get an Eagle (you'll need the march-blocker/redirector/WM or mage hunter) and possibly be able to bump the SM's to 7 each.

Yes, the SMs strike first and with all of my priority targets hiding i nthe unit of PG they won't attract much attention. My plan at the moment is to line them up on either side of the PG unit and use them to slam the flanks of things that the PG tarpit.

I don't really know what I was thinking with the Noble, and I agree that I'd rather have Eagles.

I'd like to keep the standards in the DP units because they are very handy, especialy the Lion Standard.

how about dropping the Noble to get a pair of Eagles and bump the Swordmasters to 7 each. Then drop the Champ and Musician from each DP unit and up them to 6-7 strong each as well. Does this sound good?

Well...

I don't know how you expect 5 Swordmasters to live through ANY turn of shooting.

You're wasting points, either combine the unit or just give up.

Now, your Pheonix guard are a great tar pit, but they are your only tar-pit.

Brettonians could probably run through your list, just charge through anything that isn't the Pheonix Guard or the Dragon.

You need more ranked up units, IMHO...

What about something like this. Since 5 swordmasters can't survive shooting, replace with 6 naked silver helms. drop the noble that no one likes for more silver helms. Is there any reason why MSU style is bad in warhammer fantasy? I'm probably going to run High Elves at Ard Boyz, and it'll be my first time playing since 7th edition first came out. I was thinking also, maybe drop some silver helms and the level 1 mage and get the seafareer bow and the reaver bow nobles? What about chariots? too easy to kill?

Is this too many models to bring to the table though?



627 1 Prince w/ Dragon Armor, Star Lance & Shield, Vambraces of Defense, Star Dragon
475 1 Teclis (Level 4 Wizzy)
140 1 Mage w/ 2x Dispell Scroll
255 21 Spearmen, Musician, Standard
110 10 Archers
110 10 Archers
110 10 Archers
110 10 Archers
126 6 Silver Helms
126 6 Silver Helms
126 6 Silver Helms
126 6 Silver Helms
126 6 Silver Helms
126 6 Silver Helms
100 3 RBT
100 3 RBT
100 3 RBT


2993 109

@Sazzlefrats
Points on the Spearelves are off. 21 Spears with full command are 214 points. Not sure where your 255 comes from.

With High Elves, you don't want to take more than your min Core unless you're building a fluffier list. Especially no more archers than you need - they're overpriced for what they can do. As it is, you only need 3 Core choices at 3k. Also, Silver Helms just aren't quite good enough to take over Dragon Princes, though spamming that many units of Silver Helms could be an interesting option.

With that many Silver Helms why not spam Dragon Princes with one less unit? As was suggested earlier, take minimum core as they struggle to kill anything (even spear elves) and are easy to be killed.

So we are suggesting something more like this? The spearman unit wasn't really (at least in my mind) designed to do any damage, but maybe tie something up long enough to get off a flanking move with the silver helms. I suppose there are enough units of dragon princes now, that its probably not really needed.

627 1 Prince w/ Dragon Armor, Star Lance & Shield, Vambraces of Defense, Star Dragon
475 1 Teclis (Level 4 Wizzy)
140 1 Mage w/ 2x Dispell Scroll
110 10 Archers
110 10 Archers
110 10 Archers
200 6 Dragon Princes w/ Champ
200 6 Dragon Princes w/ Champ
180 6 Dragon Princes
180 6 Dragon Princes
180 6 Dragon Princes
180 6 Dragon Princes
100 3 RBT w/ crew
100 3 RBT w/ crew
100 3 RBT w/ crew

2992 79 models

In the above list, nearly everything moves 18 a turn, do I need any eagles? I could ditch a dragon prince and a dragon prince champ, and thats the 50pts for an eagle. I'm kind of thinking probably not, but... the net effect is losing 1 wounds worth of models for a 3 wound model, does it make the army tougher or about the same, is it bad to have lots of small units?

I see the problem with your MSU list being that the prince units will bounce off (or get stuck in combat with) any serious daemon or vampire unit they bump into. Not to mention, by losing the phoenix guard, you've taken Teclis's bunker away and lost the banner of sorc that adds so much to his utility. I'd go with your first list, but run 1 prince unit instead of 2. Then, use the extra points to make the unloved noble a BSB with the battle banner. This'll give you 2 hammers (the dragon and the knights) to push around with Teclis's irresistible unseen lurkers. I'd also add at least 1 eagle, even if it came at the expense of a SM unit.

Just my 2 cents - it looks a lot like the hardboyz list I was thinking about taking.

One point - DP's have barded elven steeds, so their charge/march range is 16", not 18".

Wonkobaggins makes good point about Phoenix Guard with BoS as a Teclis bunker.

oh I see... wow, things have really changed in this army book vs the old army book.

Yeah, I wish they still had ithilmar barding.

How important is skeinsliver? How many other armies have a +1 to go first item? Do we still get a +1 to go first if we finsh deploying first, and warmachines all go down at the same time?

627 1 Prince w/ Dragon Armor, Star Lance & Shield, Vambraces of Defense, Star Dragon
475 1 Teclis (Level 4 Wizzy)
140 1 Mage w/ 2x Dispell Scroll
110 10 Archers
110 10 Archers
110 10 Archers
345 16 Phoenix Guard w/ Full Command, Skeinsliver, Banner of Sorcery
180 6 Dragon Princes
150 5 Dragon Princes
150 5 Dragon Princes
150 5 Dragon Princes
150 5 Dragon Princes
100 1 RBT w/ 2 crew
100 1 RBT w/ 2 crew
100 1 RBT w/ 2 crew
2997 85

So i see with the banner of sorcery, on average up to 3 chances for irresitable spells cast by teclis. Is high magic the way to go with him? Against what armies would I ever want something else?
I was really hoping to change this list from the OP, but I seem to be drawn right back to what it was originaly. (As a side benefit, aquiring the phoenix guard and 3rd rbt won't be too hard, my silver helms can double as dragon princes, and I can call it done)

Personally, I'm growing fond of the Skeinsliver, though it really shines best when you have a smaller force. Yes, if you finish deploying first, you end up with +2 to go first. Yes, all warmachines go down at the same time.

Against any armies with a lot of armor (Dwarfs/Brets) Lore of Metal is deadly.

I would almost consider dropping one of the 5 man units of DPs to bump the other 4 all up to 6, leaving enough points to get an eagle, or bring the PG up to 18.

Looks like a very hard hitting list with some good magic with tecils, whom i hate to play against. Gun line armies could be a problem though, especially if they have scouts or something else to hunt your warmachines. The star dragon will definately draw alot of fire power its way, which will probaly help all those DP getting to their destinations. This is a list id enjoy playing against.

Now I just need to find a way to get some phoenix guard... those guys are soo frickn expensive though.

Units of 7 Swordmasters as outflankers can be effective. 5 you have no room for any shooting casualties and might not maximize attacks.

Caradryan is a good protector for Teclis. Strength 5 flaming attacks and explodes if killed hopefully taking his killer with him. He is pretty expensive though costing more then a unit of dragon princes.

Swordmasters might actually be preferable to Pheonix Guard for defending Teclis. Yes they die to shooting easier but if something actually gets in combat with Teclis unit if you don't kill those in base contact with Teclis they get to swing and maybe kill him.

Skein sliver is very important because if you go first thats one less turn of your dragon and calvary getting shot before they can charge.

Not to confident in going exclusively with dragon princes if you get rubber lance syndrom and get stuck in you will have issues.

Really could use some Eagles for march blocking and attacking their seige machines.

Might be possible convert spearmen to pheonix guard using halberd bits from empire halberdiers if the bits are available cheap. Have not tried this.

Thanks Avariel...
I hadn't thought of empire halberd tips... I looked on the warstore.. OMG they got halberd tips for super cheap. 5 for $1. then I saw some amazon heads... with helmets... not too different than high elves. I'll see if I can order the lot, but I need to confirm he can ship me everything, i need them at least a week before the tournament so I'm not stuck ultra rushing things.

If I were worried about warmachines, would it be reasonable to dump say 5 dragon princes for 3 eagles, or kill a RBT and get 2 eagles?

I'd opt for the 3 eagles from dragon prince over dropping one of your RBTs, personally.