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Hello Dakka!

I'm a rather new player that bought the AoBR box for starters (and for cheap figures to practice painting with and for a cheap rulebook ). I also bought two more boxes (one of them a real METAL BAWKS!) for the SM, because I liked them for our small games.

However, I don't feel like Marines are gonna be the army I want to play primarily. Orks I find nice for small fun games, but they don't appeal to me as a long-term army, either. - So, I was trying to think of what I really would like to play and it resulted in the following:

1. Imperial Guard
2. Eldar

The point is now, I want to buy a basic army of one of those this month, using some birthday present money and using maelstrom's cool "buy it even more cheap" offer that only lasts this month. Therefore I'm in the situation of needing to decide rather quick which of those armies I'd enjoy more. I would like to ask you to write down why you do or do not play Imperial Guard or Eldar, so I get a little more viewpoints and more experience into this decision.

So, for those who have the time and interest, I listed my pros and cons about both armies further down. That's how I think about them now and maybe I'm wrong about something so you could tell me how you see it.

Why I like Imperial Guard:
1. From fluff view: I just can relate to them the best, like it works with many players, I think. I have a handful of short stories in my head I created while jogging about this cool new regiment I would paint up and the normal but brave soldiers fighting in it. I like the idea of the basic guardsmen with is M36 lasgun, going out to defend humanity. Well, he might have muthafething big-ass tanks as support, but you get the idea. I'd like to paint weathered, muddy APCs full of kit, carrying a handful of hardened veterans through the icy mountains of some distant planet...and I like the looks of the normal infantry and all the tanks and guns.

2. From playstyle view: I playtested a little mechanized force, using mainly chimeras and some backup heavy support and it really appealed to me. What I REALLY like about IG is the ability to issue orders to your troops. That adds a whole level of tactics over that of an army like SM, where every unit basically fights their own battles, I think. I like the LRBT for its place as the generic battle tank and I enjoy things like the griffon mortar, able to carry out precise support bombardment without LOS.

What I don't like about IG:
1. One of the two friends I usually play with already plays IG. Not that big of an argument, but sometimes I still think it would be nice if our possible battles wouldn't consist of IG, IG and Tau (third friend).
2. Uhm... I probably would get mad painting that many models, but I guess I could live with that. After I would have found a nice scheme, my pace would get better, I think.

Why I like Eldar:
1. From fluff view: Apart from what many people say, I think the Eldar are some of the more "good" races in the galaxy and in their motivations and plans I can understand them. They want to survive after the Fall, the biggest feth-up in the history of this galaxy, they know they made mistakes and now they just want to keep existing, maybe creating a new empire and get rid of all those Necrons and Chaos followers. (Compared to ork motivation - WAAAGH!!! - and tyranid motivation - Nomnomnom - and Chaos motivation - BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! - they seem rather sane, if you know what I mean.) Their aspect warriors are no semi-mindwashed killer monks like the Space Marines, living for nothing else; they are citizens of their craftsworld who wear the masks of their aspect, becoming killers for a moment of war, before returning to a rather normal life amidst their companions. (Exarchs are different, but that's a nice touch, I think.) I like the fact that they are not THAT stubborn and narrow-minded like the Imperium, althought that's some of the fun when playing Imperials. - I like the Eldar tanks and most of the troops in their design.

2. From playstyle view: I still need to really playtest some Eldar games, although from being on Dakka for quite a while now, I think I get an idea of how Eldar are played. Someone said that Eldar armies really have to work in harmony and to create a synergy between troops. I really like that aspect, that generalship is really an important part of winning the battle and that units have to work together. Don't get me wrong, generalship is needed everywhere, but, for example, Space Marines seem to be far more forgiving than Eldars and they don't rely so much on buffs by warlocks and farseers at the right moment to work. (Just skimmed through the Eldar codex again and am really excited about what a farseer can do to aid your army - while a Space Marine captain mainly runs around, trying to get into CC and kill stuff, like any other unit.)

What I don't like about Eldar:
1. I consider myself not that good of a painter at the moment and I think that Eldar units really deserve clean, crisp, good-looking paintjobs. While I think I can weather a chimera, I'm not sure I can give an Eldar grav-tank the cleanness and filigrane motives a vehicle like this deserves. The same with the infantry; I think I can make guardsmen look good, I'm not sure about aspect warriors.
2. Most Eldar models seem to be made of metal. That is somehow a problem with converting and, having painted some kasrkin of my friend, I really think I like plastic minis better.


Thanks for reading and I hope for some input!

I'd say Eldar (surprise, surprise) not only are they great models with a rich backround, but i find they play very well having lots of different units that are eaqch specialised in thier own way allows you to tailor your force to beat almost anything. Eldar were my very first army and the only reason i started them was because of the different colours and diversity and also i liked the fact of a race trying to rebuild themselves after a catastrophic event. Farseers, as you mentioned are great fun to work with and can be annoying to your opponent, a well crafted Eldar army played in the right way is both fun and hard to beat.

However I can see your main concern with the fact most models are metals, im annoyed about that too. It also makes it noticably more expensive. However i wouldnt worry about the painting aspect, im no 'eavy metal painter either, but a red grav tank with simple black stripes looks quite good.

I hope you found my advice useful!

I recently got back into the scene after a long time out. I went through the same dilemma you are going through now, trying to figure it what army i wanted to collect.

I ended up going for Imperial Guard, why? The weapons, the tanks, the mixture of troops and characters. I can relate much easier to the IG, the mass ranks of humans doing anything and everything they can against superior forces.

They have their elite troops, who are still "Only" human (give or take Ogryns/ratlings etc ).

The characters such as Commisars remind me of Warrant Officers in the British forces, the respect they are shown by even their superior officers and the way they instill discipline.

I plan on having my Guard army just like you said, battered and weathered. The way a real army is out in the fields. I hate looking at pristine power armour etc!

Play sisters of battle, all the good things you listed about IG with none of the bad!

Canonness Rory wrote:Play sisters of battle, all the good things you listed about IG with none of the bad!

Limited to just women though or do they have a few male "sisters"?

Are they not more expensive?

Yes, they are kind of more expensive, as they are all metal. They are due for an update sometime within the next 4 or 5 thousand years.

All sisters are women. However, Codex: Witch hunters (the SOB codex) can take some units from Codex: Imperial Guard, Codex: Space Marines, and Codex: Daemonhunters, all 3 of which are entirely male. Codex: Witchhunters may also take inquisitorial units, such as inquisitors, inquisitorial stormtroopers, land raiders, chimeras, assassins, orbital bombardments, etc.

I said Eldar as well. Though I am faintly aroused by the idea of sending thousands of men into a mass bayonet charge while you rain artillery upon them the eldar are just filled with awesome!

Typing this the idea of a conscript army with 1000 Basilisks became even more appealing....hmmnn...

I still say eldar for the stuff they can do. They do as much damage as any MEQs for half the points cost. Plus dont worry about painting you cant be worse than me/some of MY friends

Go eldar if not just for the fact that one of your main opponenets already plays IG. It would bring more variety.

Eldar are all cheaters so you should OBVIOUSLY play Bacon.

Bacon, most of their units can carry powerfists or thunder hammers. They are also very easy to paint, and can have ham for heavy support. Also, some basic bacon troops can take care of those annoying transports with the Sizzle Missile launcher. ONly thing? Tyranids love bacon, and they will eat them up, and with the swine flu rule, they might stall in the middle of a game.

Thanks for all your answers!

It seems that I really have to consider bacon as my main army. Would have to look out for those flamers and meltas of course, don't want to get my whole army fried on turn 1...

However, on more srs bsns: Though I like the general idea of Sisters of Battle, they really don't appeal to me. Where Imperial guardsmen are ordinary guys inducted from their homeworld and away from their families, maybe even properly introduced to the Imperial cult first in the boot camp...where guardsmen are like normal humans and quite multifarious in that way, Sisters of Battle are all orphans who listened to Schola Progenium indoctrinators since Age 3, who are even more zealous and fanatical and monk-like than Space Marines. At least as far as I know. And that way, they are far too much like SM to me to consider them as an army - semi-mind-scrubbed elite soldiers with few room for personality behind all that Imperial dogma. Furthermore, the fact that the models are metal does not really appeal to me, either. So, thanks for that input, Canoness Rory, but I don't think they'll become my next army.

On the question of IG vs Eldar: While the poll tends to favour Eldar, I'm still rather undecided. Even after having read the Eldar codex fluff parts, I'm not sure I can feel into them as I could into IG. As a quote in the codex says - I think it is from an inquisitor - the Eldar mind is just very different. While the fluff part may not be the primary concern of some players, I think I really need that part to have fun with an army over a long time.
On another thought, on one hand it is appealing to paint an Eldar army with all those different aspect colours, so that boredom can't arise...on the other hand, I think an IG army with a really uniform look would be cool, too, where it is clear from metres away that THIS is a battlegroup, these are soldiers fighting together, each squad only distinguishable from the other by only their squad markings...the tanks and APCs all in the same colours, with some official numbers and "personal" markings by the crew to differ from each other.

It's really a hard choice.
Playstyle-wise, I like the ability of IG to provide classical artillery support with a punch, either by MoO or by a battery on the field. On the other hand, those Eldar D-cannons and vibro-cannons with their special rules look very cool and alien to me, although it seems that a good bombardment by griffons or basilisks outperforms those high-tech weapons...
Holo-fields on fire prisms seem cool, too - although good, old AV14 on Leman Russes is still more safe (granted, only the front armour is better). Hard choice there, too.
Wave serpents seem superior to chimeras in many aspects, it seems, thought they are, of course, far more expensive. Where one serpent is wrecked, there might be quite a gap in the army's orchestra, while where one chimera explodes, there will be hopefully two others to take it's place...

Choices, choices!

Well, if your looking at individuality and personality, Go for a IG 'mercenary' legion - dark, dirty, rough... and able to fit both IG loyalist or IG traitors depending on how you want to run things!

Check this blog from INfiltrate http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/246515.page

This is win, and full of character. INfiltrate is primarily doing this as a Traitor Guard, but as it lacks the 'chaos spikes' etc, it could easily be a Merc or Loyalist legion.

I think Guard lets you get more creative with conversions too - you can use bodies from the Fantasy empire etc armies as well. Maybe consider mixing Catachan/cadian arms with chaos mauraders for a feral planet guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, for your bacon army, use Pig Iron heads, and go with a boar/hog/swine theme when naming your units.

that'll do pig, that'll do.

darkkt: Those traitor guardsmen look sweet! However, I'm not sure "mercenary" would be my preferred style. I most definitely would want my IG to be loyalist and while they might be battered and weathered and exhausted-looking, I want to keep some of the glory of the Imperial Guard beneath it. I'm just thinking of these stories of POW officers who kept shaving every day, even if their clothes were so darn filthy that no shave would be able to make them look "clean" in total. So I probably would go for mainly normal cadian models, give them pretty (but camouflaged) uniforms and tanks and then start to partially weather them, especially the chimeras who have to drive the soldiers around 24/7.

I have to admit, at the beginning of this thread I was rather steering in the direction of the IG, however, the more I read about Eldar and occupy myself with possible army lists and what they can do...the more I can't decide for one of them.

IyandenWarhost wrote:Bacon, most of their units can carry powerfists or thunder hammers. They are also very easy to paint, and can have ham for heavy support. Also, some basic bacon troops can take care of those annoying transports with the Sizzle Missile launcher. ONly thing? Tyranids love bacon, and they will eat them up, and with the swine flu rule, they might stall in the middle of a game.

EPIC LULZ!! I'm loving all the Bacon jokes here.

Witzkatz wrote:It seems that I really have to consider bacon as my main army. Would have to look out for those flamers and meltas of course, don't want to get my whole army fried on turn 1...

More Lolz! You people crack me up.........

Eldar is an army for the experienced player.
I'd start with IG and consider Eldar as a possible 2nd army.

IG. Hordes upon hordes of IG!

The bacon jokes pure win but I'll try to respond seriously.

Whenever anyone asks me about starting a new army, I always ask, “Which army do you enjoy painting?”.

I ask because you’ll most likely spend more time modeling/painting than actually playing. Judging by your responses on painting, I say go guard. Just keep in mind it’s a horde army, so you’ll be doing LOTS of painting. You’ll also need some good transport cases since lugging around 200 mini’s plus five tanks can be a logistical challenge.

Thanks for your answers!

wuestenfux: I agree that Eldar look like an army that needs more experience to be played effectively than IG. However, I think it's just this that could become a nice challenge.

I just realized that Eldar don't really field soldiers. They field expert martial artists, when I look at the fluff. (Eldar ritually putting on masks when training and going to combat and putting them down afterwards sounds like eastern martial arts dojo rituals with meditation at beginning and end to me.) IG on the other side is the one army that really fields normal soldiers like we today on earth are used to.

So, I'm asking myself the question: Do I want to play basically trained soldiers with flashlight, mere humans, trying to do the best they can - or do I want to play expert martial artists, training for decades or centuries in their aspect?

I think the answer is around "both", otherwise I wouldn't have this poll. However, I think I could cope better with losing with IG, because then they bravely tried to fight, but, being just humans, they lost. On the other hand, losing with Eldar feels more like "We have warriors who fought before most of the opponent's army was BORN and still they lose? How the feth did they feth up?!". You see, while I don't expect much from an imperial guardsmen, I'd probably expect very much from trained aspect warriors.

Therefore, this could be a slight argument into the direction of IG, it would be easier to cope with lost battles for me, maybe.

Postscriptum at voidfiend: That's the problem, even when it comes to painting I have some problems deciding. With IG I could try a nice uniform scheme that would probably be easy to paint after a while and then I could try weathering. However, this might be boring in comparison to the challenge of painting every squad of aspect warriors in their different, flashy aspect colors. I'm not really decided about that question, you see.

Postpostscriptum: However, I have to admit that I feel more confident in painting some nice guardsmen than nice aspects. Those flashy colours seem less forgiving than Catachan Green/Graveyard Earth combo fatigues. Althought, that might be the interesting thing, you know...

If you are new to the game, I would start with guard. Eldar aren't really a beginner's army, as they require perfect military coordination. That said, I did start playing as Eldar. They are, in fact, the only army I have. I also lost the first 50 games of 40k I played before I figured out how to really play Eldar. After that, it was mostly draws and wins.

Thanks for your post!

While being far newer than most of the dakkaites here, I presume, I'm not sure I'd agree I'm really new to the game. I used my AoBR marines with some add-ons in 500pts games against IG, Tau, Nids, Orks and CSM, adding up to...don't know, around a dozen games, I guess. However, you might be right that this is not enough to successfully start playing Eldar. On the other side, it might be a needed challenge. I think I will really try to playtest Eldar in the next few days so I can see how much I feth up with them.

Well, if you plan to playtest Eldar soon, post an army list for review.

For your interest: I posted my first Eldar army list in the army list forum, so you can help me optimize it a bit before further playtesting. It won its first round, though.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/253965.page

Bacon, i was seriously hungry when i did this poll

I'd go tyrandids, tho its not one of your main choices there, intersting back story, great battle force (pretty much a 500-750 point army right there), lots of theme options (horde list, mass MC list, leaping list, all genestealers, and more!). completely customisable.

only downsides ive encountered are the time it takes to paint the army, gaunts are a pain in the ass for movement, very little ranged power (str8 ordiance weapons may look strong, but the new scatter rules and nids low bs mean graeter scatter distances, and no good way of dealing with av 14 at range without getting 900 glancing hits).

some advantages are in dawn of war missions and other missions where you can deploy outside 18" away, they usualy have the advantage of numbers and the possibility of a first turn charge.

carnifex are a great unit they can cost as little as 101 points and as much as 250.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:If you are new to the game, I would start with guard. Eldar aren't really a beginner's army, as they require perfect military coordination. That said, I did start playing as Eldar. They are, in fact, the only army I have. I also lost the first 50 games of 40k I played before I figured out how to really play Eldar. After that, it was mostly draws and wins.

Fixed! Those templars still give you...problems. When Dave starts saying you're winning consistently, you can change it back.

Thanks for ýour answer!

ManwithIronHands: While I find tyranids interesting - and my girlfriend likes them - I don't think I would like them for a long-time period. From the feeling, I think they are a bit like orks, but with even less charachter - just a horde out for devastation, destruction and eating planets away. No individual personality due to hive mind and all that. I think I would prefer an army with heroic officers or warlocks I can relate better to.

Although I'd be intersted in painting nids - I think they look rather cool.

At the moment, the poll is 50/50 IG/Eldar (and a great advantage for bacon)...and I still can't decide. It's the same problem as with Diablo II years ago - I start a character, find it interesting, but then the OTHER characters seem more interesting, so I start one of those, ending up with 6 characters, no one having advanced further than maybe Act II. ´

I could let a die throw decide what to buy, but that's...that's not satisfying I think. It avoids making the decision myself.

I would suggest imperial guard; I've heard they are more fun to play than eldar, and the fact that bacon wouldn't prove much of an army.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

Exarch_Nektel wrote:If you are new to the game, I would start with guard. Eldar aren't really a beginner's army, as they require perfect military coordination. That said, I did start playing as Eldar. They are, in fact, the only army I have. I also lost the first 50 games of 40k I played before I figured out how to really play Eldar. After that, it was mostly draws and wins.

Fixed! Those templars still give you...problems. When Dave starts saying you're winning consistently, you can change it back.

feth you. There are wins against his guard, too. But yeah, "and wins" was just my ego.

Eldar are more metal and can be more expensive and you need to use some more advanced tactics to win. You have mentioned why type of eldar army you were thinking, just eldar in general? mech eldar? wraithloards and avatars?

Gaurd are a little more basic and just got a brand new codex so that is always a plus.

I would eldar just because your friend has Imperial guard, and if your other friend has tau. Its always nice to mix things up

Witzkatz wrote:It's the same problem as with Diablo II years ago - I start a character, find it interesting, but then the OTHER characters seem more interesting, so I start one of those, ending up with 6 characters, no one having advanced further than maybe Act II.

same reason why I had 10 lvl 80 wow characters and 4 2000+ point 40k armies, that bug hits us all. I know people with 1000 point+ armies of all the races.

Ever given chaos a thought, ive seen alot of very successful chaos armies (ive even lost to a few). that and it can be an excuse to start a chaos deamons army as well. so you can get 2 armies with alot of very intersting backround and such, you can even take your existing marines and make them red scars (a chaos facton made up of marines who have gone traitor after the mass heresy). alot of interesting unit choices and character options.